SGOTM 08 - Fifth Element

[WastinTime]

Seems like a good plan Culdeus. I tried it and I can't quite figure it out. You say you work the minedGH 8 turns (5 to pop borders + 3 to mine the pig) then work the minedPig only 1 turn and grew to size 2? That's not possible. You must have been working the Grass/Forest.

So I tried that and I could only get t74 oracle if I put the city ON the marble...no time for a quarry, our 3rd city out is too late for that. I also had to mine the PH, not the GH to get that extra hammer.

So mining the Pigs was a clever idea, but the plan I outlined will also get us Oracle on t74, and then we have a pasture and size 3 city instead of size 2.

 

[culdeus]

Culdeus, build a quarry means you give for certain another seafood is in Marble city (Carrara?) BFC.
If not, we can settle it ON the marble and send a worker there to build a workshop after MC.

No, not certain, but galley will make it down there and orbit the island prior to picking up the settler. And settling on the marble will speed the oracle up for sure. Just not sure it's worth it. I guess if the sea resource was exactly 1S of the center of the island or 1SE then we've got to weigh the options vis-a-vis the oracle goal. Odds are it will be out of reach from the marble settle spot by design. Just a hunch on my part.

Yeah, hmm. Now thinking about this more. It does matter where the sea resource(s) is/are to some extent. I can see the beauty of having 3 in reach with a settled marble vs. 2 in reach without vs. 1 in reach without. Might world build a clam or something 1S and settle the marble and see what happens. That would have to push the oracle date back towards the t72 timeframe.

 

[berserks01]

I'm thinking fire both scientist to get the settler out in 3 like WT said.

I might rehire them during the galley build, I might not. Then another settler after the galley and have the galley loop the marble island during 2nd settler build. The scout will continue scouting west.

However, I was thinking of turning the WB east/southeast instead. We already know that Shaka is west, it doesn't make sense to send both "scouts" west. East/southeast might yield another AI meeting though.

Research-wise, we've already agreed to go Priesthood after Poly, followed by Code of Law right? So I'm not going to deviate from that.

I can play tonite, but will wait for input/comments and will play tomorrow night instead.

 

[WastinTime]

The galley can scout east/se after the settler dropoff.

If you want any chance of making t73, or t74, I think you have to rush the galley and 3rd settler (i.e. no scientists) so we get marble asap. Unless culdeus would like to explain how he will get us to t72. I don't see that.

berserks...are you thinking of Pasture or Mine for the Pigs?

 

[berserks01]

Hmmm .... actually, after looking back through our posts, I can't seem to find the dot map that was agreed upon for city placements. Have we finalized on the city placements yet? If we have, I must have missed it.

Here are my thoughts on city placements, missing is the marble city of course.

Blue dot is city #2, marble will be city #3, and purple will be city #4.

If city 2 is where I have it, then I would Pasture the Pigs. We can chop the plains hill to speed up Oracle a little then mine it while working the Pig pasture for faster growth. I'd mine a grass hill before settling so we can work it while pasturing the pigs.

Thoughts?

 

[culdeus]

t74 for a settled marble city 4 is probably the fastest. I see that now the limiting factor will not actually be the production, but CoL in this scenario. I think I have an accurate test game to work off now. My other one was off on a couple of things including having the wrong type tiles in some places leading to a much earlier slingshot. I wish copy+paste worked for this.

Lets do it. At least get something that floats down under the island.

 

[WastinTime]

Actually, it is still all about production. Even without working scientists and heavily delaying our academy, we still get CoL and math in time.

 

[Mesix]

Hmmm .... actually, after looking back through our posts, I can't seem to find the dot map that was agreed upon for city placements. Have we finalized on the city placements yet? If we have, I must have missed it.

Here are my thoughts on city placements, missing is the marble city of course.

Blue dot is city #2, marble will be city #3, and purple will be city #4.

If city 2 is where I have it, then I would Pasture the Pigs. We can chop the plains hill to speed up Oracle a little then mine it while working the Pig pasture for faster growth. I'd mine a grass hill before settling so we can work it while pasturing the pigs.

Thoughts?

Actually, we can't chop the Oracle because the general consensus was that BW was a waste of time so we didn't research it.

In response to the talk of firing the scientists, we have to be careful that we have enough reserch to get the prereqs for CS before the Oracle is finished. I don't think this is possible unless we work the two scientists in the capitol.

 

[BLubmuz]

Berserks, your dot map is what we're thinking about, correct.
You surely must fire the scientists to have the settler ready in 3 turns, then you can use 1 and max production for the galley, then max food for the marble settler, while keep 1 scientist.
Mine pigs is a waste, with pastured pigs the city will grow fast to 3 and will be ready to finish the Oracle. IIRC in my test i didn't started, but we can start Oracle as first build. In case we not arrive with tech, we can temporarily switch to a library, otherwise is OK.

Good luck, Bers

 

[berserks01]

Alright. I've got it for tonite then.

 

[WastinTime]

@mesix, @Blub,

You both indicate that getting to math is a concern. Have you done any tests? Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but research is not the bottleneck. Even hiring 1 scientist after the settler will probably cause a 1-2 turn delay in the Oracle construction. I'm fine with that because our research is sped up nicely, but just realize that you're talking about something like t71 Math, t75 oracle. There is a slightly larger risk that we lose the Oracle. Again, I'm fine either way, whatever berserks feels is best. Just reporting my test results.

