SGOTM 08 - Gypsy Kings
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Munro
Deity
About the risk of AP loss... we have a privateer that can patrol his one city to ensure no caravel or galleon (which could be hiding a missionary) approachs, and sink any that do.
Without astro, the chance of religion spreading to Joao should be extremely low (and if he stays in theocracy it's effectively zero).
Finally, as a last resort safety net in the extremely unlikely event that joao does get hinduism, can we just create a colony out of stone town and that other city on that island landmass? That would create a new AI that has no hinduism, effectively preventing the religious win altogether.
I think that gives us 3 layers of protection which should be more than enough to continue with our optimal strategy unaltered...
Speaking of which, I strongly prefer going for Gandhi first. He's a much weaker target, has some juicy cities which we can take for our own, and if we vassalize him, it gives us a nice buffer and launching pad for taking on augustus.
Certainly don't need 16 galleons either.. a couple more at most but I think the hammers would be better put into building other troops for the fight with augustus afterwards, since that'll be the limiting factor I think (how long it takes us to build enough troops to crush him quickly). The distance between gandhi and our own landmass is so small that buliding a big fleet of galleons seems like it would be a waste..
Without astro, the chance of religion spreading to Joao should be extremely low (and if he stays in theocracy it's effectively zero).
Finally, as a last resort safety net in the extremely unlikely event that joao does get hinduism, can we just create a colony out of stone town and that other city on that island landmass? That would create a new AI that has no hinduism, effectively preventing the religious win altogether.
I think that gives us 3 layers of protection which should be more than enough to continue with our optimal strategy unaltered...
Speaking of which, I strongly prefer going for Gandhi first. He's a much weaker target, has some juicy cities which we can take for our own, and if we vassalize him, it gives us a nice buffer and launching pad for taking on augustus.
Certainly don't need 16 galleons either.. a couple more at most but I think the hammers would be better put into building other troops for the fight with augustus afterwards, since that'll be the limiting factor I think (how long it takes us to build enough troops to crush him quickly). The distance between gandhi and our own landmass is so small that buliding a big fleet of galleons seems like it would be a waste..
Conquistador 63
Deity
I have to agree with Munro's post above. I think the riskier (but less catastrophic) event are AP resolutions calling to "stop the war against ..." or "return the city X to its righteous owner" or those kind of things, which have never occured to me, but from what I've heard could be pretty annoying if we have to defy.
In any case I think we shouldn't wait for more than the 2 days requested by HW or we risk losing momentum again. I'd like to see aj playing ASAP - at least up to the turn before setting sail towards Gandhi.
In any case I think we shouldn't wait for more than the 2 days requested by HW or we risk losing momentum again. I'd like to see aj playing ASAP - at least up to the turn before setting sail towards Gandhi.
adrianj
Deity
I think as was the orginial plan, Ghandi is the best next target. And we certainly don't need as many troops for it.
So to add to the PPP:
* Sail some airships over to the other continent for recon missions.
* Peace with Joao for his last city - sign OB with him so he has a good chance of getting Confu.
* Send privateer to blockade Joao's trade.
* Tech path still: Steam -> Railroad (for MGs) -> Electricity -> Radio -> Mass Media.
* Amass units at Braga
* Defy annoying AP resolutions - I think we can afford the diplo hit.
Is it worth saving cash to upgrade cuirassiers, cats, muskets, maces and cannons?
Edit: I'll probably play today, within 7 hours of this edit.
So to add to the PPP:
* Sail some airships over to the other continent for recon missions.
* Peace with Joao for his last city - sign OB with him so he has a good chance of getting Confu.
* Send privateer to blockade Joao's trade.
* Tech path still: Steam -> Railroad (for MGs) -> Electricity -> Radio -> Mass Media.
* Amass units at Braga
* Defy annoying AP resolutions - I think we can afford the diplo hit.
Is it worth saving cash to upgrade cuirassiers, cats, muskets, maces and cannons?
Edit: I'll probably play today, within 7 hours of this edit.
Ronnie1
Deity
Sounds solid...play when ready!
adrianj
Deity
I've played up until Railroad and posted the save.
We have a pretty massive army sitting in Braga. However there are only 3 galleons so far - they're taking a while to sail there from Nobamba. It's also fairly short on Rifles, although if we throw a bit of cash at it the axes and spears can be upgraded.
