SGOTM 08 - Trash Team
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
KingMorgan
Deity
I think after IW we should head in the Construction / HBR direction and start thinking about introducing Shaka to our Cat-a-phants 
cripp7
Playin' Bored
We HOPE Shaka doesn't have copper or iron
remconius
Deity
Ese-Ash, you still around?
ese-aSH
Prince
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2006
- Messages
- 354
done ! (sorry had trouble with net this WE)
the save
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm8/Trash_Team_SG008_BC1200_01.CivBeyondSwordSave
no particular events in 5 turns
Joao proposed OB on last turn, I refused since this has to be discussed here.
the save
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm8/Trash_Team_SG008_BC1200_01.CivBeyondSwordSave
no particular events in 5 turns
Joao proposed OB on last turn, I refused since this has to be discussed here.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Looking Froody 
.
Hmm. Decisions. Do we go for war against Shaka on the assumption that if we don't he will? Do we try to convert him and turn him into our pet pit bull? Do we ignore him and rex away? Do we ignore him and wonderspam away?
What's the grand strategy? Go for a tech lead and then conquer everyone stealing their wonders? Build the wonders then conquer enough people for domination?
It's all too complicated. My head hurts. If I had a brain it would have exploded by now!
.Hmm. Decisions. Do we go for war against Shaka on the assumption that if we don't he will? Do we try to convert him and turn him into our pet pit bull? Do we ignore him and rex away? Do we ignore him and wonderspam away?
What's the grand strategy? Go for a tech lead and then conquer everyone stealing their wonders? Build the wonders then conquer enough people for domination?
It's all too complicated. My head hurts. If I had a brain it would have exploded by now!
KingMorgan
Deity
We can assume;
Jao will be powerful on this watery map.
Shaka will expand to his south if we don't stop him
We are blocked by Shaka, easy expansion to good land is limited.
I suggest a blocking city perhaps on the forest NW of our spearman, then crack out the GLH, we can then expand to the islands. The stone island should be second after the marble city. Fill on the mainland to the clams NW of the capital, then expand to all known islands.
If not we should tech to Construction and HBR and nail Shaka. Maybe a blocker South of Shaka, to keep him from the south pensular.
Jao will be powerful on this watery map.
Shaka will expand to his south if we don't stop him
We are blocked by Shaka, easy expansion to good land is limited.
I suggest a blocking city perhaps on the forest NW of our spearman, then crack out the GLH, we can then expand to the islands. The stone island should be second after the marble city. Fill on the mainland to the clams NW of the capital, then expand to all known islands.
If not we should tech to Construction and HBR and nail Shaka. Maybe a blocker South of Shaka, to keep him from the south pensular.
cripp7
Playin' Bored
Shaka is going to become a problem no matter what direction we go. I think build the ones we can and steal all the others.
ese-aSH
Prince
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2006
- Messages
- 354
we can settle south of shake : the island expands there, and there a good blocking spot.
First we have to decide : war or not ? if yes, our jumbos + cats will crush him + we have lot of land to conquer. That means rex until construction, then go warring.
if 'no', then we must convert him : shaka is not a wonderspammer, yet he does build some when he has a good tech rate. a weak friend building some wonders is something cool
in my experience its quite hard to get shaka friendly.
about marble city : we should reconsider it, we dont need marble right now since oracle is done, it may not be the best choice immediatly.
First we have to decide : war or not ? if yes, our jumbos + cats will crush him + we have lot of land to conquer. That means rex until construction, then go warring.
if 'no', then we must convert him : shaka is not a wonderspammer, yet he does build some when he has a good tech rate. a weak friend building some wonders is something cool
in my experience its quite hard to get shaka friendly.
about marble city : we should reconsider it, we dont need marble right now since oracle is done, it may not be the best choice immediatly.
remconius
Deity
Ese-Ash, a little more detail on your turnset would be appreciated. 
