SGOTM 08 - Geezers

[erikthecelt]

Nice discussion, I think we have an approach and 2 important goals, CS Sling and Build Henge, so:

Turn Set Plan

Techs Known
Hunting, Mining, AH, BW

Techs Required for CS Sling
Myst, Masonry, Poly, Priest, Writing, Math, CoL.

I plan to include fishing after Myst for growth & exploration.
Build – settler then stop for discussion of city site.
Explore as much as possible – I am going to send the MP to the pig hill for a look around.
Worker will mine copper, then chop for settler.

Given that we are looking at a lot of turns in three months (Alan’s target for completion) I plan to play tomorrow night.

 

[markh]

Techs Required for CS Sling
Myst, Masonry, Priest, Writing, Math, CoL.

Just one word "Plas....", ah no, I meant "Meditation".

Plan sounds good to me.

What about our second city 1N of the NW cows ? It would get the seafood 2N, so we have two food resources in that city.

 

[erikthecelt]

Just one word "Plas....", ah no, I meant "Meditation".

Plan sounds good to me.

What about our second city 1N of the NW cows ? It would get the seafood 2N, so we have two food resources in that city.

Are you asking for meditation instead of Poly? I chose Poly because it opens up ToA.

I don't want to think about the city site until after the settler is ready

 

[markh]

Are you asking for meditation instead of Poly? I chose Poly because it opens up ToA.

I don't want to think about the city site until after the settler is ready

Well, I had a 50-50 chance as both Poly and Med are missing in your order and lost again. Damn.

 

[erikthecelt]

Thanks, it's updated.

Here's the list of GP required for shrines and corporations. We need to keep this in mind so that we can plan the GP we are going to get.

Civilized Jewelers Mass Media GA
Creative Construction Combustion GE
Sid's Sushi Medicine GM
Cereal Mills Refrigeration GM
Aluminum Co Rocketry GS
Standard Ethanol Plastics GS
Mahabodhi Meditation GP
Church of the Nativity Theology GP
Kong Miao CoL GP
Kashi Vishwanath Poly GP
Masjid al-Haram Divine Right GP
Temple of Solomen Montheism GP
Di Miao Philosphy GP

 

[Sam_Yeager]

Turn Set Plan

Techs Known
Hunting, Mining, AH, BW

Techs Required for CS Sling
Myst, Masonry, Poly, Priest, Writing, Math, CoL.

I plan to include fishing after Myst for growth & exploration.
Build – settler then stop for discussion of city site.
Explore as much as possible – I am going to send the MP to the pig hill for a look around.
Worker will mine copper, then chop for settler.

So you're proposing a tech order of Myst, Fishing, Masonry, Poly, Priest, Writing, Math, CoL? We're not going to need Wheel to connect resources such gold & copper for quite a while then?

What about our second city 1N of the NW cows ? It would get the seafood 2N, so we have two food resources in that city.

I am not keen on that location for the following reasons:

• It's surrounded by jungle and we won't have IW for ages.
• It's got hardly any production capability and we're going to want lots of production early on to build wonders.
• 1N of the pigs in the SW is nearer and has better production.
• That site would be better as a GP farm post IW.

EDIT: 1E of the gold might be a possible location as well but I know city overlaps aren't popular.

 

[erikthecelt]

So you're proposing a tech order of Myst, Fishing, Masonry, Poly, Priest, Writing, Math, CoL? We're not going to need Wheel to connect resources such gold & copper for quite a while then?

No, I expect to learn only Myst,Fishing and part of Poly before the settler arrives. What happens after that will depend on the next turn set. That looks like the must have techs for the CS sling plus the fishing that I have chosen to insert into the list

I also plan to explore more in the hope of finding a better city site, which I think should include the pigs and hills to the east of Yas...

 

[Harbourboy]

We are almost the team with the most posts in this game. Go the Geezers!

 

[Sam_Yeager]

No, I expect to learn only Myst,Fishing and part of Poly before the settler arrives. What happens after that will depend on the next turn set. That looks like the must have techs for the CS sling plus the fishing that I have chosen to insert into the list

Ah I see, that makes more sense. You haven't mentioned revolting to slavery but I presume we don't really need it yet. Watch out for that panther!

We are almost the team with the most posts in this game. Go the Geezers!

I can't believe that we've got more posts than MW. Most of their team must be absent at the moment. Or maybe they've agreed their way forward..... Nah, MW post continuously regardless of the subject ..........