I built a fort near Guimaraes with the idea of having ships go through it. I was very confused when after I had built it the ships weren't allowed through... so I turned the ships around to go the long way. A few turns later Guimaraes' comes out of resistance and the passage is clear. Wasted a bunch of turns though.
All of our airships are on the other continent so we can recon all of Ghandi's lands. He is so weak! Charlemagne actually declared on him 2 turns into my set, with a huge stack of 15+ only a couple of moves away from almost undefended Bombay. And then the AP vote came up to stop the war vs Ghandi. Our vote wasn't worth much, although I voted yes. If anyone is going to take Bombay it's us. The vote succeeded and now Charlemagne is having a go at Boudica.
Joao switched out of Theology to Organised Religion - opening the possibility for him to get Hindu. Our city of Lisbon has become infected - and Pericles has a missionary just arrived in Yaso! Perhaps we should cancel OB with him to eject the missionary.
I razed a barbarian city north of Braga, I captured a barbarian city east of Santarem and I founded a new city by the deer. No losses in the entire set.
We have a pretty massive army sitting in Braga. However there are only 3 galleons so far - they're taking a while to sail there from Nobamba. It's also fairly short on Rifles, although if we throw a bit of cash at it the axes and spears can be upgraded.
I built a fort near Guimaraes with the idea of having ships go through it. I was very confused when after I had built it the ships weren't allowed through... so I turned the ships around to go the long way. A few turns later Guimaraes' comes out of resistance and the passage is clear. Wasted a bunch of turns though.
All of our airships are on the other continent so we can recon all of Ghandi's lands. He is so weak! Charlemagne actually declared on him 2 turns into my set, with a huge stack of 15+ only a couple of moves away from almost undefended Bombay. And then the AP vote came up to stop the war vs Ghandi. Our vote wasn't worth much, although I voted yes. If anyone is going to take Bombay it's us. The vote succeeded and now Charlemagne is having a go at Boudica.
Joao switched out of Theology to Organised Religion - opening the possibility for him to get Hindu. Our city of Lisbon has become infected - and Pericles has a missionary just arrived in Yaso! Perhaps we should cancel OB with him to eject the missionary.
I razed a barbarian city north of Braga, I captured a barbarian city east of Santarem and I founded a new city by the deer. No losses in the entire set.
adrianj
Deity
Session log:
Spoiler :
adrianj
Deity
Autolog:
Spoiler :
IMO we must use the whip to get enough Gelleons fast directly from previous Joao cities. I think we better fight Ghandi first. We also must try to involve Rome in war with Charliemage or Bodica.
We was at 20% land before aj turn set. After pop up of Joao cities we are maybe somewhere around 25% land ad we need 60% +. So we will need to get lot of land of the other continent and to get it fast!
Isn't it now the time to go for Asembly line? Is building factory power plants worth the investment. I don't know. So till the end we have lot of concuest to be done and a pile of expensive wonders to be build (UN, Pentagon, Aifel tower the three modern happy resourses, 6 hospitals + red cross, do we have FP) .
I don't know if i have played relativly soon or not because a lot of time has pass. But IMO i will be able to play during this weekend . Thats why i'm asking for the roster R1.
We was at 20% land before aj turn set. After pop up of Joao cities we are maybe somewhere around 25% land ad we need 60% +. So we will need to get lot of land of the other continent and to get it fast!
Isn't it now the time to go for Asembly line? Is building factory power plants worth the investment. I don't know. So till the end we have lot of concuest to be done and a pile of expensive wonders to be build (UN, Pentagon, Aifel tower the three modern happy resourses, 6 hospitals + red cross, do we have FP) .
I don't know if i have played relativly soon or not because a lot of time has pass. But IMO i will be able to play during this weekend . Thats why i'm asking for the roster R1.
O yea about the AP - we can make it obsolete if we take Mass Media too.
Also as we will take Ghandi cities which are big and with hindu we could take enough votes to stop any resolutions soon. We can also pread hinu in our 2-3 biggest cities again to get even more votes. Do you think is it worth to spread hindu at all?
Also as we will take Ghandi cities which are big and with hindu we could take enough votes to stop any resolutions soon. We can also pread hinu in our 2-3 biggest cities again to get even more votes. Do you think is it worth to spread hindu at all?
adrianj
Deity
I don't think spreading Hindu is a great idea.
1) We can't build monasteries - so unless we switch to OR we can't build missionaries.
2) If we defy any resolutions, eg, stopping a war, IIRC cities with Hindu will get a happiness penalty.
