SGOTM 09 - Fifth Element

[greatbeyond]

The captured cities were given Theaters as an initial build to expand their borders quickly with Artists. Perhaps it is not the best idea, something to "discuss" I suppose.

We should consider the National Epic in Pindus. With just a GE and the Free Scientists, we are getting 56 gpp per turn. If we build the NE there, we'll have 112 points per turn and even more by using citizens. Hopefully the few unforested tiles will grow trees.

You'll see that I have started a farm on one of the grassland tiles. Pindus needs to grow a little faster. After it has grown we can always convert the tile to something else.

 

[Mesix]

Portuguese Empire has been eliminated

This is the most important message in the turn log. Nice job! I'll DL the save and analyze the overall situation in more detail later.

 

[BLubmuz]

This is the most important message in the turn log. Nice job! I'll DL the save and analyze the overall situation in more detail later.

Agreed!

Strange those rifles... never see them in my tests.
Wasn't he researching MS?

I'll comment in detail after i can see the save. After analyze it, i'll try the test Mesix suggested (war in Europe). In few hours i'll update the roster and the time schedule.

edit: sorry, a typo made my previous schedule wrong. corrected now.

strange nobody pointed it out, perhaps haven't you read it?

 

[greatbeyond]

I checked your time line and see we are a turn ahead of schedule. I don't want to get to confident yet as I don't like the looks of Murky Waters and X-team. I never count CRC out either. They post infrequently to the forum and have shown the ability to break away from the rest of us. Gypsy Kings and Misfits have nice score graphs but they are behind in power. Perhaps they'll get picked on by the AI

I had this terrible thought that one of them will get a Permanent Alliance and ride WK's or HC's coattails to the stars. Should we be thinking something similar? I know getting the required turns in, of a shared war or Defensive Pact, takes us halfway to our projected launch date, but I don't want to miss a trick.

 

[unclethrill]

PA may not even be on. I made that mistake in a GOTM once.

 

[BLubmuz]

PA may not even be on. I made that mistake in a GOTM once.

I confirm: PA is not on. But a PA on monarch is not that big advantage. you and your partner will suffer from the "team penalty" and i doubt a Monarch AI can help much. Maybe a tech or 2.

After next TS, when the most of the new cities will go out of revolt, our score will increase.

But some team can have conquered a lot in Asia and/or Europe, maybe in Africa, too.
We must see if this will help their finish date or the opposite.

By my experience in a SR game, and i consider it my preferred and strongest VC, We're in a perfect shape as we are:
- good empire size, gradually increased
- great number of specialists
- few tech detours only to take really useful techs (DR and Demo)
- great choice of civics

Let's wait, is matter of a month or some...

 

[BLubmuz]

I got the save open.
Dammit, GB have you read the thread?
We're planning a GM from Pindus and you hired scientists?

We don't build theaters, but Odeons. shame!

You did it again! you chopped a forest to build a useless farm near Braga!

A sinagogue in Nippur? why? for 2 damn hammers?

I was clear: no forest chops in BFC! since the beginning of this SG!

Bah, do what you want, i'm tired to lose time in analysis, tests and plans and you do what you want instead of what is planned.

Now back to FfH, at least i avoid to get

Mesix, Shaka is in sight of rifling. Changing the espionage points we can see his research in few turns. But i Suppose we have to stay quiet.

 

[greatbeyond]

It is now time for the rebuttal:

I got the save open.
Dammit, GB have you read the thread?
We're planning a GM from Pindus and you hired scientists? I went back to Page 44 and can't find any reference to putting all GMs to work in Pindus, perhaps it is in the thread somewhere but certainly has not been discussed lately. It may be in there somewhere, perhaps new glasses will help. I also checked Page 1, nothing... The Computer assigned all Scientists so that's the way I left it. I left it for what, 3 turns. Fire them all and the manager (me too!)

