SGOTM 10 - tao

[tao]

Well spotted on the Rubber by New Lopaca 2! I hadn't noticed it but will be able to hit the city next turn (probably). I have not had any Infantry coming down from the northern part of the continent, so hopefully this is their only source.
...

I have already switch Copan to a courthouse, it will be quite productive once it has that.

...

And of course we have now built the Pentagon

If we know they don't have infantry, we probably don't even need tanks to finish them. Cav armies and artillery should be enough. We "only" need flight, mass production, and amphibious war (for the 1-tile-island). Then we can stop research and use the cash to rush units.

And with the new luxuries wltkd will increase production even more.

4-cav-armies should easily kill rifles.

 

[Furiey]

1250 AD(Turn 0): MM making sure that units aren’t built without Barracks and Arty where there are no Barracks. Juggle a few tiles to avoid overruns and speed builds elsewhere, making more use of Engineer specialists without losing commerce or science. Trade RP to Sumeria for WM, 63gpt & 42 gold. We’re making +33gpt.

IBT: A Barbarian Cav comes from the fog and captures the exposed Workers by Beachhead; Cavs attack our Elite Infantry by Lupaca 2; Barbarians land a Rifle and Settler by Beachhead; most of the SOD goes towards Gloucester; London: Army>Infantry; Cori: Infantry>Barracks (I missed 1); Vilcas: Infantry>Cavalry;

1255 AD(Turn 1): Start railing to Gloucester and edge of our territory; recapture the Workers killing the Cav that captured them; kill 5 of the SOD (which leaves 3 Longbows, 2 MI, 1 Pike, 1 Spear to attack Gloucester) and a lone Pike that was threatening where the Arty ended up no more troops left to kill more; make Army with Clinton but can only put 2 Cavs in this turn. Kill Rifle guarding Settler with new Army capturing Workers; land Settler, Infantry; kill a few Barbarian Galleons but no enslavements; more MM; build railroads on home continent; move troops closer to Lupaca 2; rush Barracks in Gloucester.

IBT: SOD runs away; lose 2 Elite MoWs to 5 Barbarian Pirate ships; Elite Infantry by Lupaca 2 is redlined by a Guerrilla and a Vet Cav takes our Cav to 3/5; Byzantines and Netherlands sign a MPP; Macchu Pichu: Factory>Infantry; Hastings: Factory>Infantry; Oxford: Infantry>Cavalry; Leeds: MoW>MoW; Gloucester: Barracks>Temple;

1260 AD (Turn 2): Bombard Lupaca 2; Cav Army kill 2/4 Rifle; 4/4 Cav kills 2/3 Rifle; 5/5 Cav dies on 1/3 Rifle; which 4/4 Cav kills; Army finishes off a 1/4 Cav and we raze the city; railroad on Barb continent; move Settler to replace Lopaca 2; found Manchester; move Settler to found city near Olmec 2; rail, MM etc.

IBT: SOD now approaches Beachhead; Barbarians land a Cavalry by Beachhead; Barbarian Guerrillas pass the site of Lupaca 2; Barbarians bombard Beachhead; Cuzco: Cavalry>Infantry; London: Infantry>Infantry; we complete the Pentagon in York>Infantry; Canterbury: Infantry>Cavalry; Huamanga: MoW>MoW; Exeter: Worker>Settler

1265 AD (Turn 3): found Bristol, Carlisle and Leicester reinforcing our territory and a route to the chokepoint; bombard then kill all but 1 of the SOD threatening Beachhead (9 units killed); kill 4 Barbarian Frigates enslaving 2 for 1 lost MoW; start moving Army from home continent; more railroading etc;

IBT: The next SOD moves in to Beachhead; Cori: Barracks>Cavalry; Norwich: Barracks>Cavalry.

