CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Uh, I thought these armies had a movement of one.zyxy said:
-
We are currently performing site maintenance, parts of civfanatics are currently offline, but will come back online in the coming days. For more updates please see here.
SGOTM 11 - Smurkz
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
zyxy
Warmongering Fool
In C3C the armies were spiced up. Key differences with the vanilla version:
- 1 extra movement point
- attack and defense bonus (depending on the number of units in the army; with 3 units the bonus is 50% IIRC)
- healing on the move (like when you have battlefield medicine)
- free pillaging (not sure what this means - perhaps pillaging takes no movement points?)
- 1 extra movement point
- attack and defense bonus (depending on the number of units in the army; with 3 units the bonus is 50% IIRC)
- healing on the move (like when you have battlefield medicine)
- free pillaging (not sure what this means - perhaps pillaging takes no movement points?)
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Okay, I like those improvements.zyxy said:
I've just not seen many armies in my C3C games so far.I sent only one Army to Kagoshima so I could send the other Army to Nanking. This made the Kagoshima Krushers a bit weak but insured that the Nanking Nukers would be stronger (healed).
China
I don't get a strong consenus on how to wage war with China. ControlFreak and zyxy are talking a bit above my head. Take Nanking? Take Hangchow? Take Beijing and give it away?
Or is the plan to have a phony war with China for 8 turns (attack no cities), build up and slam-dunk Egypt?
Or do we beat up on China until Turn 6, plan to make peace with Eastcrew on Turn 8 (or 9) and then move to attack Egypt on Turn 8?
I have family out-of-town lunch guests and don't have the time to solve this puzzle, although the last choice seems best to me. Don't mean to whine (to my mind this sounds like whining); I would rather be sure than just guess.
zyxy
Warmongering Fool
You are not whining, don't worry 
. And I think it would be good to discuss this further. Part of the confusion probably stems from the fact that there are several plans floating about.
In my opinion, the balance of power is our key lever on the strategic level. We are up against two power blocks on our home continent:
IMO our best strategy is to keep these groups fighting a stalemate against each other. This gives them the opportunity to waste their troops against each other instead of against us, and gives us the opportunity to carve out more and more of their empires for ourselves. For this to work, we need to maintain the balance of power as closely as possible.
On the overseas continent it looks like England is going down, but there is little we can do about that. Fortunately, America is quite strong and will probably hold out against the other three for a prolonged time. France and Scandinavia could well be in their GA and that would explain the imbalance, at least partially.
On our own continent, unfortunately our efforts have mainly been directed against the Southern Alliance - for all the good reasons, but still. As a result, India and Japan are all but gone, Korea is largely carved up by the Northern Alliance, and China is the only one that is still more or less intact - and currently propped up by a GA. Strategically, therefore, it makes sense to throw our weight against the Northern Alliance now, and try to reduce at least Egypt and Arabia to partially restore the balance. As long as the Chinese core is functional, they would be able to at least keep the Russians and Ottomans occupied for a while. If we think it is necessary I would even be prepared to gift them horses and iron so that they can use their riders on our behalf.
Considering all this, I would limit further operations against China to the town of Hangchow, for the purposes of controlling the horse resource and establishing a defensible border. I would let China keep Nanking, they can use it better than we can.
After taking Hangchow I would move most of the slow units (MDI, cats, trebs) up north, and just keep a few mostly fast units (horses) in the south for picking off landing parties and Chinese troops. The two armies should also head north.
It probably takes more than just two turns to move from Japan to Egypt, btw.
I think one army (plus the horses and MDI) for Kago is indeed enough. If you want to heal the other one, please do not move it into a flippery town
(MapStat gives a list).
I hope this helps...
. And I think it would be good to discuss this further. Part of the confusion probably stems from the fact that there are several plans floating about.In my opinion, the balance of power is our key lever on the strategic level. We are up against two power blocks on our home continent:
- The Northern Alliance of Egypt, Arabia, Russia and Ottomans
- The Southern Alliance of China, India, Japan and Korea,
- The Anglo Alliance of America and England
- The Euro Alliance of France, Germany and Scandinavia.
IMO our best strategy is to keep these groups fighting a stalemate against each other. This gives them the opportunity to waste their troops against each other instead of against us, and gives us the opportunity to carve out more and more of their empires for ourselves. For this to work, we need to maintain the balance of power as closely as possible.
On the overseas continent it looks like England is going down, but there is little we can do about that. Fortunately, America is quite strong and will probably hold out against the other three for a prolonged time. France and Scandinavia could well be in their GA and that would explain the imbalance, at least partially.
