SGOTM 08 - Fifth Element

Don't forget to try to end the B war by asking for the last city we want for free. Ideally Vienne.

I suppose Pisa is right in the war path. I guess keeping it might be the way to go? I'm still worried about that colony maint. thing.
 
I wouldn't waste time on Camuldonum or Pisa. culture pressure from those should not be significant.
I thought cultural pressure from a capitulated vassal was "turned off" effectively. I mean, not allowed to impose itself on the BFC of one of the "master" civ's cities -- even a captured one.

Am I wrong about this? I think I remember it happening that way in one of the BOTMs, but I can't remember for sure. Should I check it?
 
I agree to stop razing cities, so we'll take only the cities we'll keep.
Camulo probably doesn't have much pressure on Bibracte, maybe we need to take the city west of it.

The main pressure will come from HRE, but this is not a problem, since we soon begin to take them.

If we have enough troops to safely keep the cities and to open 2 fronts, go ahead, split the stacks.
And make good use of the airships.

Balth, long time i don't vassal someone, but IIRC cultural pressure is one of the most important things i considered when i decided to not take vassals.
 
I thought cultural pressure from a capitulated vassal was "turned off" effectively. I mean, not allowed to impose itself on the BFC of one of the "master" civ's cities -- even a captured one.

Am I wrong about this? I think I remember it happening that way in one of the BOTMs, but I can't remember for sure. Should I check it?
It wouldn't hurt to check since I'm pretty sure that cultural pressure happens regardless :crazyeye:
 
I thought angry vassals were guaranteed to vote for you.

Vassals are likely to vote for you. They definately don't have to be pleased. Once they are vasals, their attitude changes due to shared wars and other diplo factors. Razing citis definately doesn't help.
 
It wouldn't hurt to check
Okay, so I checked, and now I think there is really some reason to look into this. Here are two screenshots pulled from autosaves from a recent BTS game. They show the borders for a recently conquered city (BLUE team) and remaining city from a capitulated vassal state (WHITE team). The first shot is from turn 208 and the second is from turn 216 -- after the captured blue city's second (BFC) border expansion. Note that the two tiles that were under white border control in the first screen shot are under blue control in the second, despite the fact that white culture is still at 99% (in the copper tile, at least).

Based on this evidence, I don't think we need to worry about culture encroachment from capitulated (as opposed to voluntary) vassals. Am I missing something?
 

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Nice analysis.

In BTS cities like to demand to be under Vassal control sometims as a popup. Please be careful (everyone) as we play the last few turn sets. One wrong click could cost a city.
 
So should we try to take just Bibracte and nothing else? Focus 100% on conquering all of them. Domination seems harder than conquest at this point.
 
So should we try to take just Bibracte and nothing else? Focus 100% on conquering all of them. Domination seems harder than conquest at this point.

No, I tested this. It gives you tiles to work, but culture pressure will cause the city to revolt again and again, until it finally flips ownership.
 
No, I tested this. It gives you tiles to work, but culture pressure will cause the city to revolt again and again, until it finally flips ownership.
I think we'd probably need to take at least one additional city to force capitulation in the first place. Could we minimize the culture pressure by taking only the closest nearby city(ies) and leaving units in the most extended (or important) cities to prevent revolts? Do we have any units to spare at this point? Can we build some kind of cheap peacekeeping units?
 
I think we'd probably need to take at least one additional city to force capitulation in the first place. Could we minimize the culture pressure by taking only the closest nearby city(ies) and leaving units in the most extended (or important) cities to prevent revolts? Do we have any units to spare at this point? Can we build some kind of cheap peacekeeping units?

No, She'll capitulate now, so we don't "need" any additional. But we will have to do what you suggested, take the nearby cities. I'm not sure that leaving units in a city helps keep it out of revolt. That sounds familiar....like something that worked in Civ III. I think its only culture that matters now.

So I'm still thinking Tolosa, Vienne, Bibracte. Just those 3.
 
