SGOTM 11 - Shaka, not stirred

[Paul#42]

The Domination limit is defined as 75% of land and coastal tiles for this game (usually 66%) [...]
On our home continent there will be very few gaps except perhaps at the end where we capture towns and not enough time before cultural expansion - not sure that logistically we could get settlers to these gaps (in China and Japan) in time, but 4 or 5 settlers to move in would be useful. There are a few places where 3 or 4 extra coastal tiles could be claimed - rushing a settler in adjacent town a few turns before the end will take care of these, similarly the 4 tile gap which will remain near Mecca after nearby towns expand.

Aha. So there are some usefull sites even on our own continent left. We need to mark them and plan settlers to get them there in time!

On other continent no town should be building wealth unless it is unable to get to size 3 by 12-15 turns from now. They should all be building settlers to rush at the last min (as Abegweit stated disbanding military will be cost effective way of getting lots of settlers on last few turns). These settlers need to be rushed near to where they will be settled otherwise our final save will have dozens of useless settlers.

It might even be usefull to prepare some roads for these settlers - in close cases even on the tile we want to found on.

I think rushing a settler will always be better than rushing a lib (taking 4 turns to expand)

There are some situations (like in London or Nottingham atm) where a cultural expansion might be worth 4-5 settlers. A dot map would help us to decide that.

This game is so much fun at the moment, its hard to sit back and let someone else play it

No need to sit back - this is a good opportunity to make some plans and maps

edit: I can't hide I'm quite excited over this finish...

 

[markh]

Well I would suggest keeping towns but not keep troops inside flip risk ones - American and French, and not keep armies inside any other than 1st turn (and then better to move out so can start healing 1 turn sooner).

That is exactly the plan I had to continue.

 

[Paul#42]

I just read the first spoiler after realizing we already know gunpowder

I had thought the Indian spear blocked the choke point from the very beginning, tough luck our scouts chose the wrong directions.
I don't want to think about where we would be if we had better knowledge of those lands...

Embarrassing to watch x-nuts grabbing all those early leaders that were meant to be ours

Good to see they are still playing in the 14th century...

Okay, 'nuf moaning, let's plan our victory!

 

[Andronicus]

I just read the first spoiler after realizing we already know gunpowder

does anyone want to post as a spoiler from us?

actually lookng at X-Nuts spoiler it was interesting to see that they did build the town on a hill 2N of Z to bring water to the cow, and in their screenie they had just abandoned it.
I think they made a mistake in not building tight enough and getting full value for more tiles closer to Z. It will be interesting to see the setups of fast finishing teams - my prediction is they had tighter builds (as we have) giving greater overall production allowing for quicker building of their army to dominate the world.
Looks like X-Nuts are going for cavs
And yes, it would have been nice if those damn spears hadnt blocked our way.

 

[markh]

4) 690AD continued : send the MDI to the Chinese salt
make the deal with korea
knight army kills spear in Chicago (11-2)

IBT : Scandinavia drops a settler - spear combo on our home island N of Z. Saves us a settler later on

5) 700AD : kill 3 spears in Chicago (14-2)

IBT : London flips, losing two knights

6) 710AD : I call our forces in China that the treaty is over and dow

trigger JICK alliance

Tatung is destroyed killing 2 muskets, losing one knight (16-3)
take Tsingtao killing 3 muskets (19-3)
lose a knight on a longbow at Tsingtao (19-4)
another kills that longbow and pomotes elite (20-4)
kill 4 muskets in Shanghai and the city is ours (24-4)
lose a knight on the attack on York, killing 3 spears (27-5)
take back Londong killing 2 spears (29-5)
kill the remaining horse in Chicago and the city is ours (30-5)
destroy Macao killing a musket (31-5)

eAC kills a Korean longbow (32-5) and we get a leader

eMDI kills Chinese longbow (33-5)
MDI army kills Chinese horse (34-5)

IBT : lose a knight to a Chinese counterattack (34-6)

7) 720AD : knight kills spear in Warwick (35-7)
AC kills spear in Warwick (36-7)
eknight kills longbow in Warwick and the city falls (37-7)
knight army kills a musket in Chengdu (38-7)
MDI army kills a musket in Chengdu (39-7)

