SGOTM 11 - Final Spoiler Thread

Not completely related to the working of the Plastic Ducks' economy, but not completely unrelated either :

#5 A very accurate testgame. Thanks a lot for your hard work, Kossin.

#6 All team members but BornInCantaloup were micromanagement beasts.

Notice how #5 + #6 combined help compare the different suggestions that were made in our thread. Very few suggestions weren't debated but rather called an immediate consensus. They were the likes of : researching Bronze working first, building the Great Lighthouse and getting Oxford University as soon as possible.

With the GLH, Currency made sense, so the Theology path wasn't considered to reach Civil Service, but I agree with Sun Tzu Wu that a SG (OTM or not) is a good opportunity to think about/try unorthodox hmmm... shenanigans.
 
First off, it's a shame that i, who asked for this thread (BTW, thanks Alan... BTW 2 it seems to have a decent participation) am posting only now. Some busy days here.

For now i can provide a link to our turnsets reports post HERE i'll try to post a short report of our milestones.

Congrats on the Gold and Silver teams. I wasn't expecting a Diplo before 1000 AD from anyone, mainly in absence of MW.

And congrats to anyone who won the game.

As usual, thanks to the game designers (even to DS, thinking he was a good person before start designing games) and to Alan.

Now, next one?
 
Whosit here, writing in for Team Maple Sporks! We are one of two teams to go for the Cultural win, but didn't quite earn the Wooden Spoons.

The Maple Sporks began our epic quest by ascending the nearby plains hill to settle our capital, and, judging by the score spread, things just went down hill from there. :lol:

We made a point to explore our starting continent quickly, and ran into the Ethiopians. We boxed them in, which led to them becoming rather irrelevant down the road. We quickly placed troops in strategic locations to prevent barbarians from spawning, since we were building mainly warriors and Settlers, which tend to do poorly against well-equipped barbarians, or strong gusts of wind.

We did build Stonehenge to avoid spending hammers on monuments later, and then build the Pyramids to take advantage of Representation. The Oracle was soon completed in order to research Code of Laws and thus found Confucianism, and the Maple Sporks believed that they were well on their way to fulfilling the Goddess's directive. Little did they know that they were correct.

At this point, the Maple Sporks were still uncertain whether to try and pursue a world united through diplomacy or sheer cultural grandeur, so they attempted to run a middle course that would allow them to choose either when the picture became clearer. A Great Prophet (St. Peter, as it happens) was used to bulb Theology and found (Christianity), and the Apostolic Palace was built in Christianity as denial. Christianity was mainly a domestic religion, so the AP was removed as a global factor.

As it so happens, the Ethiopians built the Great Lighthouse. Based on my reading of other summaries, our failure to build or capture this wonder may have been an oversight.

The Maple Sporks' path towards culture became more clear as time went on. Philosophy was discovered by a Great Scientist (Taoism), and Music was researched and a Great Artist was secured. The choice was cinched when the Sistine Chapel was built.

Exploration of the sea became important. Ivory, Dye, and Silks had been located in the hands of the various other civilizations, but the Furs eluded the Team. Eventually, they were located on a remote island, in the grasp of heathen Barbarians. A military force was dispatched and quickly secured control of the holy land. From that point onward, the Maple Sporks made a great push to achieving cultural victory as quickly as possible, spreading our religions in order to unlock the cathedrals for our cultural cities.

As the victory date inched closer, the decision was made to secure our other necessary resources more definitely. Some we could receive in trade, but the AI who controlled the Silk, Dye, and Ivory did not like us very much. Spain and the Ottomans made unreliable trade partners, and it would not do to have them cancel deals right before our victory date. Therefore, a cunning plan was devised. A great amphibious force was created, and waited near the coasts of key AI cities.

Using our two war declarations, we attacked Spain and the Ottomans at once. We razed the cities that controlled the three resources, and used our own settles to settle on top of each resource, thereby giving us absolute control of these critical items to clothe the Goddess when she appeared. After that, it was simply a matter of waiting.

