SGOTM 08 - XTeam

[ShannonCT]

rrau, please give Killer a chance to see if he can put together a better plan then mine. If he can't, he'll probably know soon and you can use mine.

Edit: X-posted

Should you find yourself in a position to steal a Worker, or two, perhaps you should take a break and post? Or shall we just steal them and

Just remember that the first two archers in each city should be on CITY_DEFENSE orders and shouldn't attack. Even if he get's a spare archer somewhere, we should be able to get the worker(s) back by keeping the warrior/scout/worker team in good defensive terrain.

 

[killercane]

Would you be more interested in pop 4 at turn 35, and settler founded at turn 40 rather than 39?

5 turns at pop 4 (assuming use 6 power tile (copper))=30 (or if using commerce clam, 10 c, 20 food).
Loss of 1 turn of second city being founded (2 f 2 h city center+3 power tile used)=7

This is accomplished by workboat finishing and enjoying chop overflow into settler upon reaching size 4 and using the found on same turn bonus. There is 15 overflow for the warrior after settler. The commerce is the same as Writing is due in 2 at T40.

 

[ShannonCT]

Would you be more interested in pop 4 at turn 35, and settler founded at turn 40 rather than 39?

5 turns at pop 4 (assuming use 6 power tile (copper))=30 (or if using commerce clam, 10 c, 20 food).
Loss of 1 turn of second city being founded (2 f 2 h city center+3 power tile used)=7

This is accomplished by workboat finishing and enjoying chop overflow into settler upon reaching size 4 and using the found on same turn bonus. There is 15 overflow for the warrior after settler. The commerce is the same as Writing is due in 2 at T40.

When do you get academy?
How about Pop5 and 6 in capital, and Pop2 in PH city?

 

[killercane]

When do you get academy?
How about Pop5 and 6 in capital, and Pop2 in PH city?

Its the same as your plan, only difference is that outlined. Settling city 2 1 turn late would mean delay of 1 turn in getting cow on border expansion obviously.

 

[Mad Professor]

Good luck rrau.

 

[rrau]

So, which plan will we use? If the timing on academy is the same and research rate's the same, shall we go with the plan that gets us our second city earlier?

 

[leif erikson]

So, which plan will we use? If the timing on academy is the same and research rate's the same, shall we go with the plan that gets us our second city earlier?

Let's take our second city a turn earlier.
Original plan looks good to me...

 

[ShannonCT]

Killer, I think you forgot to count net productivity in your calculations. Net product of clams is 2 per turn, and copper is 4 per turn. Product lost at PH city is 5 for one turn, and 1-2 more every turn it grows in Pop. So, not a big productivity difference. I'm ok with rrau proceding.

 

[killercane]

Im not anal about it, but its the same darn thing, only better. Instead of queue switch settler, you switch to wb now, and get your 25% hammer bonus into the worker in three turns when the worker would have been complete anyways, they both move to grass forest, etc. I can make a complete turn by turn outline by copying SCT's work.

Same thing, but we get 5x production or whatever, no matter if you count city center or not. Copper tile=new city production on PH, both 4. I think its clearly the better choice as we game the system for ~20 extra hammers or whatever. If you put it on pure growth (City #2) it will take growing to size 4 on pure growth tiles to pay back and that is at least 40 turns down the road. Early hammers=better.

Getting the second city earlier is not the issue, it is purely production/commerce/food. I dont know why we want to rush away if that has been the problem in previous games. No worries either way though.

 

[ShannonCT]

Ok, we need a revised plan. I can try tonight.

 

[rrau]

Take your time. Thursday night is TV nite for me, so I won't play now until Friday at the earliest.

 

[ShannonCT]

OK, here's the plan for Pop4 on turn 35. None of the worker actions needed to change.


Turn plan for turns 29-46:

29) Begin Wheel. Capital queue swap worker to workboat. Worker 1 chops tile 1.

30) Worker 1 chops tile 1.

31) Net fish. Capital queue swap workboat to worker. Capital still works cows, gold, and copper. Worker 1 finishes chop of tile 1.

32) Capital worker->workboat. Capital works fish instead of copper. Workers 1 and 2 to tile 3.

33) Worker 1 prechops tile 3 for 1 turn. Worker 2 to tile 4.

34) Wheel->Writing. Capital workboat->warrior. Net clams. Work Clams, Fish, and Cows. Worker 1 roads tile 3. Worker 2 roads tile 4.

35) Capital Pop4. Work Fish, Cows, Copper, and Gold. Queue swap warrior to settler. Worker 1 roads tile 3. Worker 2 roads tile 4.

36) Worker 1 chops tile 3. Worker 2 to tile 6.

37) Worker 1 chops tile 3. Worker 2 roads tile 6.

38) Worker 1 to tile 4 and chops tile 4. Worker 2 roads tile 6.

39) Workers 1 and 2 chop tile 4.