IBT : nothing

8) 730AD : knight kills spear in Canterbury (40-7)
knight kills spear in Canterbury (41-7)
knight retreats on spear in Canterbury

knight kills spear in Canterbury (42-7), takes the city and we own Knights Templar

knight kills a longbow at Canterbury and promotes elite (43-7)
MDI army kills a musket in Chengdu (44-7)
knight army kills a musket and takes Chengdu (45-7)
MDI army kills Chinese longbow at Chengdu (46-7)
eknight kills WE at New Umtata (47-7)
AC kills Chinese longbow at New Umatata (48-7)
eknight loses to yellow WE at Nara (48-8)
eknight kills that WE (49-8)
MDI army kills spear in Nanking (50-8)
knight army kills American longbow near Chicago (51-8)

IBT : argh, Japan allies Vikes against us

9) 740AD :

I think it is better to hand it over to the next one with the new situation. If we attack a Vike we will trigger the alliance with France and Germany. Nothing we want at the moment as the main part of our forces are in the North. I rather let the Vikes take Chicago and take it back in 1 or 2 turns.

We can finish off the English this turn and can regroup our forces there to handle the French and Viking border then.

On the home continent I was a little slow for my taste, but the muskets damaged our armies considerably, so I could not advance faster. I have loaded the AC into an army and it is on the way to the Nara area where there are some knights that can fill that army.

I connected the iron last turn to upgrade soem horses to knights at home to strengthen our units there. I have disconnected it at the beginning of this turn. You might wonder why there is an AC on that iron near Thebes.

File will be uploaded in a minute.

 

[Andronicus]

If we attack a Vike we will trigger the alliance with France and Germany. Nothing we want at the moment as the main part of our forces are in the North. I rather let the Vikes take Chicago and take it back in 1 or 2 turns.

Actually though its a bummer for Japan to MA with Vikes (Germany would have been better, France worse) all is not lost. We can take advantage of the situation and get rid of most of the zerks (11 of Scandinavia's zerks are around Chicago) without triggerring the French alliance. This gives us time to finish off England and prepare to stave off France. We were needing to attack Vikes soon anyway, just we wont be able to rop rape.
I suggest we dont attack vikings in their own area until America secured, just pick off units sent to us. Once we are ready (maybe 2 or 3 turns from now)we can launch full scale offensive we do so with majority of our forces on that continent, leaving just enough to hold French at bay.
China must go soon - not sure why trebs and cats so far behind the lines, they are useful knocking down muskets (and WEs and sams). To get them quickly to front need to let AI capture them (but not on a road within 3 tiles of their cities). We then recapture, hopefully 1 or 2 tiles from the target city ready to weaken defences and capture cities more quickly. With 3 AI to fight (China, India and Japan) things are naturally slower than they will be with 2 or 2 left. They should fall rapidly towards the end - hopefully still within next 14 or so turns.
We still require 668 tiles for dom so need to get our skates on.
This turn the settler by Chegdu will give us 9. Also Nanking defended only by LB should fall to MDI army for another 9. There are a few places extra tiles can be filled on home continent (eg Rostov settler should go 2E, 1N of Yaroslavl') Perhaps also time to fill tiles with 2E of Nagoya and northern desert peninsula. As we near the limit then switching from horses that wont make it to the front to settlers to get eg 2S of Ngome for 3 tiles and S,SW of Isand for 2 more may be worthwhile to save a turn.

I note a French spear can take Nottingham next turn if tempted - perhaps diverting a knight there may be wise

Good luck Abegweit

 

[Paul#42]

Good progress, just a slight drop of the 1st derivation of our territory curve.

Bad luck that the server was down on weekend, otherwise I would have loved to prepare a dot map and invasion plan as I really consider it necessary for the most accurate planning.

Andro or Abegweit, do you have spare time this evening to do a map? Or don't you consider it useful? Maybe I try one for our continent in my lunch break.

I'd like to discuss our settling strategy thoroughly. I had too many games I ended up with units that never made it to the front just because I was lazy and exhausted. I'd like to avoid this this time...

 

[Abegweit]

I have a lot of work this week. Can I ask for a swap?

