Do I understand correctly that at some future time, when we go to war against India and capture just over half (in population terms), of his Hindu cities we would then have to worry that Augustus would call a game-ending vote, and India, being at war with us, might well vote with Caesar?
Been reading a bit and found a couple of things. First, and most important, every civ must have representation, by having the Apostolic Palace religion in at least one of their cities, before a Diplo Victory vote can happen. As Augustus' religion is Hinduism, I am assuming that Hinduism is the religion of the AP. Joao does not have a Hindu city that we know of and we would have to acquire one to be included in the vote. This is another good reason to leave Joao alive and with a few cities. I am unsure how Vassalization affects this formula.
Bibracte has only Judaism, so perhaps we should be careful what cities we capture and keep, although any city on the other continent may be subject to becoming Hindu.
Augustus has a strong, and very friendly, status with Pericles. India is also a good friend of Augustus. Charlemagne is also Pleased with Augustus, so it looks like keeping Joao from getting a Hindu city may be our best hope? Perhaps we shouldn't vassalize him. As long as the civs on the other continent do not have Caravels, they cannot send Missionaries. Let's be careful in not giving Optics away?
Plan for taking Coimbra next turn if new units do not appear there (and HAs have been showing up with some regularity): Bombard with accuracy cat, promote cat to CR2 and attack with it, followed by both maces, attack with the remaining cat if a spear defends, then with the healthy WE, followed if necessary by the cat on board the galleon, and finally with the wounded WE. (Probably want to load a healed WE from Braga onto the galleon before advancing with the cat, so you can eventually sail with it into the captured city and defend against a possible HA.)
Thanks, this is most helpful. Would it be a wise thing to take the Medic promoted Axe along as well to help heal the stack that will be in Coimbra after the battle to quickly prepare for Lagos?
We could sail some Cats, with a protective Ballista, to begin bombarding the city and then walk Maces overland to finish the job.
Essentially agree that there are now better options than macemen, but a one-promotion treb is still useful, especially as the first attacker of a city; therefore, suggest a single treb also be built in Horseville (as well as many others in Ivoryville) as soon as Eng is in. This would give us added flexibility (allow more cat sacrifices, for instance) and power in finishing Joao.
I think this also has merit. A Treb or two to use after the cease fire would be very helpful. We shall see what units need replacement after Coimbra and Lisbon.
The congregated triremes did not attack a loaded galleon sailing the coast on several occasions, but I’ve no idea whether the game programming absolutely prohibits this.
Let's hope that continues...
Under what conditions would Joao become Caesar’s vassal and not ours? Having read the discussion in the thread, I’m still unclear what our plans are regarding cease fire/peace/capitulation after which set of cities is captured. [There is a city SE of Gergovia on the furs.] Also, I’m concerned with making Joao our vassal. We would get no gold from city capture, plus we will have use for 100% of his land if we go for Domination. Not saying vassalage is not the thing to do, but creating the need for more off-continent cities to be captured, held, and maintained is certainly a negative.
Been reading up on this as well. Please see
this strategy article on Vassals. It is written for Warlords but later does talk some about
What it does not do is explain the conditions under which a civ will voluntarily become another civs vassal seeking protection from being destroyed by a more powerful civ, like us.
It does explain, later in the thread, that the cities that the vassal has are counted as our cites to calculate number of cities maintenance costs. It seems that is the increased cost of maintenance, another reason to consider signing cease fire and not taking on a vassal.
As I understand the plan, we would eventually take all the cities we can currently see including:
Lisbon
Coimbra
Lagos
Evore and
Guimaraes
The city you mention must be SE of Guimaraes and not Gergovia (which is in Celtic lands?)
I think the problem with Joao is that, since he knows Augustus, he will voluntarily become a vassal of Rome and we would find ourselves at war with Rome. That would terminate our deals with Rome and could complicate the planning for operations against Boudica. It may also be more fruitful to sign peace, or a Cease Fire and not keep him as a vassal to prevent any diplo victory vote?
If you haven’t noticed, leif, there is a recently captured worker underneath our stack southeast of Lisbon. If Joao’s workers end up huddled in one of his remaining cities, probably need to get at least one of our post-horse-re-pasture workers into Portugal.
Yes, thank you, I noticed. Once we capture Lisbon, we should keep an eye out for Workers heading south? Perhaps we can intercept some of them fleeing Lagos or Evora? There is one near Coimbra, perhaps he'll run in seeking protection?
If we research to Physics at 100%, getting full use of a possible GS from Ulundi might be cutting it close, so keep an eye on that.
OK, will do. How many beakers of Physics will a Great Scientist contribute to Physics?
I started a road SW of Furville because I changed my mind (not good planning, obviously) about cutting the forest down on that tile, and I didn’t want to waste a turn both getting onto the forested furs to go elsewhere and again getting back onto that tundra forest in the future to chop it. Thought that it would be better to wait for the cultural expansion (realized it was only 19 turns away) and get a few more hammers from the chop and thought a road would likely have some future utility as all three tundra forest will get chopped. Was planning to move that worker, via its road, 1N of Furville to chop and build a workshop on the grassland. (Two workers SE of Furville intended to build workshop after forest chopped.) Perhaps it would be better to go ahead and chop the forest, but, if not, then I would argue the road is the best way to minimize my error.
OK, thank you. Just wondered where he was going?
Not sure we need to devote more than one worker to chopping the Taj. It’s not critical that we complete it immediately after Joao’s cities get out of anarchy.
Agreed. SCT also pointed out the need to pre-build Workshops on the Cottaged tiles in and around X-ville, Ivoryville and Pigville.
![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
Looks like it is back to lighting candle and doing Haka's... 
