SGOTM 09 - Team CFR

[Obormot]

That galley looks evil. Gyathar said he didn't give the barbs any units or techs, but he must have added buildings & national wonders to their city, so they build highly promoted units. They might also have hammer boosting buildings, like Moai.

It looks like we'll need to research Metal Casting after CS. This will give us maces (since we already know machinery) and triremes to protect our future cities on the southern coast. Maces can also be used to conquer Babylon, if they have good land.

I got the save and I'll try to further optimise the worker sequence. I'll post the plan for my turnset tomorrow.

 

[Lexad]

We need not MC for maces, CS and Machinery are sufficient. Btw, maces are not that good vs Babylon as its archers have 50% vs melee - need catapults. A city-garrison-promoted bowman in 40%-culture city with 25% fortify bonus will have 3*(1+50%melee+50%city+20%promo+40%culture+25%fortify) = 7.95 against 8.8 of combat-1 promoted mace, implying high casualty rate, and from Python we see that Hammurabi loves to build units, especially city garrisons.

Totally agree on barb city. 1-tile Island can work wonders with Moai, dike, feitoria and loads of settled military instructors. From the promotions on the galley I belieev there to be Red Cross and trading post.

 

[Obormot]

Yes, you are right. So we'll get maces really soon. Mounted units could be better then maces in this game, because of the babylon UU, quick speed and airships. But I guess we cannot afford to waste time researching guilds, so we'll have to use maces.

 

[Lexad]

Then we should definitely use airships if we do not research Construction. We will need Construction for Engineering, which we need for Chemistry, though, so we should decide whether to research ourselves or count on trading from our opponents (highly unlikely). So perhaps get it after CS or Edu.

Also we should have workers building road before our advancing army to save on logistics. Every turn is precious.

 

[Lexad]

As it is, we can build airships while waiting for CS, when we start maces. That means we should limit building construction in our cities. So far (except coastal cities) we need only granaries and [cheap] libraries until Edu, when we need Universities and Oxford.

 

[Dynamic]

In my test after 1000BC I got CS only in 320BC (17 turns from 1000BC, 12-13 turns from CoL). I founded 3 more cities and many Phalanx for defence. May be CS from Oracle isn't so bad...

 

[Lexad]

We shall consider it thoroughly, checking when can we get all prerequisites.

I've checked Hammurabi and Joao's willingness to trade. If they do not know each other, we can't hope to get from them anything except AH and Mining. However, if they do know each other, we can trade for any early tech they have in common, except Masonry. They still won't sell monopoly techs except AH and Mining.

 

[Obormot]

Here is the plan for my turnset. I think it makes sense to build the windmill on the third green hill and the pasture on sheep earlier. We loose 1 worker turn to get the pasture done sooner, but I don't think it is a big deal.

I also don't like an early granary in Corinth, it is a weak city long term, and we better use for worers/settlers. We are short of workers, so I decided that it would be better to build a worker there instead. Once the worker is done it can grow to size 2 in just 3 turns working the pasture.

Turn 31: Athens build worker #3, settler next; Sparta builds WB, library next; worker #2 builds road SW of Athens; worker #1 moves to green hill S,SW of Athens; worker #3 moves to tile W,W of Athens.
Turn 32: Fish net built near Sparta; worker #1 starts windmill; worker #2 prebuilds FP (2 turns); worker #3 starts road W,W of Athens.
Turn 33: Worker #3 builds road W,W of Athens.
Turn 34: Workers #2 & #3 start FP W,W of Athens; Sparta grows to size 3, new citizen works forest.
Turn 35: Worker #1 builds windmill.
Turn 36: Athens build settler, granary next; worker #1 moves E; workers #2 & #3 build FP.
Turn 37: Sparta grows to 4, new citizen works lake; workers #2 & #3 build road to marble city, Corinth settled on marble, works plains forest FP, starts warrior; worker #1 starts FP; science 50% for 1 turn.
Turn 38: Athens grow to 4, new citizen works windmill; workers #2 & #3 move SE,SE and resume building FP.
Turn 39: Sparta builds library, 2 citizens become scientists, start building worker; Corinth builds warrior, starts worker; warrior sent to Athens for happiness; workers #2 & #3 build FP.
Turn 40: Discover Alphabet, Mystricism next, science 0% for 1 turn; worker #2 moves to sheep; worker #3 moves NE,SE; Athens grow to 5, new citizen works plains FP.
Turn 41: Worker #2 starts pasture, worker #3 starts FP.
Turn 42: Discover Mysticism, Meditation next; Worker #1 builds FP S,S of Athens; Athens grow to size 6 and build granary, library next, new citizen works FP.
Turn 43: Worker #1 moves N; worker #2 builds pasture on sheep; citizen in Corinth moved to sheep.
Turn 44: Discover Meditation, Priesthood next; Worker #1 starts FP; worker #2 moves SE; Athens grow to size 7, new citizen works plains FP (that was previously used by Corinth).
Turn 45: Discover Priesthood, Masonry next; GS is born in Sparta, goes to Athens & builds academy there; worker #2 starts FP.
Turn 46: Discover Masonry, Math next, science 0% for 1 turn; Corinth builds worker #4, warrior next; worker #3 builds FP SE of Athens; worker #4 moves SE; Athens grow to size 8 and build library, Oracle next, new citizen works FP.
Turn 47: Athens grow to size 9, new citizen works unimproved forest or lake; worker #3 moves N.
Turn 48: Worker #3 starts FP.
Turn 49: Sparta build worker #5, worker next (?); Corinth grows to size 2 and builds warrior, worker next, new citizen works forest; worker #1 builds FP S of Athens; worker #5 moves SW (?); Athens grow to size 10, new citizen works FP.
Turn 50: Discover Math, CoL next; Athens build Oracle; worker #2 builds FP SE of sheep; worker #4 builds windmill; move citizen in Athens from lake to plains FP, move citizen in Corinth from forest to windmill.