 

[erikthecelt]

Slavery is BAD in BTS.

 

[AgedOne]

So you're proposing a tech order of Myst, Fishing, Masonry, Poly, Priest, Writing, Math, CoL? We're not going to need Wheel to connect resources such gold & copper for quite a while then?

No, I expect to learn only Myst,Fishing and part of Poly before the settler arrives. What happens after that will depend on the next turn set. That looks like the must have techs for the CS sling plus the fishing that I have chosen to insert into the list

I just had a play with that tech sequence on the test map. It's a desperately close-run thing to get the Oracle built before someone else builds it, but giving us time to have researched CoL so we get CS. Desperately close! It all happens about turn 85.

So I'm glad we're still giving ourselves the option of revising the list as we proceed.

I would have liked to see wheel in there, too, especially for connecting the copper. We will want axes to keep the barb archers out from around turn 70-80. However, I don't think we can insert wheel into the sequence without paying the price in terms of the CS slingshot.

 

[Sam_Yeager]

I just had a play with that tech sequence on the test map. It's a desperately close-run thing to get the Oracle built before someone else builds it, but giving us time to have researched CoL so we get CS. Desperately close! It all happens about turn 85.

Perhaps it's worth reconsidering whether we absolutely must have Fishing so that we have some leeway for the slingshot?

 

[erikthecelt]

Fishing does many things:
it increases the food supply, so we grow faster
it increases the commerce, so we tech a little faster
it allows us to allocate scientists (after the library)
it lets us whip the Oracle at the end if we need too

 

[Harbourboy]

Surely we must need Fishing....

 

[Sam_Yeager]

Fishing does many things:
it increases the food supply, so we grow faster
it increases the commerce, so we tech a little faster
it allows us to allocate scientists (after the library)
it lets us whip the Oracle at the end if we need too

Surely we must need Fishing....

I'll rephrase that. Perhaps it's worth reconsidering whether we absolutely must have Fishing before CoL so that we have some leeway to build the Oracle and achieve the CS slingshot? If we just want to get CoL or MC from the Oracle then there's no problem slotting in Fishing.

 

[erikthecelt]

Let me be clear, Fishing makes the slingshot easier to achieve.

 

[Sam_Yeager]

Let me be clear, Fishing makes the slingshot easier to achieve.

OK. AgedOne reported that the timescale for getting the CS slingshot is quite tight. I seem to recall that when I tried it a little while ago on the test save I missed out on the Oracle because I was waiting for the required techs to complete before I finished the Oracle.

Is there any other way we can build in some leeway if we keep Fishing or are you saying that keeping in Fishing will actually build in the leeway? Have we decided which of the (very early) wonders we will build ourselves and in what order? For instance may be we could build Stonehenge, GW and then Oracle or perhaps we need to build Stonehenge, Oracle and then GW?

Frankly it seems to me that we need to start firming up on our tech order and city build order. We're already expecting Yaso to build a settler and a WB as well as various wonders. As an aside what will be the impact of our (non connected) second city on our research speed?

 

[Harbourboy]

My gut feel is that the slingshot comes in faster if you have Fishing because of the extra food and commerce. So we're not 'slipping fishing in' - Fishing is a crucial element of hitting the slingshot date.

 

[Sam_Yeager]

My gut feel is that the slingshot comes in faster if you have Fishing because of the extra food and commerce. So we're not 'slipping fishing in' - Fishing is a crucial element of hitting the slingshot date.

Perhaps it's just something about the test save (or my playing ability ). Every time I try a CS slingshot researching techs in the same order as is being suggested here I end up delaying completion of the Oracle waiting for CoL to be finished. Another AI then completes the Oracle when I'm about 5 turns away from getting CoL.

EDIT: Maybe I shouldn't be founding that second city until after the slingshot?

 

[AgedOne]

Perhaps it's just something about the test save (or my playing ability ). Every time I try a CS slingshot researching techs in the same order as is being suggested here I end up delaying completion of the Oracle waiting for CoL to be finished. Another AI then completes the Oracle when I'm about 5 turns away from getting CoL.

This is exactly my experience.
The problem is with the tech speed. This needs to be as high as possible, which is why I would not miss out Fishing, and probably wouldn't miss out the second city (2 cities tech faster than 1, normally).

I would say that we need to emphasise growth and commerce, rather than hammers, during this slingshot, and we need to remain alert and flexible about what we go for - finishing the Oracle before CoL if needs be, as (I assume) getting it is better than missing it.