On our own continent, unfortunately our efforts have mainly been directed against the Southern Alliance - for all the good reasons, but still. As a result, India and Japan are all but gone, Korea is largely carved up by the Northern Alliance, and China is the only one that is still more or less intact - and currently propped up by a GA. Strategically, therefore, it makes sense to throw our weight against the Northern Alliance now, and try to reduce at least Egypt and Arabia to partially restore the balance. As long as the Chinese core is functional, they would be able to at least keep the Russians and Ottomans occupied for a while. If we think it is necessary I would even be prepared to gift them horses and iron so that they can use their riders on our behalf.
Considering all this, I would limit further operations against China to the town of Hangchow, for the purposes of controlling the horse resource and establishing a defensible border. I would let China keep Nanking, they can use it better than we can.
After taking Hangchow I would move most of the slow units (MDI, cats, trebs) up north, and just keep a few mostly fast units (horses) in the south for picking off landing parties and Chinese troops. The two armies should also head north.
It probably takes more than just two turns to move from Japan to Egypt, btw.
I think one army (plus the horses and MDI) for Kago is indeed enough. If you want to heal the other one, please do not move it into a flippery town
(MapStat gives a list).I hope this helps...
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
I agree with zyxy's synopsis!
Just talking about the future for informational purposes
We are preparing for a graceful exit from the East and want China to help protect our flank while we plunge deep through Egypt.
The most likely end to our Arab MA against China/Korea is someone from the East makes peace with Someone from the North which breaks the alliance. That way we can make peace with China (or Korea/India, whoever has the most to give).
If this doesn't happen, I think we will pay in happiness upkeep for the next 8 turns. We will not be ready to hit Egypt IMHO within 8 turns. The GA runs out in 2 turns and we will have more than 15 turns to go for Cavs. I think it might be suicide to attack Egypt without Cavs but I could be wrong.
If you think we're ready for Egypt in less than 8 turns, you could of course "cancel" the MA with the arabs by declaring war on Egypt and when the Arabs declare on us the deal is broken and we can settle for peace with China. I really think that war with Egypt in 8 turns is a bit suicidal without cavalry though.
Advice for the upcoming turnset
Just talking about the future for informational purposes
We are preparing for a graceful exit from the East and want China to help protect our flank while we plunge deep through Egypt.
The most likely end to our Arab MA against China/Korea is someone from the East makes peace with Someone from the North which breaks the alliance. That way we can make peace with China (or Korea/India, whoever has the most to give).
If this doesn't happen, I think we will pay in happiness upkeep for the next 8 turns. We will not be ready to hit Egypt IMHO within 8 turns. The GA runs out in 2 turns and we will have more than 15 turns to go for Cavs. I think it might be suicide to attack Egypt without Cavs but I could be wrong.
If you think we're ready for Egypt in less than 8 turns, you could of course "cancel" the MA with the arabs by declaring war on Egypt and when the Arabs declare on us the deal is broken and we can settle for peace with China. I really think that war with Egypt in 8 turns is a bit suicidal without cavalry though.
Advice for the upcoming turnset
JapanKagoshima has probably two pikes guarding it and maybe a longbow in the works. The army and a few horses should be plenty. I'm not sure we want to move the Mace away from Kyoto because it needs to recapture if a flip happens. It also needs to kill off landings. Hopefully no one lands more than one unit there in the next few turns. If that happens, well have to decide if we settle for peace with that civ, or let them take the town and then take it back with the Kagoshima task force.
I would bring both armies south just in case. It's better two have too much firepower than not enough. Bring as many horses as can keep up as well. They will eventually be sent to quell resistances and cover against landings.
China
There are two workers on a hill next to Keyz that should be moved back to finish the road to Keyz. As you suggest, most of the units there should also be pulled back The hotbed will be Teinsin. China wants that town back. They will hopefully not have anymore riders so a squad of Medis in the town will be able to defend against most attacks. As the longbows arrive, let them approach the town, bomb them with Trebs and then kill with Maces or horses. If possible, use horses so they can retreat out of the range of longbows. Chendu is vulnerable to LB attacks for the next few turns until borders expand. So make sure some horses or maces can reach the road toward Chendu.
In the north, we need two units each in AlanH and Anarchist (thinking that China will have at most 1 rider to spare). The new reinforcements can go to Hyangsan. They will take Tsingtao the turn we plan to declare peace. There are two settlers in Najran. They are for making a border with Egypt/Arabia, but I don't think that's going to be necessary.