 

[Dynamic]

Turn 36: worker #1 moves E - the better way is NE, because FP on E will give 2 commerce (river corner) but FP on NE will give 3 commerce.
Turn 37: science 50% for 1 turn - really 90% for 1 turn. At this point we will have 10 gold and -4 gpt. 90% will give us -2 gpt so we will have money for 3 turns. We should set 90% on this turn because later Sparta will build Library and increase science coeff.

We should help Hammurabi and Joao with meeting each other. So our Scout after healthing in Joao Capital should reveal tiles NW and if he will meet Babylon Archer, for example, escort him and may be sacrifice our Scout.

I think next session should be till turn 40, Alphabet.

 

[Lexad]

Turn 36: worker #1 moves E - the better way is NE, because FP on E will give 2 commerce (river corner) but FP on NE will give 3 commerce.

3 commerce both.

Edit: should've been - but isn't. 2 commerce from corner, right you are.

 

[Lexad]

2200BC test save, all coins and bulbs in order.

Edit: that was incorrect one, substituted with correct

Edit2: and again...

 

[Obormot]

Just started playing and saw a barbarian SOD near Joao's capital

 

[Obormot]

Played 10 turns.

The scout explored Joao' lands and witnessed the barb SOD attacking Joao's capital. Joao moved one of his archers out of the city, so I thought for a while that the barbs might actually have a chance at capturing the city, but he did move it back the following turn and the barbs died without causing any damage.

Another unexpected event happened at turn 38 when a barb galley arrived from the fog of war east of Sparta. It didn't have any promotions, so propably it was just a randomly spawned unit. I was afraid that it was going to pillage our fishing net near Sparta, but luckily it just sailed away on the next turn. I guess that random barbs cannot enter cultural borders yet. But we'll need some kind of defense soon.

The MM went according to the plan, and I got Alphabet on time, in 1600BC. Both Hammurabi and Joao will trade Mining and AH, but that is all. They also know Mysticism and Archery, but won't trade (no contact between them so far).

Spoiler Turn log :

Turn 30, 2200 BC: Joao II adopts Slavery!

Turn 37, 1780 BC: Corinth has been founded.

Turn 38, 1720 BC: Athens will grow to size 5 on the next turn
Turn 38, 1720 BC: Corinth's cultural boundary is about to expand.

Turn 39, 1660 BC: You have discovered Alphabet!
Turn 39, 1660 BC: Athens has grown to size 5
Turn 39, 1660 BC: The borders of Corinth have expanded!

Turn 40, 1600 BC: New Tech(s) to trade: Joao II, Hammurabi

 

[Obormot]

1600BC test save

 

[Dynamic]

Balbes, where are you?

 

[Dynamic]

As I can interpret the graphs, Murky chose religious branch for early Oracle and Writing after Priest. On turn 25 they have 3 pop (1 city with size 3 or 2+1 with second city on last turn (no culture yet)). They researched 3 techs with no power like Agri-Myst-Medi and built 1 Warrior.
XTeam had pop 2 on turn 22 with 29 points of Power, it looks like they went for Archery after Agri and Mining or AH after that. They also have Warrior. Their power significally increased after that so I think they built some Archers for protection the Capital or southern city.
I still can't understand what's happen with Misfits on turn 49 when they have significant growth of their culture for 1 turn only...

 

[Balbes]

I am back safely (starting today). I am going to participate actively but first I need to catch up. Reading this thread from the beginning now...

edit: It helps that we have fewer pages in our thread than any other team. It helps with reading, but I am not sure about its effect on the quality of our gameplay. Is the Skype thing still going on?

 

[Dynamic]

I am back safely (starting today). I am going to participate actively but first I need to catch up. Reading this thread from the beginning now...

edit: It helps that we have fewer pages in our thread than any other team. It helps with reading, but I am not sure about its effect on the quality of our gameplay. Is the Skype thing still going on?

Yes, only ~1/10 of discussion is posted here, sorry, but using skype inreases productivity in several times... Of course if you will start active posting here we will also shift % of our discussion here.

 

[Dynamic]

Balbes, what is your time zone?

 

[Obormot]

Welcome back, Balbes.

I think we planned to have most of the discussion at CFC, but it proved very hard not to use an online chat when all the team members speak the same language and are located in a more or less the same timezone. Maybe now we can actually start using the forums more. I will post the chat logs in our thread at CFR, you could try reading them.