SGOTM 11 - Shaka, not stirred

Andronicus · Nov 4, 2006

490AD cont
Near Frankfurt kn retreats G 4/4archer, kn d 4/4archer (4/4) [50-6]

IT
Samuri loses to impi on iron (5/5) [51-6]
J MDI d e archer [51-7]
Build settler in Umtata and knight in Umfolozi

Turn 5 500AD
Near Hamburg, ekn d 4/5 V archer (2/5)
Near Berlin 11/13 5th knights d F pike (11/13)
Near Najra, trebs go 3/4, MDI d K 3/4LB (2/4), aAC d K 2/4LB (4/6) [55-7]
First WE has appeared on mountains east of Hangchow -> slave to desert as bait

IT
Samuri d Impi on iron - there's Japan's GA [55-8]
WE takes slave bait, but 2 others appear
Build settler in Thebes, Knights in Bap & Ngome, treb in N Bap.
Istanbul deposes -> lose ToA and hence temples in cities -> Zim riots, scroll ahead and save Bap from same fate
Russia completes Leo's in Moscow

Turn 6 510AD
Lux to 10%
Settle N Tugela (combat settle to Hamburg)
@ Hamburg
trebs and cat go 3/3 - at least 4 spears -> get more reinforcements
Near Berlin ekn d F MDI (4/5)
Leave Berlin open so can take F knight on grass rather than forest.
Near Hangchow; trebs 1/5 on WEs, kn d WE(1/4), LB loses J MDI(1/4), kn d J 1/4MDI(promotes 3/5), LB loses 3/4WE(2/4) - and thats India's GA, kn d 2/4WE(4/4), recapture slave and leave as bait again [59-10]
Spend money shortrushing knights

IT
C LB retreats kn (leaves vulnerable to WEs)
A LB loses to kn (2/4)
WE d 1/4kn, captures slave [60-11]
Musketeers appear
France captures Berlin (steals 1g)
Build rax in N Swazi (in ex-German land), Knights in Zim, Hlob, Isand, Mpondo, Tugela, Settler in N Hlob
Japs, Vikings, French switch builds to Sistine

Turn 7 520AD
@ Berlin
kn loses F kn (2/4), ekn loses F2/4kn (3/5), kn d F3/5kn (2/4) -> capture
@ Hamburg
trebs 0/3, ekn d spear(2/5), kn loses spear, 5th knights d spear, kn d spear (2/3spear and 2 archers remain) -> wait
Near Hangchow; trebs 4/4 on WE, kn d 1/5WE (4/4), kn d C2/4LB(4/4)
Near Alexandria; eAC d MDI -> MGL -> knight army to fight near Hangchow
Near New Memphis egalley d V galley (2/5) - we have 2 elite galleys guarding this straight, reducing risk of landings in ex-Egypt region [67-14]

IT
J MDI retreats 5/6*AC
G archer retreats 2/5 kn, G archer loses 1/5kn [68-14]
SoZ -> AC
Build knights in Bap & Ibab
Beijing completes Sistine Chapel

Turn 8 530AD
@ Hamburg
trebs and cat 2/3 - only 1 redlined spear, 5th knights d 1/3spear -> capture [75-14] -> 2 lux on this continent
Near Hamburg; 3/4kn d G archer (promotes 4/5)
Near Berlin kn d F LB (2/4)
4th Knights d 2 F LBs (12/13)
Near Hangchow; trebs bomb J pike to 2/4, ekn d 2/4pike(5/5) , kn d J LB
Near Alexandria; 4/5kn retreats 2/4MDI, 3/5kn d 2/4MDI (3/5) [75-14]

IT
WE d 4/4kn on mountain [75-15]
Vikings req peace - not now
Build knights in Ulundi & Mpondo, rax in Hangchow
Vikings have Chemistry

Turn 9 540AD
Settle N Umtata as gateway to China
Near Hangchow; Trebs bombard 3WE on mountain to 3hp each, Kn d J LB (promotes 4/5)
@ Nara
kn loses 3/3pike(3/4), kn loses 3/3pike(2/3), kn d 3/4pike, kn retreats 2/3spear, ekn d 2/3pike(3/5), ekn d 2/3spear(4/5), kn d LB (3/4) -> capture
Near El-Amarna; LB loses C archer (promotes 4/5!)
Rush musket in Hangchow (sacrificing slave)
Galley loses to C galley on east coast
Near Berlin
4th knights d V pike (10/13)
@ Cologne
5th knights d 2 spears -> capture

