SGOTM 08 - Smurkz

I take it, then, that our Rockport galley hasn't sailed west to check out Shaka's southern domain?

Definitely Metal Casting for the forges (and the chance to build the Colossus, anyone? anyone?), but I'd be tempted to go for Machinery before Nationalism so we can build maces and crossbows to discourage Shaka from anything rash. That would also give a bit of time to build a forge in our Taj city, wherever that is, before starting on the Taj itself.
 
The Rockport galley sailed north with the worker, and will return with a missionary. Our western galley has mapped out the wester coast south of Nongoma though, and found both a Shaka town and a Joao town.

I'll play up to Education, and we can talk more about research at that point. I'll be making dinner now, and will play after that.
 
At this point, attacking either Bulawayo or Nongoma would be prudent, with my personal preference looking towards Bulawayo for the simple fact is it is settled on a source of copper. Knocking out his impi/axe production would certainly speed up our conquest of Shaka. Keep in mind Shaka still has 6 cities and we only know exactly where 2 are, while the others can be located with guesstimation. I'm fairly certain there is one city west of Bulawayo, likely settling the fish and cows if I had to guess. Finishing that point, the rest of the cities are likely south of Nongoma, meaning we'll need a lot more troops to finish the job - there's no way what we have can be split up into two stacks. The wildcard here is does Shaka have the Iron in the far south settled and hooked up? He has enough cities remaining for that to be realistically possible.

As for teching after Education, I'd go for either Metal Casting or Nationalism. In my opinion whatever we go for should have Ulundi in mind, since I agree with Niklas that the Taj should go here. However, before it gets started all of the infrastructure should be finished in Ulundi, giving us roughly 17 turns to complete that, or rather 14 turns counting the three turns of revolt. My guess is yes, we can get a lighthouse, library and possibly a courthouse done in that time frame.

Speaking of courthouses, since we now have CoL we should start building them asap, since our city maintenance is currently at 35 / turn and will go up further once Ulundi is not revolting. Hari-Smurkz can have one built in 6, Yo can have one in 3, and the others we would likely have to whip into place. Also since we have currency, a market in our bureaucrafied capital would be a very prudent investment - possibly better than University of Sankore at this point. We only have 2 Taoist buildings at this point in our capital, with one currently being built by UoS completion, equaling "only" another base 10 beakers/ turn + 2 extra GS GPP. However, a market in Yo @0% funding would net 13.25 extra commerce / turn. While admittedly I don't fully understand the gold->beaker conversion mechanics yet, it would seem that when the slider is at 0% the market would outdo the UoS. Whether this is true at 100% I don't know, but it would bare some looking into.

So to finish off Shaka we definitely will need more troops, leading me to believe getting the Heroic Epic up in Hari should be done asap to spit troops out. It can be built in 5 turns, although we wouldn't get another worker out while it's being built.

And all of these thoughts were done from turn 142, so if Niklas played on and negates some of these things it's not my fault :p
 
Turn 139/500 (580 AD) [05-Dec-2008 00:03:26]
Niklas: Bomb Ulundi's defenses from 50% to 30%.
While attacking in Khmer territory at Nobamba, Axeman defeats (5.00/5): Zulu Impi (Prob Victory: 95.5%)
Yosmurkzhappy begins: Axeman (1 turns)
Hari-Smurkz begins: Worker (3 turns)
Smurkz-harapura begins: Taoist Temple (10 turns)
Yosmurkzhappy finishes: Axeman
A Hamlet was built near Smurkz-harapura
uMgungundlovu's borders expand

Turn 140/500 (600 AD) [05-Dec-2008 00:19:07]
Niklas: Bomb Ulundi's defenses from 30% to 6%.
Yosmurkzhappy begins: Taoist Monastery (3 turns)
A Farm was built
A Farm was built near Hari-Smurkz
Tech learned: Paper
A Village was built near Yosmurkzhappy