 

[Andronicus]

OK Paul, FWIW I've done dot maps of our starting continent showing (almost) all avail domination tiles using civassist
Map 1
Our starting area
47 tiles reasonably avail (7 settlers, 8 if raze and replace Haried)
13 when take Haried (should grow size 2 10 turns after settled)
9 fom pink dot (on salt 2N of Amit.)
7 from red dot (2S N Bap)
5 from yellow (2N Ibab)
5 from black (2E Nagoya)
3 from green and brown, 2 from blue (if have nothing else to do)
edit - just found 2 more sites - S,SW of Isand gives 2 and 2NW Ngome gives 1

Map 2
AERO region (15 or 16 avail - 5 or 6 settlers)
Not a lot avail do to ToA expansions
5 from black dot (2E,1N of Yaroslavl' - use settler at Rostov?)
3 from green (N,NW of Heliopolis)
4 from blue (Damascus closes these in 15 turns when it has its second expansion, but this may be too late)
2 from pink (initially I misplaced it getting only 1)
1 from red (actually another 1 tile avail if settle forest 2SW Pi-Ramesses)

Map 3
JICK region -this depends on conquoring JICK - the sooner we do the more territory expansion we get.
Not shown is 10 tiles if settler settles in place 3SE of Ulundi2.
15 tiles from expansion existing towns (Shanghai and Tsingtao 2 turns, Chengdu 4 turns)
45 tiles Chinese towns, 58 from Indian towns, 62 from Japanese towns
Potentially another 150 from cultural expansions
Toal 340 tiles - over half of what we need
Based on this I think we should press as many knights into action here to get these ASAP and perhaps rush some libs to speed expansion on last few turns

On other continent I believe we should not attack Vikes in their territory until we have secured all England and America. I make that about 63 tiles from 6 towns with possibly 80-100 tiles avail simply with filling in (we can push France's borders back a little). Maybe 20 or so settlers required here - I might do a dot map for there if I get time tomorrow.

So summarising
We need 668 tiles
47 settling starting area and taking Haried
15 settling AERO area
25 from settler and expansions in JICK region
165 from JIC(K) towns
150 fom culture expansions (this would require lib rushes - may limit this possibility)
63 from America - England towns
? 100 from filling in other continent
-> 563
Require another 100+ from Vikings - say 10 towns, thats most of their continental holdings.
We can afford to mount a holding operation against French once we attack vikings.

 

[Andronicus]

Can I ask for a swap?

Um, does that make it Paul or me - I usually follow Paul, but Paul went turn before last?

 

[markh]

Thanks for the maps. Well, this answered Paul's question quickly whether you would have some time this evening.

England should be out of the game this turn. Our units are in front of their final city and if they do not have a galley around they are finished. America defending with spears should also fall quickly.

BTW the Korean galley is visible North of our desert city towards Egyptian lands. Don't know whether it is worth finishing them off now. Flip risks of former Korean cities are below 1% IIRC.

I think sooner or later the Vikings will ally France against us, so we should get prepared at the French border.

 

[Paul#42]

I have a lot of work this week. Can I ask for a swap?

Of course you can

Um, does that make it Paul or me - I usually follow Paul, but Paul went turn before last?

Just to not make this a Germans-exclusice-event - go ahead
You definetely earned this by finally reacting to my begging and placing some dot maps here
Although this might put me out of reach for another turnset if A&A finish inside 21 turns' frame.

 

[Paul#42]

@dot maps: All of those towns in our old world + former Egypt work without expansion thus can be settled on the last turn. Settlers can come from close-by towns, so no need to get them before turn x-3. Of course it doesn't hurt if we can found them earlier - More income by wealth and taxmen. Maybe we keep that desert area empty to encourage landings of runnaway settlers?

I'd clear that Viking town soon, rather plant an own settler there than counting on the AI to cooperate...

Towns in JIC are up to 21 tiles away from now's borders, if we use our slaves that's 7 turns to travel, one to settle, 5 to expand - at x-13 the farest settlers should be ready to start (worst case). Capturing towns there and rushing settlers in there (disbanding knights and chopping forests doesn't need to quel resistance first) will speed that up. former Russia & Korea should produce settlers like mad.
However, keep sending settlers from Egypt to Germany.

As soon as a town does not build any more military: sell its barracks.

 

[Andronicus]

@dot maps: All of those towns in our old world + former Egypt work without expansion thus can be settled on the last turn. Settlers can come from close-by towns, so no need to get them before turn x-3. Of course it doesn't hurt if we can found them earlier - More income by wealth and taxmen. Maybe we keep that desert area empty to encourage landings of runnaway settlers?

I'd clear that Viking town soon, rather plant an own settler there than counting on the AI to cooperate...

