SGOTM 08 - Fifth Element

berserks01 · Nov 20, 2008

I agree on attaching the GG, but as a super medic. If we want to achieve our ~250 turns victory, we'll need 2 sods so we can move faster through the cities.

I picture it working like this: 1 sod takes a city, and stop there to rest/heal/defend for a turn or two. The 2nd sod continues on and takes the next city, then it stays there to rest/heal/defend. By that time the 1st sod is ready to take the 3rd city, and so on. Or, just send them in 2 directions. Either way, we'll mow through the AIs quicker.

culdeus · Nov 20, 2008

berserks01 said:
I agree on attaching the GG, but as a super medic. If we want to achieve our ~250 turns victory, we'll need 2 sods so we can move faster through the cities.

I picture it working like this: 1 sod takes a city, and stop there to rest/heal/defend for a turn or two. The 2nd sod continues on and takes the next city, then it stays there to rest/heal/defend. By that time the 1st sod is ready to take the 3rd city, and so on. Or, just send them in 2 directions. Either way, we'll mow through the AIs quicker.

There are still a few chariots hanging around....I think.

Mesix · Nov 20, 2008

Yes, there are a few chariots. Attaching a GG will allow us to make a Super Medic with 2 movement thatn can be upgraded to a knight for free.

MacBalt · Nov 20, 2008

Mesix said:
The Galleons are in place to take troops to Delhi ASAP!!!

We will take 2 of Joao's (Lagos and Coimbra) citis in the next TS. Braga should fall shortly after that.

My point is that either Braga or Lagos (or both) will fall a lot faster if we ferry troops there now instead of waiting multiple turns for our troops to move overland through enemy territory. That doesn't mean the galleons won't be available for carting everyone to Deli too. :crazyeye:

MacBalt · Nov 20, 2008

BLubmuz said:
Yes tell me which specialists i have to use.
I suppose some merchants in 5th, we should have good chances for a GM.

Yes, I think we should change the engineer specialist in fifth to a merchant. We ought to try to get that great merchant in fifth.

Mesix said:
Yes, there are a few chariots. Attaching a GG will allow us to make a Super Medic with 2 movement thatn can be upgraded to a knight for free.

This sounds like the best way to go.

BLubmuz · Nov 21, 2008

I'm against a super-fighter GG, it's too risky. Also i can't see much benefits in 2 super medics. In case an axe can be upgraded.
2 Xp in 5th can be better in the mid term, but i'll wait to see more comments.
Agree about the Democracy for Gandhi. But even if he revolts to Emancipation after we'll wipe him we'll have no penalty. :evil:

I guess the others AI are far from Demo, right?

berserks01 · Nov 21, 2008

BLubmuz said:
I'm against a super-fighter GG, it's too risky. Also i can't see much benefits in 2 super medics. In case an axe can be upgraded.
2 Xp in 5th can be better in the mid term...?

The point of the super medic is to bring the experienced troops back to the war front faster and not waste time healing. That way they get more experience faster, getting them more promotions faster.

Having said that, I'm ok with settling him as well

BLubmuz · Nov 21, 2008

I got the save open.
First impression is that i need all my TS to wipe Joao.
Coimbra can fall in the inherited turn, or wait 2 turns for the 3 maces.
I think this is more safe. Then Braga.
There's a stack of rifles with 0 moves, that can be joined by a mixed stack of 3, to take Lagos in 3 turns.

After this we can use galleons to move faster south: land 1SW of Guimaraes, then to move to raze Braganza. For Faro galleons can't help much, i'll see. BTW Faro is settled on furs, good for us. we can also build a fort 3W of it, if needed.

What about take Numidian with some fresh troops once we have some?
Easy XP, less barbs around, some money.

Then my old point about a city W of Ulundi: 2W1S of copper on the plains hill, to avoid that spot be settled after some AI gets Astro.