Turn 141/500 (620 AD) [05-Dec-2008 01:30:49]
Research begun: Education (31 Turns)
Niklas: Ok, now the fun starts... :evil:
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
While attacking in Zulu territory at Ulundi, Catapult loses to: Zulu Swordsman (1.80/6) (Prob Victory: 5.8%)
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
While attacking in Zulu territory at Ulundi, Catapult loses to: Zulu Axeman (1.70/5) (Prob Victory: 55.8%)
Niklas: :(
While attacking in Zulu territory at Ulundi, Ballista Elephant defeats (8.00/8): Zulu Impi (Prob Victory: 98.8%)
While attacking in Zulu territory at Ulundi, Ballista Elephant defeats (6.96/8): Zulu Archer (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Zulu territory at Ulundi, Axeman defeats (5.00/5): Zulu Axeman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Zulu territory at Ulundi, Axeman defeats (5.00/5): Zulu Swordsman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
Niklas: Ok, just an archer at 0.8 left, fish for that last xp with our Spear Medic.
While attacking in Zulu territory at Ulundi, Nebuchadrezzar II (Spearman) defeats (3.32/4): Zulu Archer (Prob Victory: 99.8%)
Captured Ulundi (Shaka)
Niklas: Huzzah!
Ulundi begins: Library (91 turns)
While attacking in the wild at Ulundi, Ballista Elephant defeats (3.84/8): Zulu Horse Archer (Prob Victory: 99.5%)
Niklas: Ok, we got a worker too, nice! That HA was defending a settler. Time for a CF.
Suryavarman II(Khmer) and Shaka(Zululand) have signed a peace treaty
Niklas: And João has Currency to trade us! Trade CoL + Aesthetics + 45 gp for Currency + Monarchy.
Tech learned: Monarchy
Tech learned: Currency
Yosmurkzhappy finishes: Taoist Monastery
Hari-Smurkz finishes: Worker
Rockport grows: 6
Rockport finishes: Angkor Wat
kwaDukuza grows: 3
Attitude Change: Shaka(Zululand) towards Suryavarman II(Khmer), from 'Furious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 142/500 (640 AD) [05-Dec-2008 01:50:58]
Yosmurkzhappy begins: University of Sankore (13 turns)
Hari-Smurkz begins: Worker (3 turns)
Rockport begins: Lighthouse (10 turns)
Niklas: Another wonder to our collection! :woohoo:
Nebuchadrezzar II (Spearman) promoted: Morale
uMgungundlovu grows: 4

Turn 143/500 (660 AD) [05-Dec-2008 23:19:54]
Yosmurkzhappy begins: Taoist Missionary (2 turns)
Niklas: We won't make too much beakers at 100% to waste any bulbed once, so I'll keep the research at 100%.
Aryabhata (Great Scientist) born in Yosmurkzhappy
Hari-Smurkz finishes: Worker
A Hamlet was built near Hari-Smurkz
A Village was built near Smurkz-harapura
Nobamba's borders expand

Turn 144/500 (680 AD) [05-Dec-2008 23:36:10]
Hari-Smurkz begins: Heroic Epic (6 turns)
Niklas: And we got our GS! Phew! Time to bulb...
A Cottage was built near kwaDukuza
Niklas: Ok, decision time, north or south. Shaka has been moving a Shock axe and an Impi southwards towards Nongoma, so it will be well defended.

Halfway save:
 

Attachments

Where is our galley? (The one that was trying to explore west past Shaka.) I think I changed my mind on which way to go with our military -- if we take Bulawayo and the presumed other northern town, it gives us a clear shot to go exploring by sea out west of Joao, which I like.
 
That galley is waiting just north of Ulundi, it would move into Bulawayo's borders when we declare regardless of where the army moves. So that galley will likely have a free path out anyway, but yes, it would certainly be nice to have the northern coastline free of yellow.

I'm ambivalent. Taking Bulawayo will likely be far easier than taking Nongoma, and we'd have ample warning if Shaka tries to send anything at us from the south. But Bulawayo is not a town we care to keep, wheras Nongoma is a definite keeper, as well as opening lots of good land down south. I could see us go for Bulawayo first, but the faster we turn south the better. And we don't have many more reinforcements coming from behind now, so we have to take care not to waste the forces we have.
 