DOW Ottomen - activates Russian and Arab MPPs
@ Pusan
1st MDI d 2 spears -> capture
@ Istanbul
trebs and cat 2/3, MDI loses 2/3spear(1/3), ehorse d 2/3spear -> MGL (-> army), 1/3 spear remains - try impi - Impi d 1/3spear -> capture
OTTOMEN destroyed
Pillage Russian iron
@ Yaroslavl'
2nd MDI d pike + spear (7/13) -> capture
@ Rostov
cat misses, kn loses 3/3pike(1/3), ekn loses 3/3pike (1/3), ekn d 1/3pike (3/5) -> MGL (-> army), kn d 1/3pike(3/4) -> capture with treb
@ St Petersburg
trebs go 1/2, kn d pike(3/4), ekn d (4/5), eMDI d 3/4pike(1/5) -> capture
@ Novgorod (on hill)
trebs 0/4, MDI loses 4/4pike, MDI d 4/4pike, ekn retreatspike(2/3), ekn retreats (2/3), eAC d 2/3pike(2/6) - 1 pike remains
@ Baghdad
eMDI d spear (3/5), eMDI d spear (2/5) -> autorazed [98-23]
IT
slaves captured
@ Nara ; WE loses 2/4kn (2/5), WE d 2/4kn(2/4) -> capture (second WE enters town)
WE loses 4/5kn(3/5)
Near Novgorod R kn d 4/5MDI [100-25]
Build settlers in Thebes and N Memphis, musket in Hangchow

Turn 10 550AD
Oops, found I forgot to move knight I was ship chaining to Germany - wake up the galley and do so
Lack of healthy units at Novgorod (defended by pike and knight), so withdraw batterred troops - trebs left undefended to tempt knight out onto exposed ground
Settle N Umfolozi N of Thebes, fills a gap
Near Cologne; trebs and cat 1/3 v musk, 9/13 5th knights d 3/4 musketeer (6/13), ekn d 3/3F LB -> yet another MGL [102-25]

Stop here with lots of movement left
Need to decide what to do with latest MGL - Pentagon or army? If army can probably better use unfilled army on starting continent.
? Retake Nara - 2 turns till knight army arrives to progress the attack (? on Tsingtao next). Nara defended by 2 injured (3 and 2hp) WEs, 3 injured knights are within range (4/5 and 2 3/5s). The knight in Hangchow showing 2 moves left actually has 4 roaded moves remaining so could move to defend Nara once captured protecting the elites.
Slaves near Hangcow I have been using for bait and to allow full rushes. I would suggest 1 more musket to help hold the line.
Healthy 1stMDI is in Pusan - ? attack Wonsan abandoning Pusan (we are making lots of settlers so filling in for razed cities is no problem)
Healing 2nd MDI in Yaroslavl' and 7th knights (needs 1 more - hence *horse to upgrade next turn) in Rostov subject to flip risk 1.5% and 6.3% max respectively. Do you want to risk 1 turn? The 1st should then move on to Yakustk which is likely to be lightly defended, the 7th poss Moscow (likely most defenders) or help out at Novgorod (my choice). I think Russia should go in 3 or 4 turns.
I have ignored Mecca but that would be next priority after Russia to secure 1 front.
I have been using CITY GOVERORS for cities I am actively quelling resistors where there is a likelihood of disorder once quelled - currently only Rostov and St Petersburg
Impi in Uskadar has just been moved there for purpose of quelling resistors, planned to move to Antalya next.