Due to the excellent micromanagement of the team, all three of our cities became Legendary on the same turn, and we secured victory! Hurray! :king:
 
Cultural Victory versus Diplomatic Victory:

Congratulations, Maple Sporks, on taking the Cultural path to Victory. If you had committed to a Cultural Victory on turn 0, your Win Date may have been much better. Chokomisfits also did not commit completely to a Diplomatic Victory and we probably built too many Great Wonders as a back up Cultural Victory plan, assuming Diplomacy failed to provide the 60% of Votes needed for the Diplomatic Victory resolution (excluding our TUN Opponent, Justinian I, one of our good friends). It did fail (Mehmed II never caught up to Justinian I in Population), but too late to fall back on a neglected Cultural Strategy. We relied on Cuirassiers to capture the needed Population from Mehmed II, which cost us at least 20 turns.

Securing the Critical Resources:

Using our two war declarations, we attacked Spain and the Ottomans at once. We razed the cities that controlled the three resources, and used our own settles to settle on top of each resource, thereby giving us absolute control of these critical items to clothe the Goddess when she appeared. After that, it was simply a matter of waiting.

I agree 100% that settling on the critical Resources was the only way to ensure access to them. Even domestically controlled Resources that do not have one's City on them are subject to sabotage via Spies (perhaps unexpected from an AI) or more likely a City revolt (quite likely in a newly Captured City when the dominate National Culture is still overwhelming strong) that would deny the needed Cultural control of the Resource.

The only secure trade comes via a secured Vassal (not close to the conditions that revoke its Vassal state) that has multiple unused instances of each critical Resource.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Thank you for a well designed yet challenging games DS.

Congrats to all the teams played the game and finish the game. Sorry to see one team could not finish but they had a good reason. Perhaps each team must have a minimum number of players to avoid the same thing happening. But that is for another thread.

BTW DS, the only disappointment was the barb factor. I read way too much into it. :) I was expecting some major challenge. Anyways excellent job SGOTM staff. Thank you.
 
BTW DS, the only disappointment was the barb factor. I read way too much into it. :) I was expecting some major challenge. Anyways excellent job SGOTM staff. Thank you.

I was expecting those barbarians to more difficult too, but I rationalised it by thinking that those barbarians would have indeed been a serious handful in 4000BC when they were put there :D I had interpreted the comment about terrible barbs as as least a couple of rifles.

I also I agree with the you Htadus that it was an excellent adn very well conceived game.

In hindsight, if I may second guess the game designer (and maybe he can confirm or deny this suggestion...?) is that since Diplo is normally much, much faster than cultural victory, he put in cultural as an option in case some circumstances made diplo very unlikely for a team, it still allows a win of some sort fulfilling all requirements of the game. There was another SGOTM like a this a while back - we played Russia and had the option of diplo or space. Ummmm. I wonder which is faster? Ha! The space option though was clearly a way we could win the game if we failed miserably at diplo, therefore winning, fulfilling requirements of the game but in no way putting ourselves in line for a laurel.

In this game, the culture option looked a bit the same to me. I had in mind at the beginning that a 1250 diplo would be a good game, especially with the extra conditions of surplus great people possibly slowing things up. As a result I was pleased with our 1100-odd result and very, very impressed with the gold and silver winners dates. I've never thought getting culture that early was ever a possibility at emperor, especially when getting fast culture victory, you focus on getting as many great artists as possible to boost culture - but four extra ones? When each one by the end of the game is worth many, many GP points? Wow. That makes it tough to get a decent date and I think those teams that did 1600-odd culture victory dates did extremely well at that victory type!
 