Towns in JIC are up to 21 tiles away from now's borders, if we use our slaves that's 7 turns to travel, one to settle, 5 to expand - at x-13 the farest settlers should be ready to start (worst case). Capturing towns there and rushing settlers in there (disbanding knights and chopping forests doesn't need to quel resistance first) will speed that up. former Russia & Korea should produce settlers like mad.
However, keep sending settlers from Egypt to Germany.

As soon as a town does not build any more military: sell its barracks.

I plan on naming settlers so it is clear where they are headed for.
There are a few extra spots in JICK territory such as 2NE of Beijing, and the region SW of Canton.

The situation on our home continent requires us getting across that mountain range so we can attack India's belly. Canton must go first.

On the other continent it will be a case of trying to hold off war with France until we are ready whilst eliminating America and England ASAP.
Several other options for more territory include taking Heidelburg - would likely require an army to hold the front here as it will bear the brunt of French attacks, and the 2 Viking islands with 2 towns apiece. I suspect we would have to divert 2 galleys full of knights to each. I think it worthwhile setting up. edit - 4 turns to Stavanger / Liverpool, 3 to Odense and ?.
And yes, there are a few rax and harbours that can be sold

 

[Andronicus]

.

I think sooner or later the Vikings will ally France against us, so we should get prepared at the French border.

100% correct.
Even if they dont ally, I expect Joan to sneak attack - the concern is she has ROP and there are lots of undefended towns and settlers in former English region.
Would cancelling the rop just make her angrier and more likely to dow?

 

[Andronicus]

OK more dot counting (anyone care to check my numbers ) in other continent

Map A
4 relatively safe towns ex Germany - red, blue, purple and green -> 21 tiles
Propose a line of 4 fortified towns along French front - red, orange, lt bue and pink crosses -> 33 tiles
Black and yellow give another 22
Total 76 tiles

Map B
Pink crosses representing 1 English and 5 American towns about to fall -> 56 tiles
Orange, brown and grey fill the interior ->30 tiles
Red, white and lt green in NW peninsula -> 22 tiles (edit move green 1N and add extra 1S of green -> fills block of 4 missed plus adds extra 2 coast -> 28 tiles - sorry it looks so messy)
Purple, lt purple and dk green provide further 22 tiles
Total 136 tiles

This gives 212 tiles before any attack on Viking territory
Add 402 from starting continent -> 614, req further 54 from Vikings.

I think the hardest to get of the above will be conquoring JIC within 10 turns to get cultural expansion, we may have to depend more on Viking territory than Japanese.

 

[Paul#42]

good plans

So there is no need to conquer France - maybe we should disconnect his salt anyway to face LB rather then muskets. Nevertheless we should concentrate our artillery on those border towns to weaken approaching French units on the mountains. No need to finish them off (of course we can ), they will probably turn around even if just barely wounded.

Rather than dividing forces to Viking Islands I would concentrate on Viking mainland. 6 knights are much more benefit there. We would miss them (and two galleys) for 5-6+ turns with dubious success. Even if we use those knights to rush temples we would gain more than those 18 tiles.
Okay, sacrificing those knights on the island would make it 24 tiles...
edit: even worse with the other island Ihad trouble to find...

To get and keep Heidelberg would probably need a knights' army - but it could make sense because we could pick off some French units there. But it does only work if it has no flip risk because our army would need healing.

 

[Andronicus]

Have played 1 turn - taken Coventry (English still alive - must have settler on a galley), Washington and Nanking
5 sams have stacked themselves outside Nara - I'm going to try to coax them off the mountains
At beginning of 750AD we require further 630 tiles - at that rate about 16 more turns - hope I can speed things up - 6 settler builds should help when they arrive
Have upgraded 4 horses and prepared to take them to northern island but have not moved them yet. I'm thinking AI usually doesnt defend island cities all that well so I'm hoping 4 will do the job.

 

[Paul#42]

If I get to play before Abegweit is back, I'd limit myself to 5 turns to leave the rest for him...

I had already thought about some complicated algorithm to determine the length of the next turnset depending on the prospected winning date and last mission's time and duration including a factor involving success (= MGLs per turn minus wasted worker moves)

 

[Andronicus]

Actually I had thought to play less turns, but didnt say anything in case I couldnt put it down
BTW - I am MMing everything I can out of every turn and planning each attack on paper to determine what I have avail and what it can achieve, so updates may be slooooow.
army no 12 appears on 750AD turn - no further captures though