We will likely raze Bulawayo and keep Nongoma. The cow/fish city west of Bulwayo is probably a keeper, but nothing special. Shaka now has six cities - best guess is two north and four south. It's near-certain that he has the iron hooked up, so Bulwayo is likely not his only source of metal.

Clearing the northern sea route will probably require taking both northern Shaka cities.

Three of the GP wonders have been built, which is good. Not many of the others have been built, which is bad. I think we need another production center, so I favor taking Nongoma. If we can also take Bulawayo, that's OK, but not if it costs us Nongoma.
 
We've seen Shaka ship settlers by galley, at least we think so, rolo reported that during his turns. And there's land north of Bulawayo that we haven't explored yet, so chances are that at least one town is up in that direction. That leaves 2-3 in the south. So I'm not at all so certain that the Iron is hooked up there.

Still, I'm leaning towards Nongoma first.
 
Shaka to the south, Shaka to the north, Shaka gonna shake it, shake it back and forth.

Anyway, if I had to choose between Shaka to my north or to my south, I'd rather have the land in the south and Shaka in the north.

Can we capture Nongoma, and then swing back north to raze Bulawayo?
 
I'd much rather have Nongoma than Bulawayo, and don't think we have enough units to do both. In fact, I'd rather have Hari build a chariot before the HE since we're light on units--that or an axe, 2 turns for either. I'd take the chariot (we have horses now, but no archery so no horse archers) because it can get to the front faster and can be used for pillaging roads in future wars.

A DoW in 2 turns would work well in terms of letting our one wounded unit (cat in Nobamba) heal and moving the attack units that are currently just south of Ulundi into position.

Our galley in the SW would take 2 turns to move to see if Shaka has the southern iron hooked up. By the way, the glance screen shows that Shaka has traded his copper to Joao for wine--not sure if that means he already has iron or if he's made a big boo-boo by tying up his one formerly-extra metal source for awhile. Can someone check older saves to maybe see when this trade went into effect? The kids are home from their morning activities so I'm banished from the PC until tonight.

Rockport gets a culture expansion next turn which means our galleys can move directly to/from the desert peninsula south of Hari--handy for shuttling units back and forth, especially if we road that desert. Also, we should be able to see a little more land on the mainland to Rockport's west (to see what Shaka's up to).

Since practically all our cities (except Hari) are building stuff other than units for quite awhile, I'd really like to get Machinery so we can upgrade/build some maces and/or crossbows--Shaka is down but far from out.

Jacques has hit land's end in the west but there are several corners he cut getting there to his north, plus a small amount of unexplored icy land to his south. Neither direction is likely to reveal new islands, but I'd prefer to move him to the north just in case that island north of Bulawayo leads to something interesting. Hmm, since we're going to have a 10-turn peace treaty soon, perhaps there would be time to go south after all.

Last, with the 10-turn peace coming up, perhaps now would be a good time to load the Stone Island scout onto the galley that will soon be heading back to Rockport with a missionary and send them to Antarctica to pop that remaining goody hut. The galley can dump the scout on the western end of that island in 9 turns, then head back north to guard/watch Shaka while the scout continues east. Yeah, he may be stranded there for awhile, and part of the eastern coast of Stone Island will be fogged, but it may be worth it.
 
I gave finally a look into the save ( hopefully you're not playing already ;) )....

My personal bet is to go south, but only because we can also nab the barb city. I bet there are 3 shaka cities both to the north and to the south.

Other concern is the lack of catapults we suffer. When are you planning to solve this issue?
 