We don't build theaters, but Odeons. shame! We! "Dur Kin. - Bank 4t, market, obs, anything not odeon or workers
Borsippa - Harbor 5T, if you capture Evora with Forge, OK, otherwise Moai here
Sippar - Forge 3T, Library, we don't need an Odeon 4T" Of course, I looked at the health and happiness benefits of Odeons, which none of the cities needed as much as I felt they need to expand. Perhaps I misinterpreted your comments above to mean you had something against Odeons

You did it again! you chopped a forest to build a useless farm near Braga! Mon Dieu! I chopped a forest in a 2nd rate city with no other means of growing quickly to get it to a decent size population. Did you miss the Worker Farming the tile? It also sped up the CH. Do we want a lot of small cities? What value are they? Perhaps you would rather I irrigate the Plains for much slower growth?

A sinagogue in Nippur? why? for 2 damn hammers?
"Nippur - Temple 1T, Market 5T, Synagogue 6T no, something else" I looked at everything left to build and decided the minor benefit (2H and happiness) from the Synagogue were worth more than the other choices

I was clear: no forest chops in BFC! since the beginning of this SG! There is an exception to every rule. This was not in a city that needs a FP or the health benefit from a forest. In the cost benefit ratio, chopping won out.

Bah, do what you want, i'm tired to lose time in analysis, tests and plans and you do what you want instead of what is planned. If I did what I wanted, I would have gone for Paras along time ago... I try to go with the decisions the TEAM agrees on ahead of time. If I use my judgment and you don't like the result; I hope I don't screw up something really important and you'll get a chance to replay.

Now back to FfH, at least i avoid to get

If it is that relaxing then we should all play it.

Mesix, Shaka is in sight of rifling. Changing the espionage points we can see his research in few turns. But i Suppose we have to stay quiet.

I FELT LIKE TYPING IN ALL CAPS BUT REPRESSED THE URGE

oops!

I did go back and find on Page 43 discussion about a GM from Pindus. There is discussion following about whether it is better to get a GM or a GS. This is when Mesix was showing the relative value between the two and a GS seemed to win the discussion. Since then there was nothing fixed about would be done. I'm sure it was an oversight not to specify it, but the damage is done.

A quick quiz. What was discussed on Page 39, anyone know without looking? I sure don't!

 

[BLubmuz]

I think you can play when you want, the GM for Sushi is agreed.
I don't know if it's better build the Moai in Evora or Borsippa. If you capture Evora with Forge we can build Moai there, otherwise we have to wait too long, better Borsippa.

This post was the conclusion of some 15 posts of discussions about Sushi.

I don't think it was worth to repeat posted ideas. I suppose everyone read the thread.

Braga needs a WB to grow and a forge. You did nothing of those.

 

[Simon_c]

Ho Hum.
(ten chars)

 

[greatbeyond]

A WB in Braga will help toward growth. Unfortunately we need a few more ships to prevent pillaging of our nets. The Forge could be next, then a WB. We could build a Frigate in Panama to help with Barb watch.

Switch the Scientists in Pindus to Merchants. Build the Nat Epic next to get our great person in under 10 turns.

Redistribute the Paratroops to key positions around our territory in case someone tries to make any landings.

 

[Sweetacshon]

OK, here's the list from p1:

TS 23 goals:
research: Elect, Steam
Trades: Watch the alerts and every turn F4 for techs and resources + F10 and city tour.
demands: show them the direction to Hell for any demand. But gently. If Shaka ask some reasonable item, give him
Cities:
LaunchPad: Keep always at least 4Sci + 1Eng at work
Any city: structures, more structures. The Jewish cities can build a Jewish temple, mainly to increase the (we own the AP )
GPersons: If GS, settle. If GSpy, destroy your PC. If a GE, keep him at sleep: some WW can be rushed
Workers: chop everything right out any BFC, but not Pindus: we need useless FPs to spread forests.
Airship: the map is known. We'll use it to recon in wartime. Do what you want.
Religion: we'll never adopt a religion.
Civics: we're well as we are.
Espionage: Now we can set all to 1.