City MM
Thebes is 4 turn SF
Zimbabwe can do 3 turn knights by working mountain (mine completes next IT) and slight starving. This gives over 20 spt allowing short rushing settler after 1st turn then completes the other 40 shields following 2 turns (currently Ulundi borrowing Z's goat mountain as extra shields decreases the cost of short-rushing here)
Can not get Ulundi and Mpondo to 10spt each, however can do one 10, the other 9 - by switching arund can short rush one one turn to musket then 10 shields to knight, then next turn give the mBG to the other so it can be shortrushed with 10 shields to produce knight. The other option I used once was disbanding a slave to make the extra shields.
7 spt towns I have not done any rushing in - they are most efficient as is.
8 spt towns can rush settler after 1 turn, leAving further 5 turns for remaining 40shields
Ngome is slowly starving to keep up 10spt - once another hill is mined it can work that instead of iron to give 10spt and no starving (can actually stop the starving and move off the iron onto hill now and will still produce knight in 3 turns as has been doing 11spt)
N Sazi and Leopzig are building vet horses. Once we have captured Moscow (Leo's) it will be cheaper to rush horses here, and shipchain to starting continent for upgrade, than continuing our current short rushes. I thought about disconecting / reconecting iron. Is it worth it? possibly.

markh · Nov 4, 2006

Am I too drunk ? 3 MGLs. ? :eek:

I will reinstall my C3C. Something must be wrong with my installation.

I'd say another army.

Andronicus · Nov 4, 2006

markh said:
Am I too drunk ? 3 MGLs.

Actually it was 5
I cant believe it, all within 10 turns when we have gone whole games without any. I think I've done my luck of getting any in any upcoming GOTMs.

Roster
Abegweit
Paul - Up and raring to go
Andronicus - just played and got lucky with MGL disease
markh - on deck

Paul#42 · Nov 5, 2006

this is looking great!! :eek:

I got it and will look at it this evening. My ladies will be really annoyed because Dad is just drooling for the evening...

Andronicus · Nov 5, 2006

Some thoughts on future progress
Currently have 30% land - require further 45%.
France next largest
How about keep cranking knights to conquor our starting continent (AERO almost gone, with armies JICK should also fold) whilst on other continent largely ignore France with her 5 defence unit and concentrate on wiping out Germany quickly, then moving to England and America (England has KT, America has spears), lastly Vikes - this way we can make peace with France once Germany gone, no worries by time we redeclare on Vikings.
Probably worth sending most settlers to other continent as that where highest culture is (America and France), so razing may be way to go at beginning of war against these.

Paul#42 · Nov 5, 2006

Nice ratio!

Andronicus said:
Need to decide what to do with latest MGL - Pentagon or army? If army can probably better use unfilled army on starting continent.

Not sure... I think Pentagon could be in order to strengthen all 8 armies. Mathematically this is 1/4 * 8 = 2 armies' strength versus 1 army I could build.
Is there any downside of joining a *AC to a knight's army? Or will they look down on him and feel hurt in their pride?

Andronicus said:
I have been using CITY GOVERORS for cities I am actively quelling resistors where there is a likelihood of disorder once quelled - currently only Rostov and St Petersburg

smart. Never thought of this :blush:

Andronicus said:
N Sazi and Leopzig are building vet horses. Once we have captured Moscow (Leo's) it will be cheaper to rush horses here, and shipchain to starting continent for upgrade, than continuing our current short rushes. I thought about disconecting / reconecting iron. Is it worth it? possibly.

I think so. Upgrading (1.5 gold per shield with Leo's) is more effective than shortrushing (4 gps). Yet takes a turn more. However to combine both is best...
In a 10-spt-town, shortrushing a knight is 20s, 200g. Shortrushing a horse and upgrading is 20s, 40g (rush) + 60g (up) = 100g.
However we won't do much shortrushing then because we would need the money for upgrades... :rolleyes:

Abegweit · Nov 5, 2006

According to CAII, we have 769 dom tiles and the limit is 1385. There's something wrong here because 769 is 30% of 2563. My guess is that 769 is correct but that something is wrong with the limit calc. Anyway, eyeballing it, I would say that there is probably about the same amount left to be conquered on our continent. Maybe a bit more. The ToA should take care of filling in most of the open space, which leaves about 15% to get from the other side.

Thus we need about 380 tiles on the other continent. American, England, Germany and Scandanavia have 31 cities between them. Each will give us 9 tiles, perhaps a bit more (and note that Stavenger and Liverpool are not on the continent and only have 16 tiles between them). The conclusion is that we have to wipe out the four civs completely and probably settle a few more towns of our own (a half dozen or so).

