SGOTM 11 - One Short Straw

[Mutineer]

Currently we are not planing on attacking anyone. WE should prepare to be ready to be able to create army (Build barracks for example), but best way is to win with out any fighting.

 

[shyuhe]

Second galleon will sail with the GA and 3 warriors, not 3 GP's and a warrior. There's a chance that we'll have to use the scientist for a bulb and our spare GP won't be around at that time. We should move the military around to account for this change in plans.

The GPP plan looks fine. We can add merchants to marble for the T+6 GPP since we can use the physics scientist as a replacement. If we get a second GM from 2-fish as a result on T+9, then that will become one of our VC GPP. We have one sitting GS and will get one from physics so we can use those two for bulbing if necessary (and convert T+6 and T+9/22 into VC GP). And by my calculations, you should not have to bulb for physics until T+13, but I'd check the beaker count starting at around T+10 just to be safe.

I wouldn't intend on invading Saladin at this point. That's more of a back-up plan than anything else. Making sure we can conquer barb island is military priority #1. #2 would be sending maces/cats to Saladin's continent for our fall back plan.

 

[mystyfly]

Galleon cargo is 3 units, only dutch galleons can load 4.

So I can replace any mace in the MM plan by infra/wealth after we have our 6 maces?

 

[shyuhe]

Is there any infra that will pay off in 30-40 turns? The observatory in Delhi is about the only one that comes to mind. I think we should continue building maces/cats until the T+23 GP is generated in Delhi. We can re-evaluate our need to invade Saladin at that point but we should continue building the units in the interim to leave that option open. Worst case, we can just gift them to Japan or something.

I think there are two galleons that sail to the barb island, so you're actually carrying 6 units per sailing. I just didn't mention the two missionaries that are going along for the ride in the second shipment.

 

[mystyfly]

Buildings I consider worth building:

Delhi:
observatory
buddhist temple
confucian monastery?

ivory:
buddhist temple

varanasi:
granary


Kinda amazed how we're having around zero courthouses

Since most cities are quite hammer-poor I'll set them to build wealth while having the other cities (mostly those that already have rax) build units. How many galleons do we want? Getting them out in time is not looking to be that easy.

Well then I don't exactly understand what you mean shyuhe. First 2 galleons that leave for Barbland will carry maces, then come the warriors then the GPs. This way we keep the option open to send other GPs than originally planned should our plans get screwed by the RNG. Also GPs have 2 MP as opposed to the warrior's 1.

Another option is to have 1 galleon bring units between homeland and SallyTokuJustLand and one bringing them from there to Barbland. The big risk is just if we happen to end up in war with any of those civs...

 

[mdy]

Monasterys will be obsolete before we can build one in the capital. Building a granary in Varnasi will be counterproductive as it would delay growth too much (we can get one in the incense city though). Ivory needs to build maces for the barb continent so it won't have time to build a temple.

Since most cities are quite hammer-poor I'll set them to build wealth while having the other cities (mostly those that already have rax) build units. How many galleons do we want? Getting them out in time is not looking to be that easy.

Even the hammer poor cities can build a mace, so I think we should do so. With a merchant we have no real need for wealth. We need 2 galleons for the transport from ivory to the barb island. One is being built in 2 fish, the other needs to be chopped in rice. A third galleon will be needed to transport units to the gold as we will be building units quicker than the galley can transport them. The easiest way to do this is to continue the partially built galleon in marble.

First 2 galleons that leave for Barbland will carry maces, then come the warriors then the GPs. This way we keep the option open to send other GPs than originally planned should our plans get screwed by the RNG. Also GPs have 2 MP as opposed to the warrior's 1.

We will have plenty of spare transport capacity to send units to the barb island, so it doesn't matter if we send additional GP's there - it doesn't matter where they are if they are used for bulbs. I don't think all the warriors will arrive in time for them all to go on the second sailing.

 

[mystyfly]

Yeah, monasteries are too late hammer2. How is it counterproductive? I'd rather have it grow as much as possible and have delhi work the silver.

Slowly build maces, fine, but skip the rax...? We could build research as well... This doesn't help much of course but I kinda doubt that those cities can build any maces in time. Agree with you regarding galleons.

 

[mdy]

How is it counterproductive?

Because we would have to work the silver to build it before we could win, this would reduce growth here by more than we would gain from the granary. The only way it could be built at all is if we worked the silver, and as you pointed out it would be better to have the capital work it.

I kinda doubt that those cities can build any maces in time.

2 dish can build a mace on T+25 after finishing the galleon. Rice can build an archer for city garrison, allowing us to send the warrior to the fur. We probably don't have time to do anything in marble after the galleon though.

 

[Mutineer]

common folk, 23 of august is not that far away. we drop to below 1 turn-set/week speed.

 

[shyuhe]

common folk, 23 of august is not that far away. we drop to below 1 turn-set/week speed.

I think there's about 4 turns sets left in this game, which means we need to do a set per week to finish. That being said, I think mysty is good to go with his plan? The only thing I'll reiterate is that the military builds should continue until T+22, so that we can re-evaluate the military option at that point.

