SGOTM 09 - Team CFR
- Thread starter AlanH
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LowtherCastle
Deity
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Then please focus on strategic thinking, problems and decisions. We know more or less what actually happened.Didn't expect SGOTM10 so soon.Now everybody is thinking about the new game, so maybe it is too late, but I'll try to finish the summary ASAP. Maybe I'll just make it a bit more brief in the final stage.
LowtherCastle
Deity
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Thanks for the summary, Obormot. Very much appreciated. Imo, the rest is pretty clear from Dynamic's running commentary before you guys finished the game.
You seem to think GW and Pyramids by Hammi weren't that crucial. I wonder. Shaka built both in our game. Still, I think our big mistake was overestimating how much production power we needed to finish the game.
You seem to think GW and Pyramids by Hammi weren't that crucial. I wonder. Shaka built both in our game. Still, I think our big mistake was overestimating how much production power we needed to finish the game.
Yes, the end is quite obvious, but I am still going to do a final update just to finish it.
Pyramids certainly helped, but how many turns you think we gained because of free Pyramids? Our research rate before national park was 400 beakers, after national park with representation - 800 beakers. Without representation it would have been 600 beakers. In 5 turns we discover constitution, so we loose 1K beakers or so. OK, maybe the Pyramids won us 1-1.5 turns not 0.5 as I said before. But not more.
Great Wall wasn't very important after the barbs built airport in Atlantis. BTW, you can check the saves and see that it happened much later in our game, then in your or CRC's.
I still think your biggest mistake was cottaging. The number of troops you built looks right to me, given your slower research rate (cities had more time to pay back the cost then for CRC).
Pyramids certainly helped, but how many turns you think we gained because of free Pyramids? Our research rate before national park was 400 beakers, after national park with representation - 800 beakers. Without representation it would have been 600 beakers. In 5 turns we discover constitution, so we loose 1K beakers or so. OK, maybe the Pyramids won us 1-1.5 turns not 0.5 as I said before. But not more.
Great Wall wasn't very important after the barbs built airport in Atlantis. BTW, you can check the saves and see that it happened much later in our game, then in your or CRC's.
I still think your biggest mistake was cottaging. The number of troops you built looks right to me, given your slower research rate (cities had more time to pay back the cost then for CRC).
Sam_Yeager
Another Original Geezer
Thank you very much for doing this Obormot. It's very interesting to read. 
culdeus
Emperor
21.04
Dynamic runs some tests that confirm that our settling is behind our science, so we decide to delay our 2nd GS and concentrate on settling.
Can you break this down a bit?
Dynamic runs some tests that confirm that our settling is behind our science, so we decide to delay our 2nd GS and concentrate on settling.
Can you break this down a bit?
One of the main goals at that stage of the game was to get Oxford built quickly, which requires having 6 decent cities & education. It is important to determine which of the two requirements will be the bottleneck. It was more or less clear that in this game it would be REXing, as we had a relatively high research rate (no happiness limit in the capital thanks to the forest preserves), while settling was slowed down by the need to have adequate defense from the barbs. But just to be sure, Dynamic made a test save in WB and run a simulation.
This was one of the key points in the game. We spent a huge amount of time discussing (IIRC 3 weeks without a turnset played), but still ended up playing very far from optimal.
This was one of the key points in the game. We spent a huge amount of time discussing (IIRC 3 weeks without a turnset played), but still ended up playing very far from optimal.
culdeus
Emperor
So if the goal is to have 6 cities able to pump out a university shortly after education is finished how did you test this? Through test games or through some other estimation method? I guess that was my question.
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
Thanks very much for the summary, Obormot! I really like DwarfSleepy's suggestion in the SGOTM10 sign-up thread that there be a lurker's thread where non-participants can discuss and compare different teams' approaches. Perhaps we could encourage them to keep running tallies of all teams' dates for techs, number of cities, wonders, etc. This would be a fantastic resource for all teams and really get the lurkers involved in a meaningful way. I enjoy the SGOTMs but have always felt the weakest part of the experience was the difficulty in comparing strategies and tactics used by all the teams once you've finished. After the game is over you really don't want to read through a dozen threads and very few people are willing to write summaries for others (you being a notable exception 
).
).Team discussion wasn't in english, so I felt that making a summary is necessary. Otherwise I don't think I would have bothered. I like the idea of a lurker thread, the only problem I see with it is that it might encourage people to lurk instead of playing.
I like the idea of a lurker thread, the only problem I see with it is that it might encourage people to lurk instead of playing. 
DwarfSleepy
The Sleeper
I'm not sure about keeping people away from playing... The reason I suggested a lurker discussion thread is because I don't see myself having the time to engage in the next SGOTM10, but do want to follow (some of) the teams. I would like to then be able to make remarks like: "have you seen what Murky Waters has done?" or "why didn't Wonder Bumpkins think of such and so". But if I had the time, actually playing in a team would still have my preference. It's the time it takes to get into the game, test scenario's and make real in depth strategy suggestions that is consuming...
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