The timing should be such that the other continent is taken down about 5 turns after our own (the time it will take the ToA to fill in the space around the last city captured at home). By my count, it is roughly 11 turns from Z to Oslo on horseback. We can't afford to wait. So we should start by moving troops to the other side. Same thing applies to settlers. The next few sound go to the other continent. It is five turns from Thebes to New Mpo and a long way further to anywhere useful.

If the campaign seems to be going especially well, we can later decide to divert some to India. The distance is much shorter, only 2.5 turns from Z to Hangchow. Furthermore, Wang will accept peace for 8 gpt. If things get too hairy on that front, or you simply think you need to concentrate on Cathy for a couple of turns, this will work fine.

Oh, one thing. While I agree that we should not attempt to take the French, we shouldn't ignore them either. They need to lose their iron. I note that the Germans will accept a ROP. Presumably, the French will too. It's too late to stop the Musketeers. We can at least take out the MDIs and Knights. The iron at Avignon needs to get pillaged, as well as any other they may have.

Abegweit · Nov 5, 2006

Paul#42 said:
Not sure... I think Pentagon could be in order to strengthen all 8 armies. Mathematically this is 1/4 * 8 = 2 armies' strength versus 1 army I could build.

The MGL is on the other continent. I strongly favour an army. We need to get the game going over there. If we get an MGL at home, build the Pentagon.

Is there any downside of joining a *AC to a knight's army? Or will they look down on him and feel hurt in their pride?

If you add an AC to a knight army, you will get two additional HPs (I'm assuming we are comparing vet knight to elite AC). However, the attack goes down when the AC is up to bat (5 instead of 6). Well worth it in my view, especially since the vet knight is better on the field than the elite AC.

A straight AC army is not bad either on the condition that we have the Pentagon. With Pent, AC armies attack at 5. W/O, they attack at 4. For knights, it's 6 either way. Adding an AC to 2-knight army is bad though because the knights will attack 5 and the AC at 4.

I think so. Upgrading (1.5 gold per shield with Leo's) is more effective than shortrushing (4 gps). Yet takes a turn more. However to combine both is best...
In a 10-spt-town, shortrushing a knight is 20s, 200g. Shortrushing a horse and upgrading is 20s, 40g (rush) + 60g (up) = 100g.
However we won't do much shortrushing then because we would need the money for upgrades...

To make this work, there are several options. The most reasonable, in my view is to disconnect the iron at home, building horses which would then be upgraded at Avignon. Taking this city is desirable for several reasons, this being one of them. It should be razed and replaced though. The flip risk would certainly be enormous otherwise.

With re-connect, we could also upgrade a few at home as well...

Andronicus · Nov 5, 2006

I agree totally with raze and replace Avignon (size 5 on grass) - merely pillaging the iron there will allow it to be reconnected later. once resettled in our colours peace with France whilst beat up the easybeats is the fastest way to dom.
This would need to be a defendable position as I'm sure Joan will break peace treaty at some stage (since our rep is busted) and any undefended city in reach would be an open invitation.

Civassist only counts the tiles you can see towards dom.
It is accurate only for number of dom tiles held, totally inaccurate for number required where there is a sig unexplored region.
The victory screen in the game says we have 30% - that is accurate and can roughly calculate from there need a further 769 * 1.5 = 1104
According to civassist we have 692 dom tiles and 817 "land" tiles (looking in the "general" field). I think land tiles must refer to total tiles. Therefore the land tiles it lists for AERO and JICK remaining totalling 692 probably accounts for approx 650 domination tiles. This leaves approx 400 tiles to get from other continent. i dont trust the civassist figures for the other continent as the game says France is coming second in territory at 10%, but civassist says it has 130 land tiles compared to our 817 - less than 1/6. Using the eyeball method I would suggest Germany, England, America and 1/2 - 2/3 of Scandinavia should get dom in addition to our starting continent.

Good call on upgrading horses in France, we could pillage iron on home continent without too much upset to production. I would suggest leaving a slave crew and pillager on the iron hill in SW Egypt for those cities where 70 shields is better than 30. This should give us an extra knight per turn.

Re empty army and MGL.
Empty army NE of Thebes - no knights nearby - there are 3 MDI just to the east in ?Damascus and nearby city (?Najrad) - dont have save avail as at work.
MGL - I favour army, fill with *knight, healthy knight in nearby city and healing knight in another (no other vet nights on other continent). This would allow knight army near Berlin to be advanced towards Avignon this turn with view to razing next turn. Need to get settler there ASAP.

