SGOTM 09 - Team CFR

[Dynamic]

In my test I got Genetics becase of a few Mills but it was just one test. I didn't build a lot of WaterMills because I want to save the room for Forests growth and most of Hills already had Forests... so effect from Mills was very small.

 

[Lexad]

Next - if we decide to build Oracle, our capital is likely the most developed city by that time. However, this will poision our gene pool with GProphet points. This might not be so bad as later (after NatPark) it will become overpopulated with scientists, so 1. the probability will be dismal and 2. we could use an extra non-GS GPerson for a GAge. However, then we must be ready to get GA for Academy in the 2nd city before GP (thanx for cheap libs) and the 2nd for Edu. As PPress is blocking us from using GS on lightbulbing Chemistry and Bio, I doo not think we're in a rush for more than 2 GS before Bio.

 

[Lexad]

The alternative is to get 3+ more GS to part-bulb PPress, Chemistry and Bio, but this will put a strain on our expansion and we would still be able to get them easily after. However, what shall we use those GS for after, I'm not entirely sure - by then our combined science should give a GS-effect in a turn or a bit more. So, might consider it, with the added advantage of Philo trait.

 

[Dynamic]

I have started the new test on the same map as previous one. This time I'm trying to expand faster and to found more cities. I also delayed Oracle (after Alpha) and built it on turn 53 in Capital, took Electricity. 5 cities at this time.

 

[Obormot]

OK, let us see how all those techs that were given to us (Fascism, Scientific Method, Physics, Medicine, Flight, Machinery, Replaceable Parts and Superconductors) will influence our game.

1. Early access to units: crossbowmen & airships. Crossbows will be available as soon as we (or AI) get archery & iron. This is going to make wars significantly more difficult if we let the AI hook up iron. As for the airships, I don't know what to expect, I have 0 experience with air combat.

2. Early access to improvements: windmills, watermill, forest preserves, lumber mills. Tile output for forest preserves is mediocre (2/1/2), but they give happiness, which is HUGE in the early game. Windmills are better then hills in this game (2/2/3 for green hills & 1/3/3 for plains hills). Watermills are not that good, but not bad either (2/2/1, 1/3/1). Lumber mills require forest, and seem to be useless compared to forest preserves.

3. Obsolete wonders & buildings: Great Library, Parthenon, Temple or Artemis, monastery - all these won't be available.

4. Revealed resources: oil, uranium. We'll see these resources, but won't be able too hook them up.

5. Access to other late game techs: Electricity & Genetics. We can get one of these techs via an Oracle slingshot. Electricity boosts windmills & watermills, genetics is more expensive, but doesn't boost our developement.

6. Access to civics: Enviromentalism & Police state. Enviromentalism boosts forest preserves & windmills, we should switch to ASAP. Don't know about police state, but I think it might also be usefull for the 25% military unit production bonus.

7. Access to buildings: airports, hospitals, labs. All these are too expensive to be of any use.

 

[Dynamic]

Right. Note that Enviromentalism also gives +6 health.

 

[Lexad]

1. As for the airships, I don't know what to expect, I have 0 experience with air combat

It can remove ~20% of base health off one top defender in a turn. Against longbows it's pretty muich the same as removing 50% city defense.

4. Revealed resources: oil, uranium. We'll see these resources, but won't be able too hook them up

We can pre-hook them up using forts, so they get online the turn we discover the techs.

7. Access to buildings: airports, hospitals, labs. All these are too expensive to be of any use.

Agree. Also, labs require observatories, i.e. Astro, which is not necessary for space race once we have Physics (Balbes's note).

 

[Dynamic]

It looks like we will switch to Enviromentalism at turn 0 while moving the Settler. Police State is expensive civic and it's useful only if we expect building not only Warriors.

 

[Dynamic]

We will research Astro, of course, but after Assembly Plant.

 

[Obormot]

It looks like we will switch to Enviromentalism at turn 0 while moving the Settler. Police State is expensive civic and it's useful only if we expect building not only Warriors.

I agree, there is no need to switch to police state immidiately. We can make the switch to police state later, for example together with slavery, if we find a close neighbour.

About Oracle slingshot: Genetics costs 7k beakers at quick. That should be something like 5 turns of research at this stage of the game. And by how many turns are we going to slow down our developement by building Oracle? IMO a really early Oracle doesn't pay off.

 

[Dynamic]

About Oracle slingshot: Genetics costs 7k beakers at quick. That should be something like 5 turns of research at this stage of the game. And by how many turns are we going to slow down our developement by building Oracle? IMO a really early Oracle doesn't pay off.

If we will expand to 10-15 cities Genetics will be researched in 2-3 turns in the late game. Building Oracle around turn 55 doesn't require a high cost for developvent, but... it may be too late...

 

[Bemep]

If on a start fascism was given us, means the constabulary state can may need to us - it also as in the case of gun hanging on a wall. Therefore better than him to accept at once - possibly for a contact (and exchange by technologies) without airship not to treat, and 25% in any way will not be superfluous.

 

[Obormot]

It looks like we will switch to Enviromentalism at turn 0 while moving the Settler.

Where do you want to move the settler? 2N gives us fish and makes a perfect GP farm, but we loose forest and green tiles, which is bad for the long term. 1S might give us more river tiles, but we cannot tell for sure. Perhaps we should just settle in place and make the switch to enviromentalism & slavery after BW. At quick speed every turn is important.

 

[Lexad]

@Betep
Police State has High upkeep cost bs Low for starting civic. We do not plan to build army or fight long so far, but we might incur extra costs as we expand and grow.

 

[Lexad]

1S might give us more river tiles, but we cannot tell for sure. Perhaps we should just settle in place and make the switch to enviromentalism & slavery after BW

So far we plan 1S, leaving place for another city in the north with fish and 3 forests. Settling north gives you too much water you cannot efficiently use w/o lhouse (not in tech plan), fintrait, colossus and Moai.
BW is also not in the techplan so far, we plan to trade for it.
Our GP farm will be more than we can handle with 2 corn, even before we get all the free specialists with National Park.

 

[Obormot]

Yes, 1S does seem to be the better option.

Not researching BW? I don't like the idea. We could make whipping really efficent with corn, granary and the happiness from forest reserves. If we don't have any AI neighbours, skipping BW will get us in trouble. If we do have neighbours, why don't we axe rush them?

 

[Lexad]

We could make whipping really efficent with corn, granary and the happiness from forest reserves

The point is, do we really need whipping early (1st 50 turns)? We can produce settlers&workers, growing on granary/lib/oracle, there isn't much to pop-rush. And thn we'll have Alpha and trade for BW.
Axe rusher It's quick speed, and AI build troops early, so I doubt axe-rush will be efficient - by then they can have IW and thus xbows. Although, if we see ourselves cornered by peaceful AI, this is an option to consider.

 

[Dynamic]

We will have Alpha near turn 40 so we will easy trade BW. We really don't need Slavery before Forges.

 

[Obormot]

With happiness from the forests slavery with granary should be more efficent then building settlers/workers.

 

[Lexad]

When you build you also get commerce from windmills/preserves. And if we go for Wri vs AH or Phood, pop-rush will not be that efficient without granaries. We should use slavery if we see strong competition for remaining settling points, but that'll be towards the end.

Maybe Obormot could test an early axe-rush for these settings and share his findings with the rest.