Farm until the rice of FarCanal will be irrrigated?
Build a theater in 5th, so no more unhappiness (until we DoW G.) and we can run 2 merchants.
Next GP is due in 24 turns in 5th, less running 2 specialist, and we can hope for a GM.

Not much to add, but the Indian war will start in next TS.

edit: once we get Coimbra we'll have wine and incense, so by the end of the war with Joao we'll have 3 happy resources.
If we attack G. with 2 SoDs, clearly the main will head to Dehli, no less than 5 galleons. The 2nd one can raze Hyderabad, just to warm-up, then head to Varanasi.

If you want another Super medic, there's a CR1 mace garrisoning Nongoma with one promotion to set (6/5). Attaching to a GG he will arrive to 26: C1 and the 3 medics (10/17/26).
Or we have a spear in Oporto with 3/2, also a candidate for super medic.
This last will cost a fortune to upgrade otherwise, but the mace can fight some battle, being already CR1.

I can play tonight (9-10 hours from now) if i have enough comments.

Mesix · Nov 21, 2008

BLubmuz said:
I'm against a super-fighter GG, it's too risky. Also i can't see much benefits in 2 super medics. In case an axe can be upgraded.
2 Xp in 5th can be better in the mid term, but i'll wait to see more comments.
Agree about the Democracy for Gandhi. But even if he revolts to Emancipation after we'll wipe him we'll have no penalty.
I guess the others AI are far from Demo, right?

You get attached to your units easily?

Having a combat GG reduces risk to the combat forces. Sure it is riskier to have a GG that attacks then to have one that sits back like a middle manager observing. Having an additional attacking unit with CR3, Leadership, and potentially 6 Combat stars in the future increases the effectiveness of the combat force. We may eventually lose him in combat, but the effectiveness that he adds while alive is worth the risk.

If we are going to split our forces into 2 stacks then I agree with the idea to have a 2nd medic, preferrably with 2 movement (upgraded chariot). If we are going to have one SOD for the majority of our conquest or keep them close enough together that wounded troops can rally in a recently conquered city with the medic then I think a combat GG is more effecitve.

I do not think that is is prudent to settle the GG. We already have a GG in our HE city. Very soon we are going to be shifting our military focus to the other continent and then the majority of our current cities will be refocused on building infrastructure and wonders as they become available. Once the war heats up on the other continent, we should get another GG who can settle in one of the high production cities on the other continent to churn out experienced troops.

Mesix · Nov 21, 2008

A couple of thoughts on future research.

After Steel we should continue toward Railroad (after Physics for the free GS of course) to get Mining Inc. The HQ for Mining Inc. should go in the city that has Wall Street and Mining Inc. execs should be sent to all the cities that are going to be tooled up to build wonders. We need at least seven cities to build the required national wonders. At some point our war mongoring will limit the usefullness of foreign trade and Corporations (especially Mining Inc.) can become a powerful tool in the late game. We should time the civic switch out of State Property with the switch to Pacificism. If we can get another GA at about turn 220 or so it would work nicely.

We should try to prioritize Military Tradition and Assembly Line so that West Point and the Pentagon can contribute exp to our troops. We will probably want West Point to be built either in the same city as the Heroic Epic or sonewhere on the other continent.

WastinTime · Nov 21, 2008

Mesix said:
Yes, there are a few chariots. Attaching a GG will allow us to make a Super Medic with 2 movement that can be upgraded to a knight for free.

Agree with 2nd super medic on a chariot.

Which reminds me. Let's attack with our riflemen/supermedic (on a sure thing). He's almost ready to get the movement promotion. Blub, make that happen this TS.

WastinTime · Nov 21, 2008

I like the idea of MilTrad before Physics if we don't see anyone competing for the GS. We get calvary with MilTrad.

I'm not excited about Mining Inc. Don't be fooled into thinking corporations are a way to make money. Even with WallSt. And the money lost from leaving StateProp will be enormous. A forbidden palace does not come close to the same effect.