GB stated these so well, I'm not going to retype:
Switch the Scientists in Pindus to Merchants. Build the Nat Epic next to get our great person in under 10 turns.

Redistribute the Paratroops to key positions around our territory in case someone tries to make any landings.

Basically it's boost the economy in all cities. If there're no buildings left, it's gold. Order will be along the lines of forge/ch/market/grocer/bank/harbour/uni/obs/lab/customs but of course depends on local condition. Odeons, etc may need to go in if happiness is an issue. Do you want me to list all builds, or is this sufficient? Throw in a couple of frigates and the required wb's as well, from the panama area.

Otherwise, I don't see any other issues arising in this TS, but I'll keep a close eye on diplomacy. MM every turn and press enter 6 times, fingers crossed.

Sorry about the delay, I didn't realise I was up at first.

 

[greatbeyond]

The search dogs hadn't been let out yet anyhow.

There are some other cities that will benefit from WBs too. They'll just need a Navy to protect them.

As far as the place holder builds in the newly captured cities, they may need some fine tuning once they come out of revolt. Make sure you check and MM them as soon as you get the pop-up when they come out of revolt. There is a discussion in the last couple of pages how to do it.

 

[Mesix]

The war with Joao is over. Shouldn't TS length increase again? 5 turns per TS is slow going.

 

[BLubmuz]

There are some other cities that will benefit from WBs too. They'll just need a Navy to protect them.

Protect from what? The 2 frigates we already have are more than enough, until destroyers.

The war with Joao is over. Shouldn't TS length increase again? 5 turns per TS is slow going.

With 26 (or 27?) cities and a tech every 3 turns or less, 5 turns/TS are the correct thing to do. A lot of things can happen in 5 turns from now on.

Just to tell one, a GAge can be planned for the TS after Sweeta's one.

Sweeta, we have 3 GEs: one is to complete SoL, one for Mining Inc, after Elec burn one on Broadway in Blubz.

 

[greatbeyond]

Five turns is fine with me. It takes quite an effort to MM every turn and check all the options.

We only have the two Frigates, one on each coast. There's no way they can cover the whole coast. On the other hand, we don't want to build too many more and then have them obsolete. Probably one more for each coast would be enough. I like to station them off the coast a bit to stand watch for invasion forces.

A GE for Broadway? It gives 50% culture and a Happy face, but we don't need more culture and 1 more happy face doesn't seem worth it. What about Wall Street? Are there any other wonders that we want that take a long time to build? Christo Redentor or 3G Dam?

 

[unclethrill]

A GE for Broadway? It gives 50% culture and a Happy face, but we don't need more culture and 1 more happy face doesn't seem worth it. What about Wall Street? Are there any other wonders that we want that take a long time to build? Christo Redentor or 3G Dam?

I agree unless there is a chance of someone else getting a culture win before we launch. Was there a specific reason to build Broadway, Blubz??

Why not build the FP in one of Joao's cities with one if we are itching to build something with him?

 

[BLubmuz]

I agree unless there is a chance of someone else getting a culture win before we launch. Was there a specific reason to build Broadway, Blubz??

Why not build the FP in one of Joao's cities with one if we are itching to build something with him?

Broadway? you're forgetting we'll lose the furs and whales soon (obsolete). We must change our trades with musicals.
WS in LP probably is not worth a GE: 5-6 turns in GAge should be enough.
OTOH, Broadway must be built where we'll never pop a GPerson. Blubz is good as any other city. Not in Athens, not in Pindus, of course.

In case Shaka DoWs us, we'll badly need luxuries. Just verify our situation without his luxuries.

BTW, the FP is already built. In Sparta.
I suspect you don't MM much in your TS. Don't you?

 

[greatbeyond]

I hadn't thought about losing our trades, hmm, perhaps it will be worth it.

I think the FP finished during my just completed TS on the 2nd turn.

 

[unclethrill]

Nope. I try to let the computer take care of that. Those programmers worked so hard.