We started the game with Machinery. MC is just an extra tech. The only reason to get it is for Forges. Personally, I think that the Forges only become necessary in the late game for this challenge and we should be able to trade for MC later on before they are necessary.
SGOTM 09 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
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BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
True, MC is just an extra tech.
But forges on quick are even more important than in any other speed.
There's a big difference between produce one item in 4 turns rather than in 5.
After 4 items you'll have saved 4 turns, having one more for free.
Thus you can produce 5 items in 20 turns instead of 4.
When we'll build paratroopers this will make a big difference.
Having one more tech to trade is important.
A perfect beeline to Rifling is the way to lose the game.
But i can force myself to try a test with this strategy.
In very straight beeline to Edu, we also need to burn a GS on part of it. The turns he saves can be more essential than the better overall benefit to settle him. Let me see.
But forges on quick are even more important than in any other speed.
There's a big difference between produce one item in 4 turns rather than in 5.
After 4 items you'll have saved 4 turns, having one more for free.
Thus you can produce 5 items in 20 turns instead of 4.
When we'll build paratroopers this will make a big difference.
Having one more tech to trade is important.
A perfect beeline to Rifling is the way to lose the game.
But i can force myself to try a test with this strategy.
In very straight beeline to Edu, we also need to burn a GS on part of it. The turns he saves can be more essential than the better overall benefit to settle him. Let me see.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
I've made a quick test not settling the 2nd GS, but keeping him for save 10 t. on Edu.
Unfortunately, 3rd Gperson was a GSpy.
A settled GS can give his 9 raw
at any research rate: this is great, 'cause we need to REX to 7 cities, but this is a disaster for the economy.
I managed to have rifling later than in my previous attempts and in addition, liberalism was at risk.
It seems that if an AI see the chance to grab the free tech it tries to do it.
Otherwise, he will never research philo, Edu much later.
The detours: i'd like to see your opinions about the usefulness of MoM and its prolonged GAge.
Conclusion: for sure, we'll take rifling from Lib.
BTW in my attempt i suffered also from an early DoW from Hammu. Better forget it. Let's try another variant.
edit: variant tried.
Straight to Lib, rifling on turn 101. But:
Everything is building slowly, even our cheap Universities. The Forge bonus applies to the output
so they arrive 1-2 turns later. And research will suffer.
In my other attempts with forges Lib arrived on turn 103-104 and the 3 main cities were with their forges, universities, airports, barracks and some Xbow for protection.
No point in having Lib 3 turns earlier if we cannot build paratroopers, but we must build forges and structures before begin to build them.
No, on my dead body: MC ASAP. Once we traded for the prerequisite techs, go on.
Mesix spent some post to convince me to settle GSs, and i acknowledge he was right.
But this no-MC-no-forge thing... no, it's wrong, plain wrong
Another fishy thing happened in one of my attempts: i've lost pyramids very early. The only variants on this were the scout and the airship moves... strange, indeed!
Unfortunately, 3rd Gperson was a GSpy.
A settled GS can give his 9 raw
at any research rate: this is great, 'cause we need to REX to 7 cities, but this is a disaster for the economy.I managed to have rifling later than in my previous attempts and in addition, liberalism was at risk.
It seems that if an AI see the chance to grab the free tech it tries to do it.
Otherwise, he will never research philo, Edu much later.
The detours: i'd like to see your opinions about the usefulness of MoM and its prolonged GAge.
Conclusion: for sure, we'll take rifling from Lib.
BTW in my attempt i suffered also from an early DoW from Hammu. Better forget it. Let's try another variant.
edit: variant tried.
Straight to Lib, rifling on turn 101. But:
Everything is building slowly, even our cheap Universities. The Forge bonus applies to the output
so they arrive 1-2 turns later. And research will suffer.In my other attempts with forges Lib arrived on turn 103-104 and the 3 main cities were with their forges, universities, airports, barracks and some Xbow for protection.
No point in having Lib 3 turns earlier if we cannot build paratroopers, but we must build forges and structures before begin to build them.
No, on my dead body: MC ASAP. Once we traded for the prerequisite techs, go on.