War: Mesix is leading us in the right direction. War with Gandhi ASAP. Do not waste time south of Lisbon. I know ya'll never like it when I suggest this, but Peace and a free city are the way to go. You can take Coimbra/Lagos/Braga in exactly 4 turns and then trade peace for one of his cities (probably Faro) or just peace. We can plan a 2nd war w/Joao that lasts 1 turn...instead of dragging out another war 10 turns longer than it should.

WastinTime · Nov 21, 2008

Make sure our new supermedic has 6 Exp minimum, and that it has medic I already. I like the 3 movement we can get with 26 exp.

BLubmuz · Nov 21, 2008

OK, a chariot SM, free upgrade to knight.
I guess you're right about the Portuguese war, once took Coimbra, Braga and Lagos, i'll see what he offers for peace, but we can always use a couple galleons to speed up our movement and finish him later.

So, i hope to have some galleon loaded for G. for the end of my TS.

Mining Inc is a great boost for production, but surely you spend money with corps, not the opposite.

Anyway, planning to take a good number of cities in the other continent, we're tied to SP, or is the economic ruin.

But the FP in Dehli can be useful anyway.

Goin' to play, now.

BLubmuz · Nov 21, 2008

TS played, autolog

Spoiler :

Bad news: G. has Astro!!!
He settled a city near Ulundi, close to the spot i wish to settle to avoid this.
I can also see some borders in a icy island SW of Lagos.
After proposing capitulation to us, but i took only Guimarães, Joao auto-vassallized to G.

AC has both MT and MS

The good news are that we're building cannons, we have a couple privateers on sailing to the other continent, i upgraded all (2) our caravels to frigates and the CR3 maces.

There's some possible trade: Boudica, AC and G. offer Constitution.

I follow your suggestions, and promoted a chariot to M3, and it's now a knight with 3 moves.

We got 1667g in bank and we're researching MT in 2 @70% -7gpt.

And...

there're 7 (seven) full loaded galleons on the indian border.

More will follow...

BLubmuz · Nov 21, 2008

The save

The in-game log

Spoiler :

I built our cheap theaters in many cities, to avoid unhappiness. I suppose we need them after the indian war will start.

5th is 9 turns away from his GP, and i put 2 merch at work there.

Tried to improve the territory at best, also some MM where needed

For what is worth, our score and power graphs are vertical!!!

Go berserk, honour your nick!!!

berserks01 · Nov 21, 2008

I'll take a look at the save tonite and post some sort of plan.

BLubmuz · Nov 21, 2008

I propose to build a settler, probably in Ulundi to settle a city 2W1S of copper W of Ulundi.
There's some Rifle in Ulundi, ready to take that indian city, now defended by 2 knights.
Also, better keep some rifle for defense in our main cities, often the AI tries amphibious attacks in BtS.

Better discuss the trade possibilities before DoW.

Before land the troops, take a look at Dehli, and if (i don't think it's the case) very lightly defended, try an amphibious attack.
If not, i'd land on the hill NE of Dehli.
Also, there's an island with a small city S of Dehli: evaluate if we can take it easily, or it will cut the route to our mainland.
In case land our Rifle medic, 2maces and 2 knights there, to raze it, it got horses.

I built the privateers 'cause they are almost as powerful as frigates, good for galleon attack. Or carracks.

I think a drydock is a good choice in our HE city, maybe after next rifle.

Remember that since Joao is vassal of Gandhi, we're at war with him too.

WastinTime · Nov 21, 2008

ugh, we're still building rifles? Build maces, for CR promos and upgrade them!

WastinTime · Nov 21, 2008

So war weariness will be less cus J will have to declare on us, right? I never pay much attention to WW.

Before we declare war, we need to discuss the dogpile issue. Did gandhi switch to FreeRel? Can we bribe some of them to attack HRE? The AI wouldn't join a 2nd war then, correct? I think a world war is best for us.

SGOTM 08 - Fifth Element

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HoF Quattromaster

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