Taking Ghandi's cities would be easy enough at this point I think.
Whipping will be a problem, since we are currently running Emancipation. If you meant to say hurrying with gold, then yes, that would work fine since we're in universal suffrage. Note that we're only a few turns from finishing the Kremlin wonder = -33% hurry cost.
Once we get Mass Media does that obsolete the AP for everyone? Or would we need to quickly give the tech to the AIs as well?
1) We can't build monasteries - so unless we switch to OR we can't build missionaries.
2) If we defy any resolutions, eg, stopping a war, IIRC cities with Hindu will get a happiness penalty.
Taking Ghandi's cities would be easy enough at this point I think.
Whipping will be a problem, since we are currently running Emancipation. If you meant to say hurrying with gold, then yes, that would work fine since we're in universal suffrage. Note that we're only a few turns from finishing the Kremlin wonder = -33% hurry cost.
Once we get Mass Media does that obsolete the AP for everyone? Or would we need to quickly give the tech to the AIs as well?
Conquistador 63
Deity
I haven't looked at the save, but it seems you've done a good job, AJ!
I like the idea of HW playing next (after discussing next PPP). Learning MM doesn't obsolete AP for those who don't know the tech. But if Gandhi's campaign is going to be quick (and we'll have a good % of the votes from his hindu cities), I believe AP won't be much of a threat anymore.
Which troops are we using? It is was vanilla, I'd say 99% artillery but since it is BTS...Will cavs/grens suffice vs the the AI's rifles? Will we need Infantry (A.Line)? MGuns are only for stack and city defense, right?
I like the idea of HW playing next (after discussing next PPP). Learning MM doesn't obsolete AP for those who don't know the tech. But if Gandhi's campaign is going to be quick (and we'll have a good % of the votes from his hindu cities), I believe AP won't be much of a threat anymore.
Which troops are we using? It is was vanilla, I'd say 99% artillery but since it is BTS...Will cavs/grens suffice vs the the AI's rifles? Will we need Infantry (A.Line)? MGuns are only for stack and city defense, right?
Well the first thing i would do is to attack ASAP = on the next turn. I will attack the closest Ghandi city. The city is protected only by three lb and will fall easy. Then i will transport all the others troops and attack they next coastal city. I plan to Upg. few units(1-2 cannons to artilery) and IMO everything will be fine with the war vs Ghandi.
The question is about the tech route and i would like to update the list of wonders we will need(to build and to conquer)
The question is about the tech route and i would like to update the list of wonders we will need(to build and to conquer)
adrianj
Deity
Other options for tech path could be towards tanks: COmbustion (transports, destroyers) -> Electricity -> Corporation -> Assembly Line -> Industrialism.
Or towards bombers: Combustion -> Flight -> Electricity -> Radio.
With enough bombers we could probably take the continent pretty quickly with cavalry.
Bear in mind that Corporation obsoletes GLH = -1 trade route per city = at least -100 raw commerce.
Augustus also has the option of researching corporation. If we left it long enough we might save ourselves a turn
I'll update the wonder list now.
Or towards bombers: Combustion -> Flight -> Electricity -> Radio.
With enough bombers we could probably take the continent pretty quickly with cavalry.
Bear in mind that Corporation obsoletes GLH = -1 trade route per city = at least -100 raw commerce.
Augustus also has the option of researching corporation. If we left it long enough we might save ourselves a turn
I'll update the wonder list now.
adrianj
Deity
Updated wonder list
There aren't many wonders outside of our tech path now. Assembly Line is definitely worth picking up now I think - we have a lot of wonders to build and could really use the factories. Especially the national wonders which we need to build outside our normal powerhouses of Yaso and Ulundi.
Techs we need for everything on that list except italics:
Corporation
Assembly Line
Combustion
Facsism
Electricity
Radio
Mass Media
Biology
Medicine
Refrigeration
At our current rate these could all take us ~50 turns. It's now turn 216.
Optional techs that aren't far away:
Industrialism (Tanks) -> Plastics (Three Gorges Dam, Standard Ethanol)
Flight (Bombers) -> Rocketry (Aluminium Co)
Unless we really need those optional techs for the war effort, I don't think they are worth the time just for the wonders.
I would be inclined to take Corporation -> Assembly Line for the factories and infantry and then get back down the Mass Media beeline.