>>The Save<<


Turn 144/500 (680 AD) [05-Dec-2008 23:36:10]
Hari-Smurkz begins: Heroic Epic (6 turns)
A Cottage was built near kwaDukuza
Tech learned: Education
Yosmurkzhappy finishes: Taoist Missionary
Smurkz-harapura grows: 12
Rockport's borders expand
kwaDukuza grows: 4
uMgungundlovu grows: 5
Nobamba grows: 5

Turn 145/500 (700 AD) [06-Dec-2008 22:47:21]
Research begun: Metal Casting (2 Turns)
Yosmurkzhappy begins: Colosseum (2 turns)
A Farm was built near uMgungundlovu
Suryavarman II(Khmer) declares war on Shaka(Zululand)
Niklas: Gah, we're starting to feel WW
Niklas: Yo and Pura lost a working citizen each, and Nobamba has only 3/5 working.
Niklas: This will have to be a quick war...
Smurkz-harapura finishes: Taoist Temple
While defending in Zulu territory at Bulawayo, Galley defeats (2.00/2): Zulu Galley (Prob Victory: 67.8%)
Attitude Change: Shaka(Zululand) towards Suryavarman II(Khmer), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'

Turn 146/500 (720 AD) [06-Dec-2008 23:07:23]
Smurkz-harapura begins: University (20 turns)
Niklas: Whipped one pop in uM, which made Nobamba one of the top 5 and happy again.
Yosmurkzhappy finishes: Colosseum
kwaDukuza finishes: Library
uMgungundlovu finishes: Library
A Hamlet was built near kwaDukuza
Nobamba finishes: Granary

Turn 147/500 (740 AD) [06-Dec-2008 23:21:46]
kwaDukuza begins: University (34 turns)
uMgungundlovu begins: University (40 turns)
Nobamba begins: Catapult (7 turns)
Yosmurkzhappy begins: University (8 turns)
A Cottage was built near Smurkz-harapura
A Mine was built near uMgungundlovu
Yosmurkzhappy grows: 13
A Village was built near Smurkz-harapura
Rockport finishes: Lighthouse
uMgungundlovu grows: 5

Turn 148/500 (760 AD) [06-Dec-2008 23:27:46]
Taoism has spread: Rockport
Rockport begins: Taoist Temple (8 turns)
Niklas: Nongoma defenses to 0%
A Farm was built near Hari-Smurkz
A Cottage was built near kwaDukuza
User comment: With uMgung growing to size 5 again, Nobamba is back to unhappiness.
Tech learned: Metal Casting
Smurkz-harapura grows: 11
kwaDukuza grows: 4
Ulundi grows: 3

Turn 149/500 (780 AD) [06-Dec-2008 23:35:29]
Research begun: Machinery (10 Turns)
Niklas: And so it begins...
Catapult promoted: Barrage I
While attacking in Zulu territory at Nongoma, Catapult loses to: Zulu Axeman (3.40/5) (Prob Victory: 25.2%)
Niklas: One cat dies, the other three retreat. We'll have no problem mopping up now.
While attacking in Zulu territory at Nongoma, Ballista Elephant defeats (6.96/8): Zulu Archer (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Zulu territory at Nongoma, Ballista Elephant defeats (5.12/8): Zulu Archer (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Zulu territory at Nongoma, Axeman defeats (5.00/5): Zulu Axeman (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
While attacking in Zulu territory at Nongoma, Ballista Elephant defeats (6.96/8): Zulu Archer (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Zulu territory at Nongoma, Ballista Elephant defeats (8.00/8): Zulu Swordsman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Zulu territory at Nongoma, Nebuchadrezzar II (Spearman) defeats (4.00/4): Zulu Chariot (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
Captured Nongoma (Shaka)
Nongoma begins: Granary (61 turns)
A Mine was built near Ulundi

Some interesting things to note:
* We lost only one cat taking Nongoma, as seen above. Most units are lightly harmed.
* Sheets are off due to WW, and due to some executive decisions I had to make because of that.
* João would trade us Wines. We could give him Copper in return.
* Shaka doesn't seem to have more than one city left south of Nongoma. We should take it before considering peace.
* Shaka's new capitol is Bulawayo. We'll see a border expansion there soon, which would steal tiles from Ulundi. We really should take that town too...
* Shaka offers Archery, 60 gp and WM in return for peace. Clearly no good at this point though.
 