Your turnset consisted of getting the Oracle, etc. I am very curious what happened. Normally a turn-by-turn report is good to let us relive the turnset. We have to read from your other post that the Oracle is apparantly done.
For this time can you at least give us a summary of things discovered, built, researched, etc.
Your turnset consisted of getting the Oracle, etc. I am very curious what happened. Normally a turn-by-turn report is good to let us relive the turnset. We have to read from your other post that the Oracle is apparantly done.
For this time can you at least give us a summary of things discovered, built, researched, etc.
ese-aSH
Prince
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2006
- Messages
- 354
sorry
So I just finished the oracle in capital city, start settler (we are now size 6, no happyness issue with gold and ivory).
on city 2 I growed size 2, switch to worker and whip, then go on on barracks.
the pigs & ivory are connected, workers are now mining hills and building roads to allow more mobility against barbs. the galley went back from north so it can load the settler if needed.
South the exploring warior got blocked on forested hill : a barbarian warrior was close so I stayed on the hill until it attack me, but it did not, yet I did not want our warrior to die, therefore no imprudent move.
IW is on the road.
confu missionnary went to capital, but I did not convert (we dont need happyness immediatly, and until anyone else converts it may reveal a bad decision).
So I just finished the oracle in capital city, start settler (we are now size 6, no happyness issue with gold and ivory).
on city 2 I growed size 2, switch to worker and whip, then go on on barracks.
the pigs & ivory are connected, workers are now mining hills and building roads to allow more mobility against barbs. the galley went back from north so it can load the settler if needed.
South the exploring warior got blocked on forested hill : a barbarian warrior was close so I stayed on the hill until it attack me, but it did not, yet I did not want our warrior to die, therefore no imprudent move.
IW is on the road.
confu missionnary went to capital, but I did not convert (we dont need happyness immediatly, and until anyone else converts it may reveal a bad decision).
cripp7
Playin' Bored
Should the missionary wait until we have open borders with Shaka to send it to him? Also I agree on waiting on the marble city, I think blocking south is good.
KingMorgan
Deity
Marble would be good for Temple of Arty. Always a good build if your coastal.
Perhaps we should start thinking what direction we should take medium term?
For the next segement, i think it would be wise to open borders with Shaka and explore the mainland we are on, knowing the size of our continet will enable us to make a medium term plan. I would also avocate sending our missionary to Shaka's capital, never hurts to spread the confus love
As Jadex has dropped out for the moment,
-Blastoidstalker
-Stuge
Perhaps we should start thinking what direction we should take medium term?
For the next segement, i think it would be wise to open borders with Shaka and explore the mainland we are on, knowing the size of our continet will enable us to make a medium term plan. I would also avocate sending our missionary to Shaka's capital, never hurts to spread the confus love
As Jadex has dropped out for the moment,
-Blastoidstalker
-Stuge
remconius
Deity
Just looking at the save, good job on getting Oracle!
Small MM note, working Grassland hill reduces IW by one turn....
I dont think we should build to many wonders, only ones that help a lot. Rest we can capture at the end.
Small MM note, working Grassland hill reduces IW by one turn....
I dont think we should build to many wonders, only ones that help a lot. Rest we can capture at the end.
KingMorgan
Deity
It's far easier to build wonders than capture them.
pigswill
fly (one day)
I'm not sure about that. Its easy to build half the wonders but if you don't have an up to date (and suitably large) army you won't get the rest or finish the game early.
jadex
Warlord
Looking Froody
You have a Babelfish to translate that for me?
I agree on the "capturing as much as possible" instead of "building as much as possible". To me the key still seems to be high tech for fast finish and wise techsharing/gifting to make certain AI build the wonders... Dont see why spend hammer on winders without much benefit, if we have to conquer the world anyway to win the game...
KingMorgan
Deity
Did you guys play any test games?