Mesix spent some post to convince me to settle GSs, and i acknowledge he was right.
But this no-MC-no-forge thing... no, it's wrong, plain wrong
Another fishy thing happened in one of my attempts: i've lost pyramids very early. The only variants on this were the scout and the airship moves... strange, indeed!
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BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
I discovered another thing: often IBT the advisor gives a pop-up asking to build settlers - mainly, or else.
This is particularly annoying, mainly in the late game. But answer yes in the early game
The RNG can take count of this in some way.
Then, go in the city build queue and simply delete the settler or anything the advisor can have put in queue. Better if you do it after a couple turns.
I noticed the game will go better doing this. I have also a suspect that with RE on this can be even more important.
When we'll have not great problems with a large empire, we can just say "i'm the one in charge", but in the early game let's answer yes.
This is particularly annoying, mainly in the late game. But answer yes in the early game
The RNG can take count of this in some way.
Then, go in the city build queue and simply delete the settler or anything the advisor can have put in queue. Better if you do it after a couple turns.
I noticed the game will go better doing this. I have also a suspect that with RE on this can be even more important.
When we'll have not great problems with a large empire, we can just say "i'm the one in charge", but in the early game let's answer yes.
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
Huh? How does the game "go better"?
berserks01
Obviously Very Confused
I think Blub meant "better" as in the RNG will turn out more positively for the player.
I dunno, how sure are you of this Blub? I've never actually tried it out before, it would be nice to know if it's true.
I dunno, how sure are you of this Blub? I've never actually tried it out before, it would be nice to know if it's true.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
I can't describe it scientifically.
Just try to play some dozen turns answer "i'm the one in charge" then play the same number of turns, from the same start answer "yes, do it". The difficulty is do exactly the same things for the rest.
You will notice some difference.
It seems the RNG take in account your answers, your research and your builds to make happen positive or negative things.
Like Leader attitudes, demands, wonder lost and so on.
BTW have you noticed that? if you attack a city with the exact number of attackers/defenders, you have good chances to lose a fight at high (>95%) probabilities. Attack with one or 2 more units than defenders and you'll win below 80%.
Of course not sure about this, call it a sensation.
When we'll have the pleasure to see your PPP?
I think you just assure to have read and fully understood my #3.
one last thing. Civics: for sure we'll revolt to caste/bureau right after the Oracle.
No one mentioned slavery, and i think it's not even worth a mention in this game.
If we manage the Pyramids we'll revolt to Repr ASAP, then to FR in some GAge.
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Even if you're right, how can you predict if changing the RNG in this way is a good or bad thing ? it's just a different thing, which I would have thought will have no material difference outside of a test game, as we're only playing it once....
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
PPP? Well, your #3 is pretty much exactly as I'd play it, although I'd probably never be building 2 wonders from the only 2 cities with 2 warriors defending while the workers build FPs. 
Sgotm is so good! 
Why drop back to one scientist after the academy GS pops, tho? Is it just to stagnate and maintain/ balance? What about workers? I'm guessing it's all FPs for the near future. The Athens worker will finish the incomplete FP, what about the Launch Pad one? The GFH? I'm thinking I'll stop at turn 45, giving everyone a last chance to argue over oracle free tech and the next research tech, if that suits. I plan to play in about 20 hrs, but can do earlier if there are no issues.
Sgotm is so good! Why drop back to one scientist after the academy GS pops, tho? Is it just to stagnate and maintain
/ balance? What about workers? I'm guessing it's all FPs for the near future. The Athens worker will finish the incomplete FP, what about the Launch Pad one? The GFH? I'm thinking I'll stop at turn 45, giving everyone a last chance to argue over oracle free tech and the next research tech, if that suits. I plan to play in about 20 hrs, but can do earlier if there are no issues.
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
RNG changes, maybe (although logically I can't see how), but this I can't believe. A hidden, hidden attitude modifier?
Well, I don't mind indulging your superstition, Blubmuz 
I just hope when we have more cities, we don't lose hammers to forgotten queued settlers.
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
Right, we gave up on that idea when we settled on the corn.