Neither Jacques nor the SW galley have moved since the previous save. :( The galley, in particular, could have scoped out much of the land south of Nongoma to see how many cities are down there and if Shaka has the iron. Shaka has 5 cities left--assuming he's crammed 3 up north, that leaves 2 in the south. Nobamba is building a cat, but it'll take 4 turns. Hari is 1 turn from completing the HE. The northern galley is exploring around the single-tile island to the north of Bulawayo and hasn't yet seen how many cities are west of there. Our stone island scout is on a galley and presumably heading for the southern hut.

We're bleeding cash because of maintenance. In steady state we can only run about 25% research. War weariness isn't a big problem yet (only 1 sad face, with maybe 3 unhappy cities) but several of Shaka's former cities are also whining about missing their countrymen and will become unhappy as they get bigger. Is that only a factor during war?

While we still have a pretty good attack force, taking the 2 (or 3) southern cities will be pushing it. We can take 1 more pretty easily, maybe 2, but it'll take time and I worry about the maintenance costs. We're getting the bulk of our beakers from Yo, so if we turn that into a scientist specialist city we can turn down the science slider pretty low and still make good progress, but we really need to start building courthouses as soon as those uni's are done.

Happiness is going to become a problem, even after after the war's over. We need to spread the faith, but we only have the one monastery in Yo at the moment. A few forges will help, but I think we need to make a push for Notre Dame (2 happy in all cities on the same continent), which requires Engineering. It would be a tragedy not to get ND. Eng also gives us extra movement on roads, pikemen, and trebs.

Without seeing where Shaka's cities are/how big/what units I don't have a firm opinion on how long to keep attacking or where. A big factor will be how quickly our cities become unhappy(er), but if we attack the (probably) 3 northern cities I think we should probably raze them all and then settle a new one on either of the hills (desert and plains) in the center of that region. It'll have cows and copper, but we can't get the fish. To get the fish (with cows) we can't get the copper, but maybe food is more important. The choice depends somewhat on where Joao's cities to the south are. One of our workers W of Ulundi should take a slight detour and see what's there.

We have a ton of stuff we need to build, but we're currently committing nearly all our resources toward getting Oxford in Yo. We need to make sure it pays off.
 
Sorry, I was rushed when I wrote my handoff, I should have added more info.

Jacques didn't move no - I parked him there hoping someone would come around since there's land across the waters there. It seemed the best chance of meeting someone, seeing how there's nowhere else where the land would extend. Rereading you prior post I realize you asked for him to move north so he could be picked up by the galley for transfer somewhere. That's definitely a good idea and I'm sorry I didn't pay more attention to it.

The southern galley certainly moved though, to the southern iron and back. There's no sign of any yellow borders anywhere in the south, leading me to think there is only that one town, leaving the other four in the north. I saw no reason to keep sailing southwards so I turned him around and back north again. I wasn't aware he ended up in the same position so you'd think he didn't move. :ack:

Getting Oxford in Yo would net 42 bpt at 0%, ~60 bpt at current stable rate, and a lot more if/when we add more scientists. Our current research rate is otherwise stable around 130 bpt. So yes - it's going to pay off big time. The libraries and Unis will also help in the towns where we build them, and I expect an increase in our total research of well over 100 bpt. But I agree that Courthouses and some other economic buildings will be necessary right after we're done with the Unis. It's also time to spam cottages wherever they are useful, like in Kwa and uMgung.

I'll post some thoughts on warfare shortly.
 
Just posting a got it.

Real remarks on the situation tomorrow. Seems tome the real question is how much we want and we can war against Shaka...
 
I'll post some thoughts on warfare shortly.
I guess I should learn not to say shortly when I apparently mean tomorrow... :rolleyes:

I have a lot of thoughts, but one thing seems clearer and clearer to me. We should take Shaka out, and the sooner the better. He's gassed on units so as long as we fill up with a few cats here and there we should be fine.

But as I said - more tomorrow. :sleep:
 
No, I never took a screenshot. But what would you expect to see? There was nothing there that isn't seen in the game as it is.
 
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