SGOTM 08 - Fifth Element

BLubmuz · Nov 2, 2008

I guess we can't avoid Sweeta's distractions.

Not a big mistake, anyway.

Why 10 turns? i've seen it was an exchange, not a demand.
No need to wait in case of normal trades.

Is it not better to wipe Shaka before start with J.?

I don't like a chance of attack when we'll be with all our forces in the West.

Usually i never use a GG for a combat unit: the risk to lost it is too high, i lost some combat with over 97% chances.
We must choose between another super healer (a spear can be good, it will upgrade to rifle or a chariot, if we like the 2 moves) or a military instructor.

Go on, WT, but be fast, we're waiting too much between TSs.

berserks01 · Nov 2, 2008

You can settle the GG for 5exp cats. With the amount of war we're looking at, we should be able to generate at least another GG soon.

WastinTime · Nov 2, 2008

Combat and experience promos don't do much for the mace. They can all get CR 1,2,3 pretty easily (just 10 exp), so I don't like a GG on a mace. I would not even consider a maceman unless he was already 17 exp to get to 37 instantly. Once we have a level 6, it's true that even if he dies, we can build WP, correct?

Looks like we already have 3 agreeable to instructor. Sadly we have 1 cat and a couple on the way in different cities.

dutchfire · Nov 2, 2008

Once we have a level 6, it's true that even if he dies, we can build WP, correct?

Yes it is.

WastinTime · Nov 2, 2008

Tech:
What next after Edu? Do we all see the value of StateProp? Are we planning Free Communism?
If so, then PPress is next I think.

Cities
Note: anyone starting an observ (if not really close to finishing) will switch to Univ ASAP

5th - observ, univ
Parma - observ, univ
Marbles - lh, gran, univ, observ
Eng - military, univ
Stoney - observ, univ
FarCanal- Harbor, university
Ulundi - forge, courthouse, university, observ
Nobamba - barracks, military

workers: Cottage around the capitol(still) and Ulundi. Time to consider a few workshops soon with communism coming.

war Plan B: Since the maces have not left yet, clean up Shaka first. Save J for next TS. Reason: J's cities will be expensive. Communism should come in time to let us keep his cities. This also lets the cats catch up the army, so we lose less maces workin on J.

Raze: Ondini

Spy: What do I do with that? scout J?

Missionaries : caravel--I'll drop off #1 and have him go meet HRE, then pick up the other 2.

trades: Get all the happy resources, maybe some gold for a health resource. I'd like to take Aest+80 for Compass (Gandhi).

BLubmuz · Nov 2, 2008

WT, your plan seems good... maybe too much research buildings, we need some more military.

War: plan B.
Wee can raze the marble city, and in case settle a city on the PH 2W 1S of copper, IIRC.
Do no vassalize Shaka, with only one city he can't help our war effort, and we'll have to live with "we yearn to join our ML" until the end.

Keep the other city if not terribly placed.

Then our army should be on the way to J.

Communism: is SM the prerequisite for it?
We must keep an eye on the tech trades to see if our liberalism race is in danger.
We also need Nationalism, i'd like to build the Taj: one more wonder for us and a GAge, too.

WastinTime · Nov 2, 2008

Agree Vassal would be bad.

SM is prereq. That's fine, we only have 1 monastery and no GLib.

We're going to have a tough time using maces on Gandhi, etc. Rifles beeline right after Communism. That means lots of research buildings. Right after we get 6 Univ and Oxford we can pump out all the military you want. Hopefully rifles come faster than we think.

With Astron, we now have 4x, quadrupled! our beakers in the last 20 turns.
This was a key tech. 10 turns ago we were ~17 turns from getting Edu. Now, after switch to Astron, we're ~7 turns from Edu. We didn't even delay 1 turn! It's kinda like we got Astron free.

WastinTime · Nov 2, 2008

Looking ahead on tech:
PPress
SciMethod
Philo (free ?)
Liberalism (Free Communism -- state property)

Guilds (free?)
Banking
Economics
ReplParts
Rifling
GunP (free ?)

Engineering (free)
Chem
Steel

WastinTime · Nov 2, 2008

Don't forget Communism = golden age. I'd like to have Oxford up before that.

WastinTime · Nov 2, 2008

I'd like free Nationalism. It's 2691 beakers. A golden age from Taj will not make up for that, but with the extra hammers I suppose it's close. I'm also not a big fan of the GArtist points. Of course denying Gandhi the GAge would be nice.

BLubmuz · Nov 2, 2008

I guess we must choose the cheapest between SM and Commun.

Are you sure SM is cheaper?

Mesix · Nov 2, 2008

We need at least 1 GA to build Civilized Jewelers for GA points aren't such a big deal. We should figure out which city will be the biggest GP farm and build the National Epic there sooner rather than later. We have several GP left to generate before the end of the game.

For corporate HQ we need 2 GE, 2 GM, 2 GS, and 1 GA. Ideally we should generate as many extra GE as possible to rush wonders at the end too. Currently we have 1 GE in reserve.