 

[BLubmuz]

WT, i assume your numbers are well tested.

So we can probably try to fire again both scientists during the "marble settler" production.

This would speed the Oracle build a bit, maybe 2 turns.

 

[berserks01]

Started off by firing both scientists, and the settler will come out in 3 turns. Sent the worker to mine the grasshill.

St. Augustine says we're the least powerful civ, while Shaka is mediocre.

Spoiler :

Priesthood came in, Code of Law next.

Spoiler :

Settled Yasodharapura on blue spot the same turn the grasshill is mined. (Though in hindsight, I should've renamed that city to an easier to remember name.) Start building the Oracle immediately.

Spoiler :

While waiting for the border pop, I sent the worker to pre-mine the plains hill though I only got 1 turn in before having to send him to the pigs just as the border pops.

The GW is built somewhere.

Spoiler :

This indicates that Shaka has settled his second city 1W of the rice.

Spoiler :

Galley done, settler next. I decided to keep the 2 scientists fired for these reasons:
1. With 2 scientists hired the settler takes 7 turns to complete, we save 2 turns with them fired.
2. The Oracle still takes 34 turns to complete when the galley was done. We need to get that marble city up asap to help speed up the Oracle.

Not far from Shaka's border, we met Joao II.

Spoiler :

He asked for OB the next turn. I don't see any reason to turn him down, so I agreed.

Spoiler :

1 turn before the 2nd settler is due, I was able to re-hire 1 scientist and still have him come out the next turn.

Spoiler :

Here's an overview of the scouted land. Notice the 2nd fish on the northern island.

Spoiler :

Pigs due in 2 turns, the worker should finish mining the plains hill then hook up the phants for more .

Game log

Spoiler :

Turn 50, 2000 BC: You have discovered Priesthood!

Turn 54, 1840 BC: Yasodharapura has been founded.

Turn 55, 1800 BC: The Great Wall has been built in a far away land!

Turn 58, 1680 BC: The borders of Yasodharapura have expanded!

>>THE SAVE<<

 

[BLubmuz]

Good one Bers, and good report, too.

Just please, next time remember to post the autolog.

You probably missed it, but we decided to rename city 2 Parma (for the ham, you know). Anyway next player can simply go in the city screen and double click the name to rename it.

Is the galley already bordering the marble island?

WT, if Sweeta doesn't post a got it in 24h you can swap, if you like.

 

[berserks01]

Good one Bers, and good report, too.

Just please, next time remember to post the autolog.

You probably missed it, but we decided to rename city 2 Parma (for the ham, you know). Anyway next player can simply go in the city screen and double click the name to rename it.

Is the galley already bordering the marble island?

WT, if Sweeta doesn't post a got it in 24h you can swap, if you like.

The galley just arrive on the side bordering the marble island. The settler can be loaded onto the galley the turn it pops, which is the next turn.

I've never played with the autolog on before, so I forgot. Sorry. Will remember next time.

 

[Mesix]

It looks like we are off to a good start. Hopefully the Oracle CS Slingshot pulls through.

What are the plans after the Oracle?

Are we going to build the Pyramids in the capitol?

When are we going to introduce Shaka to the working end of an axe or sword?

 

[WastinTime]

In my games, Shaka, got the Mace in the face, no swords.

There are many small details on your TS berserks that were handled very nicely. Great job. Hiring that 1 scientist for 1 turn will end up producing the academy 1 turn early.

I see we did not find any huts/money. We're only running 90% research. I like to have some cash for random events, but we may not be able to afford that. Once we plant the marble city, our research will go down to 80% and math could be late.

Now that we've met Joao, I'd like to get Alphabet and trade for BW, IW, Pottery, etc.
Then chop like mad to get Lighthouse, GLH, Pyramids in that order.

 

[Sweetacshon]

Yep, I can take it. It was a long weekend in Oz, so sorry I couldn't contribute. Well played, Berserks! I have the save, and will have a look over it in the next few hours.

Re: techs post maths - I assume we want to get alpha and trade for BW (even tho we only know 2 AI), or do we make sure of it and grab BW after maths(/CS) in case we need to chop for the oracle?

 

[MacBalt]

Apologies for being MIA for so long. Work is going from bad to insane though, and I can't honestly say I've been able to keep up with the discussion here. Better put me on the bench BLub -- at least for a while. If things slow down I would like to be able to jump back in later and take a turnset or two, but until I can find time to run my own tests I just don't think I ought to be allowed to mess with this one. You all are doing some great planning and I'd hate to blunder in and mess it all up.

Maybe I could take a pass or two for now and see what things look like later?

 

[Sweetacshon]

OK, I've had a look at the save. It seems to me we can have math and the oracle appear on turn 75. By the looks of things, we might be able to get CoL a turn earlier by going to 100% for a turn, but I'm not sure if that will save a turn on maths. This all hinges on settling on the marble, and mining a second grass hill.

I can play whenever the team says go, but will leave at least 24 hrs for anyone to shoot holes in the plan.

Plan:

Cities
Fifth - settler > warrior > worker > warior > settler (max sci. after turn 63)
Parma - oracle (work pigs > gh, pigs > 2 x gh, pigs)

Units
Scout - continues exploration
wb - heads north
galley - transports, then heads east
settler - on marble (will pause TS if extra seafood)

Diplomacy
none planned​

See the attachment for more detail. Do you want me to play til 75?