1270 AD (Turn 4): sink a Barbarian Privateer and Frigate; kill all but 1 of the SOD and all the Guerrillas around the chokepoint; our Barbarian continent cities are now connected by a railroad; stop for the night

Next day: sell Theo RP for 41gpt, 34 gold + WM; sell Sumeria Industrialisation for 111gpt + 27 gold

IBT: Barbarians kill our Elite Infantry in Bristol, new SOD moves in on Beachhead; London,York: Infantry>Infantry; Palenque: Barracks>Cavalry; Ollyantambo:Arty>Arty; Utrecht>Cavalry; Warwick:Factory>Infantry; Newcastle:Infantry>Infantry

1275 AD (Turn 5): Kill 2 Barbarian Pirate Ships enslaving 1; bombard New Lupaca 2 (only 2 Infantry there); capture it with the newly transported over Cav Army; capture Olmec 2 with another Cav Army after bombarding (3 Rifles); lose an Elite Infantry to a 3/3 Pike in the SOD and a Vet Guerilla to a 2/3 Pike; I can’t wipe out the SOD but I have reduced it to redlined units, some Cav Armies will be healed next turn; drop science to 80% (can’t get Combustion any quicker) making 139gpt.

IBT: Barbarians kill another Infantry in Bristol; most of the SOD moves away; we lose a MoW to a Pirate ship; Cuzco: Infantry>Infantry; Rotterdam: Court>Cav; Macchu Pichu: Infantry>Cavalry; Hastings: Infantry>Infantry; Coventry: Factory>Cavalry; Leeds: MoW>Barracks; Sumerians start Universal Suffrage.

1280 AD (Turn 6): kill off many of the Guerrillas by Bristol; capture New Zapotec with Cav Army after bombarding (2 Rifles); Gems are now connected; MM for WLTKD in a couple of places; ferry across some more troops.

IBT: SOD move away from New Liapc 2 towards an undefended city (good); we lose a MoW to a Barbarian Pirate ship which the Byzantines then sink for us; Chichen Itza: Temple>Cavalry; London: Infnatry>Infantry; Copan: Courthouse>Cavalry; York: Infantry>Infantry; Canterbury: Cavalry>Cavalry; Vilcas: Cavalry>Cavalry; Dover: Uni>Arty;

1285 AD (Turn 7): Capture Zapotec2 (and Furs); pick off Guerrillas and a Settler by Bristol; ferry more troops across, railroad etc.

IBT: SOD heads towards some exposed Workers; we complete Combustion and start Flight due in 8 at 100%; The Hague: Harbour>Cruiser; Tikal: Temple>Destroyer; Huamanga: MoW>Destroyer; Warwick: Infantry>Infantry; Oxford: Cavalry>Cavalry; Gloucester: Temple>Harbour; Leicester: Temple>Market; our Military Plans are stolen

1290 AD (Turn 8): Bombard and capture with a Cav Army New Chanca 2 (2 Rifles defended); capture Apache 2 (2 Rifles defended); kill most of the SOD (only around 6 units remain); kill more Guerrillas by Bristol; upgrade a Galleon to Transport; railroading and connecting in new cities.

IBT: Guerrillas kill another Infantry at Bristol; we lose a MoW in our ferry stack to a Barbarian Pirate; Byzantines want a MPP, I decline; Cuzco: Infantry>Infantry; Amsterdam: Courthouse>Destroyer; London,York: Infantry>Infantry; Macchu Pichu, Hastings, Cori, Coventry: Cavalry>Cavalry; Liverpool: Factory>Cavalry; Leeds: Barracks>Cavalry;

1295 AD (Turn 9): no towns captured this turn but pick off a large stack of Guerrillas by Bristol and more of the remains of the SOD; readjust the ferry transfer point for Transports.

IBT: Another stack of Guerrillas moves next to Bristol; Brighton: Arty>Arty; I’m sure there were some more builds but I can’t remember them.

1300 AD (Turn 10): Capture New Cherokee 2 (2 Rifles defend) witch will give Silks once connected; ferry some more troops across from Leeds to Beachhead – it’s nice to be able to do it in 1 turn and use them the same turn now we have transports; nearly attack a Byzantine Rifle by mistake; railroading; leave some troops unmoved for the next player.

