ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
And, actually, to get Optics we have to have Metal Casting, so it's copacetic with that line of research.
SGOTM 08 - Smurkz
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Optics means going for MC first, so it should be covered in the two close-term competing cases I suggested. We could go Compass first of course, it's a toss-up really, we're not likely to build either forges or harbors before Shaka's downfall anyway.
EDIT: I actually didn't see Chris' last post when writing this, I missed the next page of the thread. So yeah.
I'm not totally convinced though. Optics means going MC->Mach->Compass->Optics, that's quite a lot to research and a substatial delay in reaching CoL (for CS), CS (for Bur) and in particular Education (for Unis and Oxford). But I guess in the longer run, if Optics is make or break for meeting more contacts then we gain more by being able to do more trades. So I'm ambivalent.
Can we tell if João knows someone more? If he does, then I'd rather go the Education route. If not, I'd consider Optics.
EDIT: I actually didn't see Chris' last post when writing this, I missed the next page of the thread. So yeah.
I'm not totally convinced though. Optics means going MC->Mach->Compass->Optics, that's quite a lot to research and a substatial delay in reaching CoL (for CS), CS (for Bur) and in particular Education (for Unis and Oxford). But I guess in the longer run, if Optics is make or break for meeting more contacts then we gain more by being able to do more trades. So I'm ambivalent.
Can we tell if João knows someone more? If he does, then I'd rather go the Education route. If not, I'd consider Optics.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Aside from things like "he traded something that Shaka didn't know" or "he must be devoting espionage points to a third party" or similar diplomatic clues, I don't think we can tell if he knows anyone. The BtS espionage system hides that stuff.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Why not research metal casting for forges and see what our exploring woodsman and galley discover? We can always switch gears back to education techs if we find other AI and the forges will be useful in any case.
Alright, I guess I can buy that argument. There should be plenty of time to get Education before the war ends anyway, and MC will be useful one way or another. We shouldn't forget that +1 that it will give us for the Gold (nor should we forget the +1 
).
Since we have no immediate use for MC, and since we're researching at a pretty nice clip regardless, I would suggest that we keep research at 0% for 7 of the 8 turns I suggest for the upcoming turnset, and 100% on the last. That should give us a healthy treasury, and give us MC on T127, so we can discuss at the handoff point what to go for next. This all of course assumes we actually get a GS next turn...
that it will give us for the Gold (nor should we forget the +1 ).Since we have no immediate use for MC, and since we're researching at a pretty nice clip regardless, I would suggest that we keep research at 0% for 7 of the 8 turns I suggest for the upcoming turnset, and 100% on the last. That should give us a healthy treasury, and give us MC on T127, so we can discuss at the handoff point what to go for next. This all of course assumes we actually get a GS next turn...
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Sounds good to me.
What other gp could we get?
What other gp could we get?
We could get a GA due to having the NE. The chance is small, but not negligible.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Well, I suppose we could save it for a golden age. There isn't another wonder to build with an artist, is there?
Has Methos "got it" yet?
Has Methos "got it" yet?
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
What's the big attraction with Optics? Yes, we can build carvels, sail across the oceans, and find more civs, which increases our tech trading opportunities and gives us a small bonus in research rates. If the new civs can only be reached by caravel, though, they won't provide new trade routes. If they can be reached by galley (which does allow trade routes, assuming Shaka's domain doesn't block the path) then why don't we just reach them by galley? Possible routes to our northeast have not been explored. Galley or caravel--you're going to have to spend hammers to build a ship either way.
I'm being somewhat facetious--more tech trading options can be worth a lot, but I'd like to hear more about what we'd be willing to trade away and might hope to get. And just to stir things up some more, how about building another galley now and sending it to fill in the corners on the NE islands? If it really does come up empty, and Jacques and the western galley also hit deadends, then Optics becomes a higher priority. In contrast, the CoL/Education line has very clear benefits--Optics may have a bigger/sooner payoff, but we might be able to get much of that potential payoff with what we already have by spending some hammers in lieu of a lot of beakers.