Abegweit · Nov 5, 2006

Andronicus said:
I agree totally with raze and replace Avignon (size 5 on grass) - merely pillaging the iron there will allow it to be reconnected later. once resettled in our coulurs peace with France whilst beat up the easybeats is the fastest way to dom.
This would need to be a defendable position as I'm sure Joan will break peace treaty at some stage (since our rep is busted) and any undefended city in reach would be an open invitation.

Agreed. Let's grab it.

Civassist only counts the tiles you can see towards dom.
It is accurate only for number of dom tiles held, totally inaccurate for number required where there is a sig unexplored region.

I see that. It should, though, make the reasonable assumption that all of tiles in the unexplored part of a continent are dom tiles. Anyway...

The victory screen in the game says we have 30% - that is accurate and can roughly calculate from there need a further 769 * 1.5 = 1104

Assuming these two numbers are right, the dom limit is 10/3 * 769 or approximately 2563 (1.5 is the wrong multiplier to get the remainder - it should be 7/3). We need 75% of these (1925) which means we need another 1156 tiles. My calculations above were based on this.

According to civassist we have 692 dom tiles and 817 "land" tiles (looking in the "general" field). I think land tiles must refer to total tiles. Therefore the land tiles it lists for AERO and JICK remaining totalling 692 probably accounts for approx 650 domination tiles.

Look at the territory tab instead. It says that we have 769 dom tiles and 817 total tiles. 692 is actually the number of total tiles owned by the enemy on our continent. I never noticed the info on the general tab. It's useful so let's re-calculate using it. CivAssist also mentions 242 unclaimed dom tiles. At least 150 of them should be easily-claimable territory on our home continent.

This leaves approx 400 tiles to get from other continent. i dont trust the civassist figures for the other continent as the game says France is coming second in territory at 10%, but civassist says it has 130 land tiles compared to our 817 - less than 1/6. Using the eyeball method I would suggest Germany, England, America and 1/2 - 2/3 of Scandinavia should get dom in addition to our starting continent.

France quite clearly has roughly 256 dom tiles (either 10% of 2653 or 1/3 of 769). So... recounting. We have 769 and we should be able to get about 800-850 more on the home continent. Call it 1600 total. This leaves about 356 more to go. My earlier estimate was pretty close :cool:

The problem is that we don't have a ToA over there. If we conquer a country we will have perhaps half its tiles towards the dom limit, which is why I calculated territory by city. Averaging 10 tiles per city, we will have to take every city in all four countries in order to get there. A few well-placed settlers can help a lot. We'll need some on the home continent too.

Paul#42 · Nov 6, 2006

I played 6 turns into my set, ~60 victories, like some 40 of them elite - guess what - not a single MGL... :ack:

I really feel like playing some other guy's turnset... :hmm:

Or somebody had really squeezed all MGLs out of the RNG... :rolleyes:

Andronicus said:
I agree totally with raze and replace Avignon (size 5 on grass) - merely pillaging the iron there will allow it to be reconnected later. once resettled in our colours peace with France whilst beat up the easybeats is the fastest way to dom.

I already did that - these gay french muskets are NO match to our armies.

Our 9th knight army killed three of them almost flawlessly (~10/13), taking and razing the town without need to pillage Iron. It's out of France now.
But they have two other sources, one already pillaged, the other still unknown. But our MDI found their salt deep inside France...
If we avoid attacking muskets on mountains, we do not loose too many units - I see no need for peace right now.
I rushed some galleys to carry settlers from Egypt over. We don't need too many of them on our continent.

Andronicus said:
Good call on upgrading horses in France, we could pillage iron on home continent without too much upset to production. I would suggest leaving a slave crew and pillager on the iron hill in SW Egypt for those cities where 70 shields is better than 30. This should give us an extra knight per turn.

Already did that on my second turn.
I found ut we have no buidling for 20 shields, so we have difficulties to short rush horses :wallbash:

And our production is a little odd for horses production - very few 5 or 6-shield sites.

Andronicus said:
Re empty army and MGL.
Empty army NE of Thebes - no knights nearby - there are 3 MDI just to the east in ?