Treasury: 258gold + 70gpt, Flight due in 6 (90%)


Post-turn: Just 1 city is left to be captured in the south, but that is still size 1 so we either wait or will need a Settler to replace it. There are gaps that could be filled with Settlers in the south, but really the battle for the south is over with just that city and a few stray troops remaining and we need to turn our attention to the north. The next city in the north Cherokee 2 has Rifles defending. The stack of ships in the middle East of Bristol is the transfer point for the Transports to allow units to be ferried across in 1 turn. There are still Barbarian ships about but not so many now. Beachhead is on Infantry as a placeholder for an Airport, but you’ll probably switch a few things then. Our Alliance with the Byzantines for Dye could be renegotiated now. You may want to use the troops this turn to quell some resistance then move against Cherokee 2 next turn when Clinton’s Army and London’s Last Army will be healed (use Beachhead and Gloucester to heal in 1 turn). We’re nearly there, although the North may be slower going than the South, particularly when we meet the Barbarian Guard units.

Htadus (up next)
Tone
tao
DBear
Furiey (just played)

The Save

 

[tao]

Good progress indeed. I say let us now go north and leave it to the AIs to mop up remaining southern/island cities. And once New Cherokee 2 is connected, we will have global happiness.

I would also start adding native workers to our western coastal cities with pop <12.

I would renew the alliances, but not throw in e.g. dyes. Better to donate luxuries to the AIs, it makes them gracious.

IMHO we neither need the market in Leicester nor the harbor in Glocester. I suggest to build (hurry when needed) settlers instead.

 

[Furiey]

The Market in Leicester and the Harbour in Gloucester were placeholders, I thought I'd mentioned them but re-reading my comments obviously not. We only need 1 Airport on thay continent (for now at least) but it may be worth having a back-up just in case to first flips (the Gloucester Harbour has Engineers shields added to it so would be best to keep of the 2, it was timed to not finish before we complete flight. More Settlers would be useful.

The Byzantines have been active in the islands SE of the screenie, the Sumerians have a city there as well. I have seen both Sumerian and Byzantine forces around the cities we have taken - watch out the Rifle 2NE of Apache 2 is Byzantine not Barbarian!

 

[DBear]

Great job, Furiey. Way to get us that oil and clear out the land for our settlers.

 

[Htadus]

Great progress. I am at work now and will down load and play tonight.

Tao, Do I understand correct that we should not worry about finishing off the remaining barb cities in the south?

I will focus on the cities to the north. I will raze all, including wonders cities.

 

[tao]

Tao, Do I understand correct that we should not worry about finishing off the remaining barb cities in the south?

I will focus on the cities to the north. I will raze all, including wonders cities.

Yes, I think we can for now leave the remote cities to the AIs. if necessary, railroads will move us fast south again.

I would NOT raze all the cities. If you raze e.g. Cherokee2, we will not be able to attack New Chinook the same turn. Once we have connected the silks, we don't need military police any more I suppose and can bring our outdated units to quell resistance.

 

[Furiey]

There's only 1 city left in the S of the continent and that's size 1 so I'd leave that and focus on the N. You may feel it worth going back to it when it grows to size 2 if you have spare troops you can't use in the N but I wouldn't give it priority. If you have unused workers you may want to rail closer to the city so we can get there quickly when we want to. Hopefully Byzantines and Sumerians will clear up the islands for us so we don't have to divert from the N. If there are any minor cities left once we have taken the Barbarian core we can mop them up easily later.

I would not raze all the northern cities but keep those that are useful - either have useful wonders or aid in movement in the war. You may want some combat Settlers, and if the flip risk is too great to keep a city you can always abandon and replace it later.

edit: At the moment we can still use the MP on our home continent, I have been using some to get WLTKD to lower corruption, but I think there are more opportunities for MP shuffling particulalry now that we have instant railroad movement. The silks will be connected in 2 turns and a redeployment will certainly be needed then. We'll just need to keep a small force back home in case of invasion.

 

[tao]

I will leave this afternoon for a short weekend trip to France. Will be back on Sunday. Good luck till then.

 

[Htadus]

I played 5 turns last night (bloody 3.5 hrs) and took 3 cities in the north and replace each with rushed settlers. Lost a former Barb city via flip and recaptured it. All Armies are recovering. I am considering building another Army in London. I will play tonight and post. By the way I have not been able to post an image yet. Any advise as to how to do it?