If you want to capture wonders then it's probably that we will need to inavade 3 or 4 AIs. As we are not on a Panagea it will be intercontiental invasions, this will be time consuming and diffcult. I'm would imagine that we will need to invest more hammers into transports than it would cost to build the wonders. Remember also we are playing Normal speed, not epic or marathon as i'm sure most here play on.
Does either of you have experience of intercontinatal invasions on Monarch at Normal speed? If so please post your experiences.
If you want to capture wonders then it's probably that we will need to inavade 3 or 4 AIs. As we are not on a Panagea it will be intercontiental invasions, this will be time consuming and diffcult. I'm would imagine that we will need to invest more hammers into transports than it would cost to build the wonders. Remember also we are playing Normal speed, not epic or marathon as i'm sure most here play on.
Does either of you have experience of intercontinatal invasions on Monarch at Normal speed? If so please post your experiences.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Jadex: Like the babelfish its from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, "Cool and Froody".
KingMorgan: Yes, I have won monarch continents domination on normal speed but its a while ago now (well over a year) and I've forgotten the details. Also the map isn't continents but 'big and small'. We haven't explored enough yet to know if there's a coastal route between the two continents.
On a more general note it occured to me that all victory conditions are open so probably the fastest (and usually the cheesiest) victory is religious. Maybe we should have gone for theology slingshot from Oracle but given we would have needed monotheism as well as writing its by no means guaranteed we'd have got it. Maybe we could still have a go at theology, possibly through monotheism and generating a Prophet to bulb it.
Otherwise we're looking at culture, space, diplo, conquest or domination. Of those options conquest/domination is likely to be as quick as any.
KingMorgan: Yes, I have won monarch continents domination on normal speed but its a while ago now (well over a year) and I've forgotten the details. Also the map isn't continents but 'big and small'. We haven't explored enough yet to know if there's a coastal route between the two continents.
On a more general note it occured to me that all victory conditions are open so probably the fastest (and usually the cheesiest) victory is religious. Maybe we should have gone for theology slingshot from Oracle but given we would have needed monotheism as well as writing its by no means guaranteed we'd have got it. Maybe we could still have a go at theology, possibly through monotheism and generating a Prophet to bulb it.
Otherwise we're looking at culture, space, diplo, conquest or domination. Of those options conquest/domination is likely to be as quick as any.
ese-aSH
Prince
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2006
- Messages
- 354
KingMorgan : early domination means permanent warring. permanent warring means slow tech rate. slow tech rate means late wonders will be unlocked very late.
On such maps late game war go VERY fast : you can make an AI capitulate in 2 turns (on the first turn of war you can capture 3 coastal cities, then set blocus everywhere and demand capitulation).
when I say 'late wars' I mean 'post combustion/flight', when you got carriers and transports.
my opinion is that we may go at war with shaka, and then build a strong eco, trade tech as much as possible (even give some techs to AI to accelerate the world tech rate), let the useless wonders be built and crush the world in ~30 turns in the end.
@pigswill : theology is important because of the H of the AP, +2h / city (+4 before SM) is huge. Yet the problem with religious win is that it means we have to build most of the wonders (which is possible : we have stone, marble, gold, copper and ivory --> all wonders will benefit from the production bonus)
On such maps late game war go VERY fast : you can make an AI capitulate in 2 turns (on the first turn of war you can capture 3 coastal cities, then set blocus everywhere and demand capitulation).
when I say 'late wars' I mean 'post combustion/flight', when you got carriers and transports.
my opinion is that we may go at war with shaka, and then build a strong eco, trade tech as much as possible (even give some techs to AI to accelerate the world tech rate), let the useless wonders be built and crush the world in ~30 turns in the end.
@pigswill : theology is important because of the H of the AP, +2h / city (+4 before SM) is huge. Yet the problem with religious win is that it means we have to build most of the wonders (which is possible : we have stone, marble, gold, copper and ivory --> all wonders will benefit from the production bonus
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