I joined an AC to speed it up. However I was a little careless with it - it's still on a ship :blush:

(First the AC had to pillage Iron, then the galley had to chase the Russian galley, then... you know... :rolleyes:

)

Andronicus said:
MGL - I favour army, fill with *knight, healthy knight in nearby city and healing knight in another (no other vet nights on other continent). This would allow knight army near Berlin to be advanced towards Avignon this turn with view to razing next turn. Need to get settler there ASAP.

All done. 9th knights army already earned their share of glory in France

I cleared out Russia - yet the famous "settler on a galley" escaped. Lost an elite galley trying to track a russian galley down. :mad:

Arabs are also history. Korea should be at the end of my set, China close to. Germany has one town left (Frankfurt had flipped and the spear took two of our vet knights :ack:

). Progress in India is slow, Sams make things tough there. I guess I will send an army to their Iron soon.

markh · Nov 6, 2006

Paul#42 said:
I played 6 turns into my set, ~60 victories, like some 40 of them elite - guess what - not a single MGL...
I really feel like playing some other guy's turnset...
Or somebody had really squeezed all MGLs out of the RNG...

It is near to my turn, so it is getting dark around the RNG. I start having the impression that Andronicus has a personal Heroic Epic in his pocket.

Sounds like good progress. :goodjob:

Paul#42 · Nov 6, 2006

Sorry for making this break without providing you with a save.

I had played till 2:15 AM this morning and could not spend any time on uploading it. :mischief:

I will continue playing this evening id est in 7 hours from now. Can't wait for it... :drool:

Paul#42 · Nov 6, 2006

Okay, here it is:

Take off
Wow, exciting progress! Great to play the set after such an amazing turnset. I'm feeling like a little boy under the chrismas tree - don't know which toy to play first with...

detailed turnlog:

Spoiler :

After flight check
It started with a leader and I can leave one for my successor... But it took me like 50 elite victories (didn't count) :rolleyes:

The MGL should rush Pentagon.
A Korean settler lost on galley... :ack:

A little too optimistic, I did not go after China yet.
Most units are exhausted. (sorry)
Lots have movement. I did not do India and France moves yet.
No MM for this turn done.
Had I known I would get all Korean gold I would have rushed more horses

Hastings will be lost to overwhelming forces. Raze or gift?
I guess some diplomacy is in order. I suggest peace with Germans to regroup. Maybe after razing Rheims?

Maybe I should have prevented the America backstab :blush:

Here is the save

Paul#42 · Nov 6, 2006

Okay, here it is:

Take off
Wow, exciting progress! Great to play the set after such an amazing turnset. I'm feeling like a little boy under the chrismas tree - don't know which toy to play first with...

detailed turnlog:

Spoiler :

After flight check
It started with a leader and I can leave one for my successor... But it took me like 50 elite victories (didn't count) :rolleyes:

The MGL should rush Pentagon.
A Korean settler lost on galley... :ack:

A little too optimistic, I did not go after China yet.
Most units are exhausted. (sorry)
Lots have movement. I did not do India and France moves yet.
No MM for this turn done.
Had I known I would get all Korean gold I would have rushed more horses

Hastings will be lost to overwhelming forces. Raze or gift?
I guess some diplomacy is in order. I suggest peace with Germans to regroup. Maybe after razing Rheims?

Maybe I should have prevented the America backstab :blush:

Here is the save

Paul#42 · Nov 6, 2006

oops. An Error was reported.

Feel free to ignore or delete.

Paul#42 · Nov 6, 2006

same here..

Paul#42 · Nov 6, 2006

and here

Andronicus · Nov 7, 2006

Man, what some people will do to get their spam count up :rolleyes:

Good progress :goodjob:

- looking forward to studying the save tonight when I get home. That territory graph is looking alright.
BTW we can do 20 shield shortrush if we pillage our salts (or should that be with a pinch of salt?).

markh · Nov 7, 2006

Sounds like you had a lot of fun. :goodjob:

3 civs eliminated. :hatsoff:

SGOTM 11 - Shaka, not stirred

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flyball chaser

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Anarchist trader

Emperor

Anarchist trader

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flyball chaser

flyball chaser

flyball chaser

flyball chaser

flyball chaser

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