 

[mystyfly]

PPP

Misc

• Spread Buddhism to our cities - we have one buddhist missionary and ivory is building maces - that ok, will we get enough missionaries until the end of the game?
• Set EP to Saladin
• Whales
• Gifting civil service to Toku
• bring ~6 maces and a chariot to Barbland to capture cities and track down workers
• bring some units near sally in case we DOW him (if we need more votes?)
• shift around specs as per mdy's plan
• techs SM > Physics
• trade for any tech and gold there is

MM

Spoiler :

Ivory:
T+4 mace
T+8 mace
T+13 mace
T+18 mace
T+21 missionary for barb island
T+23 missionary for barb island
T+25 archer
research
missionary T+28 (for Oasis T+33)
missionary T+31 (for Sugar T+36)
then wealth/research/ spare missionaries for barb island

galleons sail with 6 maces on T+18. Devils Gate should fall on T+23, and Zhou around T+28.
Second galleon sailing on T+23 with 2 missionaries, 3GP's, and 1 warrior
Third galleon sailing on T+34 with 3 warriors, final GP, and any extra missionaries

Rice:

Send warrior on coast to ivory
T+11 galleon with 1 chop, arrives ivory T+16
Delay GP so capital produces one before rice
T+21 archer, send warrior to ivory arrives T+34
Build wealth/research/maces

2 Fish:

send scientist to ivory
T+9 galleon
Hopefully next GP is merchant for Mecca
T+25 mace
Send last GP to ivory
T+40 mace
Send GP to ivory

Oasis:

What about the settler?
T+8 mace
T+15 mace
T+23 mace
T+26 archer, send warrior to ivory
Build wealth/research/maces

Bombay:

T+5 mace
T+10 mace
T+15 mace
T+20 mace
T+25 mace
T+29 mace
T+34 mace
Build wealth/research/maces

Sugar:
T+3 mace
T+10 mace
T+17 mace
T+24 mace
T+31 mace
T+38 mace
Build wealth/reseacrh/maces

Marble:

T+24 galleon
Build wealth/research/maces


Gold:

T+19 lighthouse, stop working gold mine, maximise growth

Capital:

Send artist to ivory
work grass mines
T+11 observatory
T+15 temple, start working cottages instead
T+19 missionary for Bombay (T+20)
T+23 missionary for deer (T+24)
Continue mace
T+28 missionary for gold (T+34)
finish mace if time before starting U.N.

Incense:

chop granary, pasture horses, start lightouse

GP

Spoiler :

T+0 Hire merchants instead of scientist in marble. Leave all other specs as they are now? Send current artist and scientist to ivory.
T+6 Generate GP in marble. If it is a scientist send to ivory. If it is a merchant send to Mecca, and hire scientists + engineer in place of merchants in 2 fish. Rehire scientists in marble.
T+11 Generate a GP in 2 fish. If it is a merchant and we don't already have one send to Mecca, if we do send to ivory. If it is an engineer save in capital. If it is a scientist also send to ivory. If it is an artist curse the RNG a thousand times for screwing us again. Fire all scientists in rice.
T+13 rehire 5 scientist in rice (should now be at pop 14)
T+23 GP generated in capital, if it is an engineer and we don't have one keep in capital, otherwise send to ivory. Fire capital specialists. Starve rice by hiring 3 more specialists. Starve 2 fish by hiring extra specialist there
T+28 Generate GP in rice. Fire 3 scientists. Hire an extra specialist in 2 fish
T+31 Final specialist generated in 2 fish. If GE and we don't already have one send to capital, otherwise send to ivory

When the open questions (red) are cleared I'm going to play.

 

[shyuhe]

I'd leave all other specs as they are now. We need the GM to keep our research up. We'll shuffle the GP after T+11 but that'll be after your set

What's the settler question for? Isn't he going to settle incense/horse?

Also, if we gift Toku CS, do we incur worse enemy penalties? We will need Justinian's votes to win so we might want to think twice about doing a pure gift. Yes I know I'm reneging on my earlier position.

 

[babybluepants]

I started another settler in Oasis after the current one completed. We were planning to settle another city in Barbland, but it seems the consensus now is to not. I guess we're just canceling the build?

 

[shyuhe]

I think so. We don't have enough boats to send it to barbland and I don't think there's any where to put it on our current island.

 

[mystyfly]

Yeap, settler for incense is in position. I'll cancel the build then.

I'll try to get as much as possible for CS but I don't expect much...

My GP question is manily due to the engineer/no engineer discussion. I'll just leave them then

 

[mdy]

Yeap, settler for incense is in position.

Isn't 1 East of the current position a better city location? (It will maximise the chop)

 

[shyuhe]

No engineer outside of Delhi until after the current GP's are born on T+6 (for marble) and T+11 (for 2-fish).

 

[mystyfly]

1E maximizes chop but loses lots of food. 1SW gains max food while still getting the 2nd incense tile in 2nd ring. 1E is fine by me.

 

[shyuhe]

I have no strong preference for incense. Remember that we can build culture to pop borders, so I'd go for max food.

 

[mystyfly]

The issue is changing a few more (farmable) grasstiles for some hammers. Minimal food = chop in BFC of incense city, current location + maxfood location means that the chop goes to oasis city where it is only in the 3rd ring.