Oh I did see a Barb Guard. Had 8 bars and fortified on a mountain fortress. It has a mean shot, redlined a MoW in one attack. Going to be interesting.

 

[Furiey]

The easiest was is to attach an image to your post: Go Advanced to do your post then there's a manage attachment button below where you type. This brings up a pop-up window to allow you to choose your file. There's a forum announcement by Thunderfall on how to attach files, you may still find it at the top of the SGOTM forum.

I'm not surprised 5 turns took 3.5 hrs - they're not exactly quick are they. For healing the armies quickest, leave them unmoved in a town with Barrack for 1 turn, I alternated, using half while one turn and the other half the next.

I may not get to see a Barb guard as I'm off on Monday for a fortnight, so if you can get a screenie of one that would be interesting.

 

[Tone]

I played 5 turns last night (bloody 3.5 hrs)

It's a good job that I'm on holiday now!

By the way I have not been able to post an image yet. Any advise as to how to do it?

As Furiey says, the easiest way is to do it via an attachement but this link might be useful if you want multiple images in the middle of the text.

Oh I did see a Barb Guard. Had 8 bars and fortified on a mountain fortress. It has a mean shot, redlined a MoW in one attack. Going to be interesting.

Sounds like the ideal candiadate to feel the full force of a bomber fleet. @Furiey, we should make sure that we have a save to give you so that you can see one for yourself.

 

[Furiey]

...this link might be useful if you want multiple images in the middle of the text.

Please make sure that you resize them to fit on the page if you do that (which means approx 800x600 if you normally run at 1024x768, although I run at 1280 x 1024 so 1024 x 768 is ok without scrolling for me) as otherwise you have to keep scrolling across the page to read all the text and it gets annoying.

Sounds like the ideal candiadate to feel the full force of a bomber fleet.

Definitley! Lethal bombardment will help there as well!

@Furiey, we should make sure that we have a save to give you so that you can see one for yourself.

Yes please!

 

[Htadus]

We managed to capture 6 Cities and replace 3. Lost and recaptured 2 Cities. Met Barb Defenders. Barbie is sending mainly Guerillas for counter attacks.

1300 AD (Turn 0): Move MoW from Tikal to Barb North for recon. Moved a warrior and a sword (from Liverpool) across to jump point. Moved 4 Inf to the tile Northeast of Bristol.

IBT: 3 Guerillas died attacking the inf stack. 2 redlined, one promoted, one yellow. London, York, Warwick, Newcastle: Inf>Inf, Olla: Arti>Arti, Canterbury, Vilcas: Cav>Cav

1305 AS (Turn 1): Clintons army killed the Guerrilla in the south. Cav from Olemec 3 die to a redlined rifleman. War and sword fortify Olmec 2. Artilaries are moved to tile NE of Bristol w/1 inf and Fortify the 4 that was there from last turn. Load units into transport. Recon MoW sink a pirate and enslave. See a barb defender fortified on a mountain fortress with 8 bars. Change Leichester to Settler.

IBT: Barb Guard has a mean shot; red line the enslaved MoW. Cuzco: Inf>Inf, Machu P., Palenque, Hastings, Coventry, Norwick: Cav>Cav, Many quelling.

1310 AD (Turn 2): Slave MoW attack and enslave another Barb Pirate ship. Artilary units redline 3 rifles and 1 Guerrilla. Rush the settler in New Lupaco and Leicester. Baudices army kills the 3 rifles and a vet cav kill the Guerrilla. Two more Arties yellow a inf and a Guerrilla defending New Chinook. Londons army take out Another Guerrilla and a reg rifle. Two cav units take the city. Moving Inf units to defend exposed cavs.

IBT: London, York: Inf>Inf, Tiwanaku: Factory>Cav, Copan, York: Cav>Cav, New Lupaco, Leicester: Settler>Settler. Appache 2 flip and we loose 1 inf.

1315 AD (Turn 3): Abandond Cherokee2 and established Ipswich at the same spot. Abandoned New Chinook and establish Portsmouth one tile West. Arties redline 8 Guerrillas and yellow 2. Armies and cav units kill all but two yellows. Changed Bristol and Manchester to Rax.