There aren't many wonders outside of our tech path now. Assembly Line is definitely worth picking up now I think - we have a lot of wonders to build and could really use the factories. Especially the national wonders which we need to build outside our normal powerhouses of Yaso and Ulundi.
Techs we need for everything on that list except italics:
Corporation
Assembly Line
Combustion
Facsism
Electricity
Radio
Mass Media
Biology
Medicine
Refrigeration
At our current rate these could all take us ~50 turns. It's now turn 216.
Optional techs that aren't far away:
Industrialism (Tanks) -> Plastics (Three Gorges Dam, Standard Ethanol)
Flight (Bombers) -> Rocketry (Aluminium Co)
Unless we really need those optional techs for the war effort, I don't think they are worth the time just for the wonders.
I would be inclined to take Corporation -> Assembly Line for the factories and infantry and then get back down the Mass Media beeline.
Ronnie1
Deity
Mass Media does not cancel out the AP...BUT building the UN certainly DOES ! ! ! !
Nice playing Adrian!!!
The roster order is rather loose right now as we were trying to catch up.....
The Original....Roster is
munro - waiting
mystyfly - waiting
Rusten - waiting
Conquistador63 - waiting
adrianj - just played
hellwitch - UP NOW
oyzar - waiting
Ronnie1 - waiting
da_Vinci - waiting
Since hw originally followed adrian...this seems good to me.
Nice playing Adrian!!!
The roster order is rather loose right now as we were trying to catch up.....
The Original....Roster is
munro - waiting
mystyfly - waiting
Rusten - waiting
Conquistador63 - waiting
adrianj - just played
hellwitch - UP NOW
oyzar - waiting
Ronnie1 - waiting
da_Vinci - waiting
Since hw originally followed adrian...this seems good to me.
Munro
Deity
Thoughts:
- We don't need flight for rocketry, so it is probably a good idea to research that at some point for Aluminium Co (as it's only 1 tech, not 2).
- It seems likely Augustus will have rifles by the time we DOW on him, so I agree with going for Corporation > Assembly Line next, to get the all conquering infantry, and to get those factories ready to start on all the late game wonders as early as possible.
- In addition to the 3 indian cities (Delhi, Bombay, Vijay...) and 3 Roman cities (Rome, Antium, Cumae) that have most of the wonders, there are 4 additional cities we want to capture for extra wonder points:
- HRE (3): Knossos (holy), Aachen (holy), Vienna (Hanging Gardens)
- Celts (1): Camulodnum (holy)
- The location of these 10 cities are all marked in the screenshot below.
- Camulodnum and Knossos can obviously be captured by sea towards the end (if not before)
- Vienna and Aachen are well inland and will require slightly longer to capture from the HRE. Need to allow a little time for this at the end.
- Of course, if we get unlucky and don't pop the 2 additional great prophets we still need for the remaining shrines, then we can skip one of the above holy cities (Aachen, Knossus or Camulodnum).
- Even with all of Gandhi's and Caesar's lands, we'll still be under the domination limit.. so we can feel free to keep as much as seems useful (perhaps all of the continental land) before vassalizing them. This may be the best course of action to avoid the need for a longer war with the HRE or Celts at the end.
- We should remember that Charlemagne is the only remaining AI that can be bribed into war at pleased or friendly. (All others require friendly). So let's keep him happy in order to be able to dominate and control the late game.
I plan to tech Corp>assembly line>Biology>medicine.
IMO MG are not suitable for the situation thats why i will build Cav, Airships and artilery , later infantry.
The war plan is now to load the three galeons and on the next turn to conquer the neast Ghandi city directly from the boats(a tree wounded lb wont be problem).
I also think to start the FP, GT and Hermitage somewhere soon. WS will go into our srine city after it build bank also. After taking Assembly line i will start factories&plants in our most productive cities.
If a stop war vote come i will defy it. If Joao get hindu i will immediatly make colony for example from Visgoth.
I plan to play tomorrow .
IMO MG are not suitable for the situation thats why i will build Cav, Airships and artilery , later infantry.
The war plan is now to load the three galeons and on the next turn to conquer the neast Ghandi city directly from the boats(a tree wounded lb wont be problem).
I also think to start the FP, GT and Hermitage somewhere soon. WS will go into our srine city after it build bank also. After taking Assembly line i will start factories&plants in our most productive cities.
If a stop war vote come i will defy it. If Joao get hindu i will immediatly make colony for example from Visgoth.
I plan to play tomorrow .
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