WastinTime · Nov 2, 2008

@mesix: I can't verify the Temple of Artemis is in Delhi as you had listed it.

Sweetacshon · Nov 2, 2008

10 turns (and other minor errors) - bah, it just shows my mental state on the weekend. I really should have swapped out.

The GG is fun and useful to add to an attacking unit, and is especially vicious if you have a good tech advantage. However, I'm not sure it is the best use when we can get a city building lvl3s out of the box. Which city?

WastinTime said:
Tech:
What next after Edu? Do we all see the value of StateProp? Are we planning Free Communism?
If so, then PPress is next I think.
Sounds good, although what are the chances of getting philo with Gandhi as the only holder? Also recall we gave him paper, so he is not all that far away from lib. Please be careful to keep an eye on his education progress, so we don't fall into the "underestimating Monarch" trap again. (Just noticed that Blubmuz already said that)

Cities
Note: anyone starting an observ (if not really close to finishing) will switch to Univ ASAP

5th - observ, univ
Parma - observ, univ
Marbles - lh, gran, univ, observ
Eng - military, univ
Stoney - observ, univ
FarCanal- Harbor, university
Ulundi - forge, courthouse, university, observ
Nobamba - barracks, military
Sounds fine, as I am a builder at heart. Just keep a few cats coming ... they will catch up. Just using them to reduce the 40% or so cultural defence will be worth it to save a few maces, not to mention any lb resistance we might find.

workers: Cottage around the capitol(still) and Ulundi. Time to consider a few workshops soon with communism coming.
Yep - no brainer. iirc, the capital is close to ready, but Ulundi still needs some work. It'd be nice to sort that jungle out, tho.

war Plan B: Since the maces have not left yet, clean up Shaka first. Save J for next TS. Reason: J's cities will be expensive. Communism should come in time to let us keep his cities. This also lets the cats catch up the army, so we lose less maces workin on J.
Hmmm.... I guess so, but I was hoping he might do a little more settling down there for us, and give us some cheap xp for the next gen army (rifles, I suppose). He will keep 'til later, but take him out if you feel like it.

Spy: What do I do with that? scout J?
For sure. If he doesn't have points to do anything useful, I find a forward scout, say 5 tiles ahead of our army, invaluable for avoiding excessive damage from counter attacks.Probably not an issue in this case, tho.

trades: Get all the happy resources, maybe some gold for a health resource. I'd like to take Aest+80 for Compass (Gandhi).
Not that I'm against it, but to what end?

WastinTime · Nov 3, 2008

WT: I'd like to take Aest+80 for Compass (Gandhi).
Sweeta: Not that I'm against it, but to what end?

I believe we can get our hands on Lit or Drama (or at least see how those techs are coming along.) If we can get one of those, we could research Music in 2 turns. (free GA)

Sweetacshon · Nov 3, 2008

Fair enough. Compass shouldn't aid G much anyway. I'm not certain on the war. Is the consensus to take out Shaka now?

BLubmuz · Nov 3, 2008

Sweetacshon said:
Fair enough. Compass shouldn't aid G much anyway. I'm not certain on the war. Is the consensus to take out Shaka now?

With the land at his disposal, he can't settle interesting cities.
Wipe him now, then we can also consider to take (or raze) the barb city SE of his capital (the one we can partially see borders from Stone). There should be a couple resources.

Yes, let's trade for Aest. dunno if too late for the Music race (can we have Joe Petrucci for it?)

berserks01 · Nov 3, 2008

Marbles would benefit greatly with the Globe Theatre there ... no :mad:

with

WastinTime · Nov 3, 2008

berserks01 said:
Marbles would benefit greatly with the Globe Theatre there ... no with

Or Ulundi.

WastinTime · Nov 3, 2008

TS complete

save

Everything went very smoothly. I was able to get Edu in only 5 turns and did not spend a ton of gold to do it. I chopped/slaved 6 universities. Oxford is only ~5 turns away. Printing Press in. We could have Liberalism in ~7 (free SciMeth) or gamble on Communism. Either way we should research up to 1 turn from Lib and then decide.

Our entire focus can now go to military. We need to figure out how to reach domination in 80-90 turns (man time flies on normal speed.) I'm worried we can't move that fast.

I couldn't declare war on Shaka for 4 turns. Then the war took 5 turns (instead of 3) because he planted a 3rd city down south (which was auto-razed). Troops are heading back to J. No casualties.

I posted a couple signs on the map. NOTE: Joao has 3 units outside his borders we need to clean up. I marked their general direction. I also saw a crossbow, so we'll want to swiftly take out his iron. We may need a short, but peaceful, military build-up period.

autolog:

Spoiler :

log:

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SGOTM 08 - Fifth Element

HoF Quattromaster

Obviously Very Confused

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HoF Quattromaster

Obergruppenführer

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In the foetal position

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In the foetal position

HoF Quattromaster

Obviously Very Confused

Deity

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