IBT: Many Guerrillas run back. Cori, Liverpool, Leads>Cav>Cav, Warwick: Inf>Cav, Dover: Arti>Arti, Reading: Fact>Cav, Exeter: Settler>Settler, Production sabotage in Huamanga.

1320 AD (Turn 4): Move a stack of Arties, Cav and Inf to a hill 2 tiles east of New Olmec. Cav die attacking a redlined Guerrilla. Use army to kill the two. Changed the inf build in Beachhead to settler and harbor in Gloucester to settler. Rush both.

IBT: Cuzco, 13 Guerrillas block the path to New Olemec. London, York: Inf>Inf, Chichen I., Machu P., Hastings, Canterbury, Coventry, Vilcas: Cav>Cav, Beachhead, Gloucester: settler>Settler

1325 AD (Turn 5): Arti stack redline 5 units in New Olmec and 2 Guerrillas blocking the path. Two cavs kill the 2 blockers and each army take out a unit. VCav kill the last defender and get promoted. Last turn of each army was used to kill another Guerrilla. Abandon Zapotec 2 and replace with Berwick. Abandoned New Olemac and established Bath tile North. Flight next turn; reduced science to 70%. Re captured Appachie 2.

IBT: Many Guerrilla units are moving south. Maya does not want to renew aliance paying 7 gpt to us. But accepted aliance w/o pyments. Learn Flight>Mass production in 6 at 100%. Tiwa.:Cav>Cav, Oli, Richmond: Arti>Arti,

1330 AD (Turn 6): Using Arties, cavs and Cav Armies to kill many Guerrillas. Two promotions. Done for the night.
Day Two: Just noticed Summaria took the last Barb City in the south. Changed Inf in London to Army. Ferried a transport load of Cavs to the new world. I just made the connection. Changed Leicester to an Airport. Changed Chichen cav to Bomber. It has no rax.

IBT: Look like Sumeria is going after one of the Barb island cities. Finally a barb cav showed up and got redlined by a fortified Inf. Warwick: Cav>Bomber, Manchester: Rax>Airport.

1335 AD (Turn 7): Armies are still recovering. Used Arties and newly arrived Cavs to kill off about 12 Guerrillas and one redlined cav. Two promotions.

IBT: More Guerrillas move south. Cuzco: Inf>Bomber, Copan, Machu P., Cori, Oxford: Cav>Cav, Hastings, Coventry, Reading: Cav>Bomber, Olmac 2: Temple>Rax

1340 AD (Turn 8): Arti redline 2 rifles and 2 Guerrillas. Williams Army Kill two rifles and a Guerrilla. Ecav killed the last unit and capture Zapotec. Abandon Zapotec and replace with The Mumbles on tile SW. Remaining Arti redline 3 rifles in New chance. Redcoat Army and 3 cavs took the City. Lost two Cavs and promoted one. Converted irrigation to mines and chopped to set up Hastings and Coventry to build bombers every 3 turns (34spt).

IBT: Tiwa, Palenque, Canterbury, Vilcas, Liverpool: Cav>Cav. Crap...New Zapotec Flip.

1345 AD (Turn 9): 3 Cavs and an Army take Olmec. Move Arties to hit Chinook next. other Arties redline 2 Guerrillas. 2 ECavs kill the two and we get a GL. Made an army. Took back New Zapotec. Traded Incense, Spices and Furs to Theo for WM, 18gpt and 226g. Trade Incense to Maya for 1gpt+37g. Rushed 3 settlers.

IBT: More Guerrilla movements. Humanga: Destroyer>Destroyer, Warwick: Bomber>Bomber, Norwick: Cav>Cav, Olemec, Beachhead, Glauceter: Settler>Settler, Propaganda upset New Chance.

1350 AD (Turn 10): As planned, used Arties to redline the 3 rifles defending Chinook. SirDanceAlots Army and a Ecav took the city. I tested the Barb defender against a VCav. Cav hit once and got redlined, retreated. 3 Arties only hit it twice. I will stop at this point.