I remembered what I was going to say about the one scientist thing. When Launch finishes the FP, it will have an extra
, so wouldn't it be better to grow to 7 asap after the GS? Or does that slow maths too much?
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Of course we must agree on this, but after my tests i think this is the research path:PPP? Well, your #3 is pretty much exactly as I'd play it, although I'd probably never be building 2 wonders from the only 2 cities with 2 warriors defending while the workers build FPs.
Why drop back to one scientist after the academy GS pops, tho?
We need to work the For.Hill to complete the GW in the same turn as Oracle Is it just to stagnate and maintain
Then we'll grow to 7 by working the fish and put Mids in build, but we'll switch to worker then settler. By then we can decide to speed with only 1 sci or delay a couple turns with 2 sci
What about workers? I'm guessing it's all FPs for the near future. The Athens worker will finish the incomplete FP No after a road in the windmill he will go in to FP a GLF NE of Athens, what about the Launch Pad one? The GFH? no, a windmill there (after BW) he will go in the GLF along the coast to FP both I'm thinking I'll stop at turn 45, giving everyone a last chance to argue over oracle free tech and the next research tech, if that suits. I plan to play in about 20 hrs, but can do earlier if there are no issues.
CS from Oracle
Alpha
Currency
MC
Paper
Edu
GP
Lib by turn 103
game almost won
The airship can be the key for our success.
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
I'm not really sure why this is necessary, but I suppose we don't want it delayed behind a turn of civic anarchy.
More roads near Athens. I think I can hear WTs head exploding.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Xposted, i think.Right, we gave up on that idea when we settled on the corn.bah
I remembered what I was going to say about the one scientist thing. When Launch finishes the FP, it will have an extra
Anyway our cities are always close to the happy cap, even with representation.
Since our bet is research by specialists which also exploits our philo trait slavery is not suited for this game.
Where the hell can we build cottages if we must FP all the grassland?
Damn Gyathaar, give us back our luxuries
How do you think to connect city #3 without roads? first build an airport? good catch with 3 hammers/turn.
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Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
Damn Gyathaar, give us back our luxuries
I did look more closely at furry island than I have before in this game. I can't wait to get a city out there.
How do you think to connect city #3 without roads? first build an airport? good catch with 3 hammers/turn.
Now that's a great idea!Just one other PPP thing... the scout will head south and leave civ scouting for the blimp.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just one other PPP thing... the scout will head south and leave civ scouting for the blimp.
scout Hammu's territory, THEN head south.
Not much it's great risk. i'd like to use the scout to fogbust in the city site near the coastal river, south of Launch Pad.
We're plenty of time to explore with airships later.
BTW i used this tactic to found cities:
1) send the settler unescorted to our borders
2) fogbust with the airship
3) put the settler in place if nothing dangerous is revealed
4) airlift a xbow some turns later, even 5 or 10... who cares?
Settler are faster than xbows and you save lots of turns this way. Also airlift the settler to the city closer to his destination is a great advantage.
Roads are already built, sometime with the last tile only to be roaded.
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Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
Hmm...I though we had heaps of time before having to look at Hammy, then I remembered... it's QUICK! Point taken.
That's not a bad idea about settling. No doubt it'll come in handy... if we get an airport in place before we finish REX.
That's not a bad idea about settling. No doubt it'll come in handy... if we get an airport in place before we finish REX.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Thanks for the acknoweledgement
An airport is clearly part of this strategy: not only it will give +1TR to the capital, but the turns to build it will be compensated by the faster settlers placements.
If, but i suppose when, we'll settle the furry island we'll need a galley to bring the settler in place. But the worker and garrison can be airlifted.
edit: if you missed I WANT A MEDAL!!!
edit2: i was forgetting: put to sleep the missionary, there're high chances Confu will autospread.
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I don't see much usefulness in it. I think we will have 1-2 GA max in this game. On quick speed they last 6 turns each. Having them prolonged to 9 turns is okay, but there is a better use of the build time IMHO. There really isn't much return on investment unless several GA is part of the strategy. Since they cost increasingly more great people with each GA, they are a bit...meh.
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