40) Capital settler->workboat. Do not complete warrior yet! Work clams instead of copper. Settler founds PH City on tile 6. PH City works 1f2h tile and starts warrior. Worker 1 to tile 8. Worker 2 to tile 5.

41) Capital queue swap workboat to warrior. Work copper instead of clams. (Want to maximize overflow into library.) Worker 1 roads tile 8. Worker 2 roads tile 5.

42) Writing->Math. Capital warrior->library. Library should be 4 turns away. Worker 1 roads tile 8. Worker 2 roads tile 5. Open borders with Shaka, and begin exploration.

43) Workers 1 and 2 camp ivory.

44) Workers 1 and 2 finish ivory camp. PH City works ivory. PH City warrior->workboat.

45) Capital Pop5. Work clams. Workers 1 and 2 pasture cows. Research to 0%.

46) Capital library->workboat. Workers 1 and 2 finish cow pasture. PH City works cows. Research to 100%.



Old plan 1 @ turn 50:
Capital Pop6, 4 food stored, 5 hammers in barracks
PH City Pop2, 5 food stored, 29 hammers in workboat
Math has 219 beakers (4 turns away)
100% science rate is 36 bpt
Gold stored is 23 with -1 gpt
Worker has roaded copper on turn 48
Academy due on turn 66

Old plan 2 @ turn 50:
Capital Pop6, 5 food stored, 17 hammers in barracks
PH City Pop2, 2 food stored, 23 hammer in workboat
Math has 222 beakers (4 turns away)
100% science rate is 36 bpt
Gold stored is 23 with -1 gpt
Worker has roaded copper on turn 50
Academy due on turn 66

New plan @ turn 50:
Capital Pop6, 3 food stored, 21 hammers in barracks
PH City Pop2, 2 food stored, 23 hammer in workboat
Math has 217 beakers (4 turns away)
100% science rate is 36 bpt
Gold stored is 23 with -1 gpt
Worker has roaded copper on turn 50
Academy due on turn 66
Exploratory workboat was built 2 turns earlier

 

[Cactus Pete]

Appreciate the effort, SCT. The new plan looks a bit better, unless we need the copper hooked up ASAP for an axe. How likely is that?

 

[killercane]

We need 25 food to grow to size 4, and I believe I switched gold hill for grassland forest or clams for 1 or 2 turns to enable growth to 4 on T35. The worker should be on plains hill roading the turn before and finish the turn the settler is produced. I can give an exact sequence this afternoon when I have time.

 

[ShannonCT]

We need 25 food to grow to size 4, and I believe I switched gold hill for grassland forest or clams for 1 or 2 turns to enable growth to 4 on T35.

Hmm... I tried this and I needed to spend 3 turns not working gold to get to Pop4 on turn 35. I don't like this idea. Even if it gets us Writing on the same turn, it might mean getting CoL 1 turn later. Any production gain could be lost by getting Bureaucracy 1 turn later, and getting GLH 1 turn later. Since the bottleneck for Oracle is research, I'm loathe to do anything that might slow down research without a significant benefit.

 

[leif erikson]

Even if it gets us Writing on the same turn, it might mean getting CoL 1 turn later. Any production gain could be lost by getting Bureaucracy 1 turn later, and getting GLH 1 turn later. Since the bottleneck for Oracle is research, I'm loathe to do anything that might slow down research without a significant benefit.

I agree. In play testing, the time to get to Code of Laws is definitely the bottleneck.

Once Killer posts his sequence, I suggest we try it through Oracle and see what the benefits versus costs are.

 

[ShannonCT]

I agree. In play testing, the time to get to Code of Laws is definitely the bottleneck.

Once Killer posts his sequence, I suggest we try it through Oracle and see what the benefits versus costs are.

It seems like the ultimate benefit of the extra hammers could be an extra axeman down the line when we're ready to attack Shaka. We need Construction to build cats before we can attack, so the extra axe wouldn't make the attack start any earlier. It could only make it end earlier.

 

[leif erikson]

It seems like the ultimate benefit of the extra hammers could be an extra axeman down the line when we're ready to attack Shaka. We need Construction to build cats before we can attack, so the extra axe wouldn't make the attack start any earlier. It could only make it end earlier.

OK, but the loss of the Oracle and a delay in getting to Bureacracy would cause a far longer delay in getting an army built to go get Shaka, no?

We also need to plan on how we test for the longer versus shorter game? Although it will be hard to do that until we get the info on Shaka's territory, so it is a moot point for the moment...

 

[killercane]

I think if you try to:

Switch worker to wb, use copper, cow, gold; switch to worker when chop comes in and use fish instead of copper at that time, and switch to workboat next turn and use clams to get to size 4 at turn 35 you come out best. I think that is the sequence. Using fish and clams for more turns minimizes gold loss on those turns but you can recoup the gold by working them extra at size 4 earlier. I have been trying to comment for a few hours now but keep getting distracted so sorry for the delay .

 

[Mad Professor]

Significant power jump by Misfits. Having got Oracle, they gear up to hit Shaka...???