There are 3 settlers available. Many Cavs and several armies are available too. I wanted to use an Army to test the Barb Defender but refrained from it. We should bring some workers from mainland to irrigate tiles in the new world. Mass production will be done in 2 turns. We did not have to renew the alliance with Theo and she has been gracious to us the whole time. We should be adding workers to cities, specially the two Cities building Airports in the new world. This will allow us to have more engineers.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133271&stc=1&d=1153563731

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm10/tao_SG010_AD1350_01.SAV

Tone (up next)
tao
DBear
Furiey
Htadus (just played)

 

[DBear]

Why are you holding on to those big barbarian cities? I check CivAssistII and they have ridiculous chances of flipping, there's no way we can hold them.

 

[Htadus]

Why are you holding on to those big barbarian cities? I check CivAssistII and they have ridiculous chances of flipping, there's no way we can hold them.

We will not hold it for too long. I did not complete the moves for the turn 10. There are 3 settlers waiting to establish cities. I am giving Tone the option to set up for the next assult. I usually move to one of the 8 tiles and establish my new city; get closer to an AI city. Tone may or may not do the same but I am sure he will get rid of the city soon.

 

[Tone]

Ooops. Sorry, I forgot about this. I'll download it later today.

 

[Tone]

Chinook is safe at the end of this turn (assuming normal rules apply) as we've only just taken it. The other two I intend to abandon once war settlers have built new towns one tile north for New Chanca and one NE for Olmec. Thanks for setting me up!

I think Chinook will get bombarded this turn so I'd like to take the army out of there and let the infantry take the brunt.

We need some more settlers so I'll be rushing them in Leicester (we only need one airport, right?*) and The Hague. Those settlers from barb towns will flip more easily.

Do we need a rax in Bristol and a temple in Carlisle or can I use those for settlers as well?

*Do we actually need an airport at all? Our transports seem to be doing a fine job. We only have one airport at home anyway

Research Amphibious War next and then Mot Trans?

Plan: Build more bombers and KO the barb nation!

Thoughts?

 

[tao]

Do we need a rax in Bristol and a temple in Carlisle or can I use those for settlers as well?

IMHO we really need only 1 barrack, if we can reach this town via rr in zero time. We only need a temple, if we want to expand city radius to limit AI rr usage. If a settler blocks The Barbarians just as well, it is both faster and cheaper than a temple.

Do we actually need an airport at all? Our transports seem to be doing a fine job. We only have one airport at home anyway.

With the speed of our progress, we might not need them. However IIRC ironclads will be hit by a defensive m-o-w shot and then attack the transport, not the m-o-w. Thus we need them, once we meet ironclads. Or do we already have destroyers to guard our transports?

Research Amphibious War next and then Mot Trans?

Yes. And maybe we can even stop after amphibious and use the money saved to rush units (cavs) on the AI continent. If we don't meet infantry, 3-move cavs are at least as good as 2-move tanks, especially if we have lots of them.

PS: I can't look at the save; thus my answers are based on guesswork and reasoning.

 

[Tone]

IMHO we really need only 1 barrack, if we can reach this town via rr in zero time. We only need a temple, if we want to expand city radius to limit AI rr usage. If a settler blocks The Barbarians just as well, it is both faster and cheaper than a temple.

Good. I'll swap both of these then. Hdatus has done a good job in blocking the barbs and we need settlers more than these builds.

IIRC ironclads will be hit by a defensive m-o-w shot and then attack the transport, not the m-o-w. Thus we need them, once we meet ironclads. Or do we already have destroyers to guard our transports?

I really don't think that we'll see ironclads as I've rarely seen the AI research this tech. However I can switch an arty build to a destroyer and get one in 4 more turns. The cost involved in building a number of airports is not worth it. A couple of transports plus ship hopping is far more powerful as you can use those units the same turn as they are built. I'll keep one airport build going though just in case.

And maybe we can even stop after amphibious and use the money saved to rush units (cavs) on the AI continent. If we don't meet infantry, 3-move cavs are at least as good as 2-move tanks, especially if we have lots of them.

I wasn't feeling so bold as to state this but this was behind the reasoning for researching amphi first! We have yet to face those barb guards but arty and bombers should do the trick.

PS: I can't look at the save; thus my answers are based on guesswork and reasoning.