SGOTM 10 - Xteam

[leif erikson]

I can't see.

Sounds like what we should do. I like the idea of using this as a second GP farm better than the single tile island.

Once we have Communism and State Property, it essentially eliminates the need for Courthouses, so I think building any would be a waste of hammers. I used to build them all the time, now I seldom do...
Bad influence, there guys.

EDIT - btw, I PM'ed SCT about a week ago and haven't heard anything?

 

[Frederiksberg]

Just raising a topic because I don't remember any discussion on it. (Maybe I've forgotten). Courthouses. In some cities, the 162 hammers would pay back the gold (assuming the city would build wealth otherwise) in about 40 turns. Is it better after fission? Not at all?

Have to also consider the value of what you might build with those 162 hammers instead. Also, isn't this a mute question if we decide to research communism?

Measuring against building wealth is not bad because we are going to be building wealth quite frequently if not all the time at least in some of our cities.

The Courthouse reduces the total maintenance cost by 50% while State Property eliminates distance maintenance so a Courthouse continues to have some, but reduced, effect due to the number of cities maintenance. We can make more accurate calculations when we have settled our outlying cities.

 

[Mad Professor]

I can't see.

Sounds like what we should do. I like the idea of using this as a second GP farm better than the single tile island.

I think this is the route Fred is talking about:

 

[Frederiksberg]

I can't see.

Here you go leif

 

[Frederiksberg]

I think this is the route Fred is talking about:

Exactly!

 

[leif erikson]

Concur, they both look like good sites. Where do you plan on settling on the Sugar/Copper island, 1 SE of the western Sugar or to collect the Fish?

Not to start anything, but from what I can see of the Sheep and Horse island south of the Sugar, it looks interesting...

 

[Frederiksberg]

Concur, they both look like good sites. Where do you plan on settling on the Sugar/Copper island, 1 SE of the western Sugar or to collect the Fish?

Not to start anything, but from what I can see of the Sheep and Horse island south of the Sugar, it looks interesting...

I don't think settling the Sugar City will be inside my turn set. There is actually room for two cities on Sugar Island if we settle on the plains hill at the SE tip of the island and NE of the copper. But we should only settle one of these spots for now, I think.

The horse/sheep/clam is quite nice also, but it's further away and it doesn't give us the sugar resource.

 

[Cactus Pete]

If we gain access to marble, that will allow us to turn hammers into gold at a favorable rate by partially building the same 'marble' wonder, such as HE, in multiple cities. Those 162 hammers for a courthouse might be better utilized this way, for example.

 

[Mad Professor]

If we gain access to marble, that will allow us to turn hammers into gold at a favorable rate by partially building the same 'marble' wonder, such as HE, in multiple cities. Those 162 hammers for a courthouse might be better utilized this way, for example.

Sounds like a good idea. Anything we can do to lever the tech rate to Fission/Rocketry is good. We need a window as big as possible where we are the only nuclear power. If you guys have never played a modern or future start (with say space turned off) then it's very educational. Nukes can rip you apart. You rip the other guy apart too and you can still beat him, but then to beat the next guy you need to build up again. That means lots more hammers, turns, and generally a much slower conquest. To do it fast we need to do it as the only nuclear power.

 

[Cactus Pete]

If you guys have never played a modern or future start (with say space turned off) then it's very educational. Confessing ignorance. Nukes can rip you apart. You rip the other guy apart too and you can still beat him, but then to beat the next guy you need to build up again. That means lots more hammers, turns, and generally a much slower conquest. To do it fast we need to do it as the only nuclear power.

Then presumably we have to become a nuclear power quickly and with plenty of fissionable material available as well as delivery vehicles. Does anything upgrade to nuclear weapons?

 

[Frederiksberg]

If all agree to send the settlers towards marble and sugar islands I will do my remaining turns until we have the next GP out of St. Pete this evening. Plan is to whip settler next turn in Fish City and then adopt caste. Perhaps whip 1-2 workers also. Then immediately adopt Caste.

 

[leif erikson]

I'm with you. Please play on.

 

[Mad Professor]

If all agree to send the settlers towards marble and sugar islands I will do my remaining turns until we have the next GP out of St. Pete this evening. Plan is to whip settler next turn in Fish City and then adopt caste. Perhaps whip 1-2 workers also. Then immediately adopt Caste.