I'm not sure that leaving units in a city helps keep it out of revolt. That sounds familiar....like something that worked in Civ III. I think its only culture that matters now.
Your list of cities to take looks good, but I'm sure that stationing troops in a city does help prevent revolts. You can tell, if I remember correctly, by hovering the mouse over the population composition bar on the left side of the city screen. Doing so will produce a pop-up bubble that shows the chance (if any) that city has of going into revolt the next turn. You can tell that military units have some effect by repeatedly checking the bar as you move units into and out of the city. Some units have a greater impact on this than others, but aside from the basic strength and technological "advancedness" of the unit, I don't know how the effect is determined. Also, I've noticed that it can take many units to bring the percentage chance down to zero when the cultural pressure is heavy -- especially in more populated cities (IIRC).
 
I think Camulodunum is a good city to take too. We can split the SOD and sail some troops south while other move west over land. We can probably take all four cities in 1-2 turn sets.
 
I think Camulodunum is a good city to take too. We can split the SOD and sail some troops south while other move west over land. We can probably take all four cities in 1-2 turn sets.

Ok I'll just push towards taking the 3 that are reasonable in my TS 100%. Pisa can wait for a swing back or reinforcements. Should be easy enough.
 
Ok I'll just push towards taking the 3 that are reasonable in my TS 100%. Pisa can wait for a swing back or reinforcements. Should be easy enough.
It looks like we still have open borders with Charley. Don't forget we could send fast cavalry up through the HRE and then down on Vienne to save time -- but you were probably going to do that anyway. (The talk of attack on Pisa has me a bit confused though.)

Also, for the sea landing, why not land on the hill E of the target? It would give us a better defensive position. You might also consider just attacking the "Caduwatzit" city with just one or two rifles directly from the sea. I bet it hasn't got many defenders.

I'm having fun with my graphics program so will attach a completely useless map to make things more confusing. :p

EDIT: Okay, even more fun with a second map. I think maybe we can get all five cities in a reasonable amount of time. Given our unit technology advantage, I see no reason why a handful of Rifles on ships couldn't take both Camulodwhatzit and Gergovia very quickly -- especially if they are, as I expect, only lightly defended. I also think a cavalry force from the north can get Vienne in time to assist in the attack on the capital.
 

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Here are three screenies from cities that are soon going to cause us "revolt" troubles: Lahore, Agra, and Calcutta. You can see the "chance of revolt" pop-up I was talking about. If we put more units in these cities, the chance of revolt will go down, but we may have to station many units in each city to bring the chance down to zero. Anyone have any ideas?
 

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It looks like we still have open borders with Charley. Don't forget we could send fast cavalry up through the HRE and then down on Vienne to save time -- but you were probably going to do that anyway. (The talk of attack on Pisa has me a bit confused though.)

Also, for the sea landing, why not land on the hill E of the target? It would give us a better defensive position. You might also consider just attacking the "Caduwatzit" city with just one or two rifles directly from the sea. I bet it hasn't got many defenders.

I'm having fun with my graphics program so will attach a completely useless map to make things more confusing. :p

EDIT: Okay, even more fun with a second map. I think maybe we can get all five cities in a reasonable amount of time. Given our unit technology advantage, I see no reason why a handful of Rifles on ships couldn't take both Camulodwhatzit and Gergovia very quickly -- especially if they are, as I expect, only lightly defended. I also think a cavalry force from the north can get Vienne in time to assist in the attack on the capital.

I think the worry with the right one is the unseen frigate armada that might lurk to the West. No reason to risk it. The left one is more the PlanA. Not but perhaps 1 turn saved doing a full swing out with the risk of losing a considerable portion of the stack for nothing.
 
I think the worry with the right one is the unseen frigate armada that might lurk to the West. No reason to risk it. The left one is more the PlanA. Not but perhaps 1 turn saved doing a full swing out with the risk of losing a considerable portion of the stack for nothing.
Fair enough (though I didn't mean to suggest sending more than a handful of units by ship). Funny she has Chemistry but hasn't upgraded those longbows in Tulosa. I see one Frigate with a Galleon in view right now. I really doubt she has many more, but you're right, saving a few turns and getting an extra crap city or two aren't worth the risk. You might keep an eye out though and see if a quick window by sea opens to Cadulowhatzit during the main attack.
 
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