I'm being somewhat facetious--more tech trading options can be worth a lot, but I'd like to hear more about what we'd be willing to trade away and might hope to get. And just to stir things up some more, how about building another galley now and sending it to fill in the corners on the NE islands? If it really does come up empty, and Jacques and the western galley also hit deadends, then Optics becomes a higher priority. In contrast, the CoL/Education line has very clear benefits--Optics may have a bigger/sooner payoff, but we might be able to get much of that potential payoff with what we already have by spending some hammers in lieu of a lot of beakers.
r_rolo1
King of myself
I'm not a fan of going Optics either, unless we want to bulb astro ( do we ? )
I'm here and got it. Sorry, my wife's grandmother has been in the hospital since last week and I fell behind in everything. I'm still trying to catch up. Her surgery was Saturday night and they [doctors/nurses] say she's doing good.
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Btw, I've been to busy/lazy to implement Xc's idea about relevant links in one of the first-page posts. If someone feels like gathering some links for that, I'd really appreciate it.
Post 899 shows the northern world, 815 the southern. A link to the latest spreadsheet would also be helpful.
Good to have you back, Methos. I hope things continue to improve.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Yippee! Yahoo!
... and today I wake up to a better world. Congratulations to former-Smurkz-gone-campaign-worker DaviddesJ! 
Now let's go make this our little world here a better place too...
Congratulations to former-Smurkz-gone-campaign-worker DaviddesJ! Now let's go make this our little world here a better place too...
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
And a Hip! Hip! HooRAY!! Now where were we...
Declaring on 126 and then letting Shaka come to us sounds OK.
Building up cash for awhile sounds OK, but 7 turns? Remember, we'll be getting some plunder from Shaka's cities. Whenever we do research, I'm all for Metal Casting first.
Yes, settle the GS. If he's a GA instead, I'd be tempted to run a Golden Age immediately to run more research, and build more units and another galley with scout for exploring. It would speed up Angkor Wat, too.
I have no opinion on 3 axes vs 2 cats.
First, let's find out for sure whether or not our Music GA fogbusts for sure. Rolo said in 898 that GPs (other than Spies) can be destroyed just like any unit so I'm a bit nervous. A scout is only 15 hammers, and could pop the goodie hut, and then be gallied to the other hut on the island to the south.
Declaring on 126 and then letting Shaka come to us sounds OK.
Building up cash for awhile sounds OK, but 7 turns? Remember, we'll be getting some plunder from Shaka's cities. Whenever we do research, I'm all for Metal Casting first.
Yes, settle the GS. If he's a GA instead, I'd be tempted to run a Golden Age immediately to run more research, and build more units and another galley with scout for exploring. It would speed up Angkor Wat, too.
I have no opinion on 3 axes vs 2 cats.
First, let's find out for sure whether or not our Music GA fogbusts for sure. Rolo said in 898 that GPs (other than Spies) can be destroyed just like any unit so I'm a bit nervous. A scout is only 15 hammers, and could pop the goodie hut, and then be gallied to the other hut on the island to the south.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
I did a worldbuilder test. A continent covered in great artists never sees a barbarian. Another continent 90% covered in great artists watches the lions come out of the 10% and eat their way across the continent.
Great people can fogbust. They have zero defence and can be killed automatically by any land unit with strength 1 or greater.
Great people can fogbust. They have zero defence and can be killed automatically by any land unit with strength 1 or greater.
Thanks for that Chris! That means we could let Willy unfog the rest of the northern island and never fear another barbarian there. We just have to ensure that none are there when he gets over. After all, we expect to sit on Willy for a long long time before he's useful - might as well let him do some good work in the mean time.
I'll post a plan for the transfer in a while.
We still seem to be undecided on the research issue. More voices have been raised against going the Optics route, and I tend to agree with them. I definitely wouldn't mind doing PH->CoL next. I'll put up a plan for that too.
I'll post a plan for the transfer in a while.
We still seem to be undecided on the research issue. More voices have been raised against going the Optics route, and I tend to agree with them. I definitely wouldn't mind doing PH->CoL next. I'll put up a plan for that too.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
I wouldn't say "more voices have been raised" -- after all, Xc is the only one who argued against it. That's a voice, not voices.
Xcalibtrator made the largest argument against Optics, but stated a preference for MC regardless.
r_rolo1 implied that Optics would be OK if we are planning to bulb Astronomy.
Xcalibtrator made the largest argument against Optics, but stated a preference for MC regardless.
r_rolo1 implied that Optics would be OK if we are planning to bulb Astronomy.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Man, this war is going to cost us a fortune in lost trade revenue. Did anyone notice that Rockport is getting trade routes with Joao's cities?
Aren't we supposed to be building a road on the space 1SE of kwa?
Aren't we supposed to be building a road on the space 1SE of kwa?
Similar threads
- Sticky
- Sticky