At this point, the Maple Sporks were still uncertain whether to try and pursue a world united through diplomacy or sheer cultural grandeur, so they attempted to run a middle course that would allow them to choose either when the picture became clearer. A Great Prophet (St. Peter, as it happens) was used to bulb Theology and found (Christianity), and the Apostolic Palace was built in Christianity as denial. Christianity was mainly a domestic religion, so the AP was removed as a global factor.

Once you view of your land did you not use a test save and see what date you could acheive culture by?

I suspect you could of quite easily mapped out the land around 3000bc and tested what date a culture win could of been achieved by.

I tried a test game for phoenix Rising and I was getting early 1700s for culture. On this basis I squashed the idea as we could of teched to mass media much earlier.

Ironically Zara also built GLH on our save too. Our early city choices were pretty poor. We should of grabbed the 3-4 key specialist cities and burned through to edu much earlier. AS PD have stated you didn't need to block Zara.

Oh well wait for the next game. :)
 
Who Dat brief summary.

We decided very quickly to go for diplo and zoomed up to Mass Media by bulbing up the physics/electricity path and using Liberalism to get Radio. We generally avoided war as we weren't sure whether we'd need our DOWs to capture resources. The diplo situation was very straightforward as all our friends were Hindu and I think we did a good job of aligning the Hindus against our enemies (Isabella and Mehmed). In the end, we used one DOW to attack Mehmed very late in the game to seize a foothold on his continent and secure Dyes / Silk.

Some summaries in the first page of our thread, and here are some key dates:
2175BC, Oracle for Code of Laws (but we soon abandon Confu to join our Hindu friends)
1225BC, Pyramids
425BC, bulb Philo
220AD, Education
415AD, Oxford in Delhi
1120AD, Liberalism for Radio
1240AD, teched Mass Media
1290AD, captured Edirne deep in Ottoman territory for UN
1435AD, completed UN at last in Edirne
1485AD, diplo victory​

I think one problem is that we all assumed we'd need to gift away UN to create a weak rival for the vote, rather than face Toku or Justinian (our friends, but with high population). So we planned to conquer some extra Ottoman territory, build the UN, and then gift it away. This was a really slow process with a city in revolt and only one GE and not a lot of forests to chop or population to slave.

In the end, we realized we could win a diplo victory vote even if Toku was our rival, so we didn't gift away the UN and won anyway. Could have built UN in our home territory instead - or better yet, rush-bought it using Universal Sufferage.

Maybe we didn't need to war against Mehmed and could have just bribed him and Isabella to being happy enough to trade their resources - I'm not sure about this one.
 
I think one problem is that we all assumed we'd need to gift away UN to create a weak rival for the vote, rather than face Toku or Justinian (our friends, but with high population). So we planned to conquer some extra Ottoman territory, build the UN, and then gift it away. This was a really slow process with a city in revolt and only one GE and not a lot of forests to chop or population to slave.

In the end, we realized we could win a diplo victory vote even if Toku was our rival, so we didn't gift away the UN and won anyway. Could have built UN in our home territory instead - or better yet, rush-bought it using Universal Sufferage.

Maybe we didn't need to war against Mehmed and could have just bribed him and Isabella to being happy enough to trade their resources - I'm not sure about this one.

ChokoMisfits had the same plan, but we couldn't get enough Population be #1 in Population Worldwide and also realized that building the UN in a weak low Population City would be a slow process, even with one Great Engineer. Two Great Engineers or One Great Engineers and sufficient pre-Chopped Forests may have made some difference, but we just didn't have enough Population anyway. So, we just built the UN in our Capital and captured enough of Mehmed II's Population to Win the Diplomatic Victory resolution the usual way.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Ironic really. PR we kept gifting back cities Toku captured to Justin using the AP. On reflection Toku becoming a large empire was not a bad thing as we had planned to attack him anyway and we wanted Mehmed to be our rival. We got Mehmed just happy enough so he would trade silk.

I do think adopting conf religion was a mistake as we failed to convert the likes of Toku, mehmed. We will do better this time. The early war with Toku nearly killed our game.
 
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