OK with me.

Does anything upgrade to nuclear weapons?

No. Gotta build them after getting fission and rocketry and building the Manhattan project. No short cuts.

 

[leif erikson]

ICBM's require 500 hammers.
Tactical Nukes require 250 hammers.

iirc, ICBM has unlimited range while Tactical Nukes have to be transported. Not sure of Tac Nuke range?

 

[Mad Professor]

ICBM's require 500 hammers.
Tactical Nukes require 250 hammers.

iirc, ICBM has unlimited range while Tactical Nukes have to be transported. Not sure of Tac Nuke range?

Tactical nuke range is four tiles. They can be housed in cities, forts, on subs (NOT attack subs) and missile cruisers. Subs and missile cruisers require techs beyond what we've talked about. This makes forts useful...


Edit: At epic speed, ICBM's require 675 hammers and Tactical nukes 337!! Tactical nukes have the advantage of having an extra chance of evading the SDI if built.

 

[leif erikson]

Tactical nuke range is four tiles. They can be housed in cities, forts, on subs (NOT attack subs) and missile cruisers. Subs and missile cruisers require techs beyond what we've talked about. This makes forts useful...

Are you saying that they can launch to a target four tiles away but must be launched from a City, Fort... etc? Or can they be moved with units and fired from any tile?

Edit: At epic speed, ICBM's require 675 hammers and Tactical nukes 337!! Tactical nukes have the advantage of having an extra chance of evading the SDI if built.

I used the CivFanatics Info Center, since I'm up a creek atm.

 

[Mad Professor]

Are you saying that they can launch to a target four tiles away but must be launched from a City, Fort... etc? Or can they be moved with units and fired from any tile?

A tactical nuke can be fired from whatever can house them - a city, fort, missile cruiser or sub, wherever they might be. It makes subs quite useful (they can carry three) and missile cruisers also which are battleships that can carry four nukes. A good way to use them if you have nukes and cruisers is to sail up to an enemy coast and go berserk with the red button. However if you don't have these mobile nuke holders, you are restricted to forts and cities for housing and firing tactical nukes. That will be our case I think. That means tactical nukes will have limited use to us because if we don't have subs or missile cruisers, we can only use tactical nukes from cities or forts within four tiles of the target which won't be too many...

ICBM's cannot be moved, always remaining where they were built, but they can reach any point on the map from any other point.

 

[leif erikson]

Sounds like Tactical Nukes are of limited utility. A city would have to be within four tiles of a coast for Subs or Missile Cruisers. The big advantage of Tac Nukes is the evasion capability against SDI. It is going to be interesting...

 

[Mad Professor]

Sounds like Tactical Nukes are of limited utility. A city would have to be within four tiles of a coast for Subs or Missile Cruisers. The big advantage of Tac Nukes is the evasion capability against SDI. It is going to be interesting...

Well being within four tiles of the coast is no problem. Note that EVERY SINGLE CITY in the map we see so far in the game is within four tiles of some coast somewhere. Hmmm? There's not much out of range of a tac nuke on a sub...

The catch is subs require radio and missile cruisers require robotics... Unless we're going to study these we're better off building ICBM's except maybe for India's cities where we might be able to build forts within four tiles of our targets. Tac nukes will be useless for attacking other civs unless we've got subs or cruisers to transport them in. We better have some enourmous production city that can pump out ICBM's fast.

 

[Mad Professor]

Another comment about Nuke range. All nukes, both tactical and ICBM have a nine tile area of effect - the strike tile, and the eight surrounding it. If you have two targets two tiles apart (say a couple of big stacks of units) you can hit both with the one nuke.

However I seem to remember in the rules discussion there was something about the "nuking a city" meant "direct hit". That is, the nuke lands right on the city...?

Edit: A concrete example of how we might use tactical nukes only to do the necessary on current Indian cities: We could build a fort in the forest SW of St.P from which we could launch a tac nuke to hit Bombay. Once we took Bombay we could transfer a tac Nuke there (you can move tac nukes from city to city) and from there we could hit Delhi. Vijayanagara could be hit by a tac nuke launched from Orange City. That would be about the end of our ability to use tac nukes unless we studied to radio, or until we used an ICBM on one city somewhere else, captured it, then fired tac nukes out of there on other cities owned by the same civ nearby