Egypt
You probably won't deal with Egypt much. If we wait for Cavs before we hit Egypt, we should rip right through the southern Border with Egypt and could be at Memphis before they know what hit them. (It might be work some of our gold to embassy them so see what resistance we're likely to meet, but I'm guessing they've thrown all their units at the Korean/Chinese corridor. Your mission regarding them will be to collect enough galleys near the Northern Tip of our Pennisula so that a cav taskforce running out the three Egyptian towns on our continent will have a way to join the war in the north without backtracking all the way through our territory.
The Armys will be the key to Egypt. We must keep them stacked together with all our units hiding underneath. If we much strike out to kill nearby units, the armies split long enough to cover both positions, but then reunite as quickly as possible. We don't have enough units at the moment for much of a two pronged attack (except against the weaker towns on our continent).
I would bring both armies south just in case. It's better two have too much firepower than not enough. Bring as many horses as can keep up as well. They will eventually be sent to quell resistances and cover against landings.
China
There are two workers on a hill next to Keyz that should be moved back to finish the road to Keyz. As you suggest, most of the units there should also be pulled back The hotbed will be Teinsin. China wants that town back. They will hopefully not have anymore riders so a squad of Medis in the town will be able to defend against most attacks. As the longbows arrive, let them approach the town, bomb them with Trebs and then kill with Maces or horses. If possible, use horses so they can retreat out of the range of longbows. Chendu is vulnerable to LB attacks for the next few turns until borders expand. So make sure some horses or maces can reach the road toward Chendu.
In the north, we need two units each in AlanH and Anarchist (thinking that China will have at most 1 rider to spare). The new reinforcements can go to Hyangsan. They will take Tsingtao the turn we plan to declare peace. There are two settlers in Najran. They are for making a border with Egypt/Arabia, but I don't think that's going to be necessary.
Egypt
You probably won't deal with Egypt much. If we wait for Cavs before we hit Egypt, we should rip right through the southern Border with Egypt and could be at Memphis before they know what hit them. (It might be work some of our gold to embassy them so see what resistance we're likely to meet, but I'm guessing they've thrown all their units at the Korean/Chinese corridor. Your mission regarding them will be to collect enough galleys near the Northern Tip of our Pennisula so that a cav taskforce running out the three Egyptian towns on our continent will have a way to join the war in the north without backtracking all the way through our territory.
The Armys will be the key to Egypt. We must keep them stacked together with all our units hiding underneath. If we much strike out to kill nearby units, the armies split long enough to cover both positions, but then reunite as quickly as possible. We don't have enough units at the moment for much of a two pronged attack (except against the weaker towns on our continent).
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Thanks zyxy and ControlFreak for the advice. That has been helpful to see things spelled out.
I've played one turn and have two minor questions.
The galleys overseas: Are they in their proper blocking locations?
Where do we send new galleys and our current galley build up? Pearl Harbor seems to be a good place for now, but wanted to be sure.
No galleys were moved on this turn.
Gamepaly Update
No flips, but Korea and France both landed next to Kyoto. Korea with an rLongbow, France with a vArcher and an rSword. Korea landed first. Moved the vMace into Kyoto and fortified.
Expect to lose Kyoto to France. Korea moved first last turn, will attack first this turn and vMace will be wounded but win the battle, expect it to be 2/4. Archer and Sword will defeat it.
Armies and Impis moved for Kagoshima. Settler in place to build next turn.
Kagoshima first, then Kyoto.
Two units in Alan H and Anarchist. Diverted one trebuchet to Anarchist, will move it to Alan H and divert another trebuchet into Anarchist.
Chinese Longbow from Nanking killed the Impi NW of Chengdu. It cost a vHorse to kill that longbow. We have 1 victory in 3 battles.
No real action, just a lot of worry over what to do with Kyoto. Flip risk is small (0.375%, I think). Could not keep the city if we attacked so moved into Kyoto and force them to attack. Not good odds, but they may chicken out.
I've played one turn and have two minor questions.
The galleys overseas: Are they in their proper blocking locations?
Where do we send new galleys and our current galley build up? Pearl Harbor seems to be a good place for now, but wanted to be sure.
No galleys were moved on this turn.
Gamepaly Update
No flips, but Korea and France both landed next to Kyoto. Korea with an rLongbow, France with a vArcher and an rSword. Korea landed first. Moved the vMace into Kyoto and fortified.
Expect to lose Kyoto to France. Korea moved first last turn, will attack first this turn and vMace will be wounded but win the battle, expect it to be 2/4. Archer and Sword will defeat it.
Armies and Impis moved for Kagoshima. Settler in place to build next turn.
Kagoshima first, then Kyoto.
Two units in Alan H and Anarchist. Diverted one trebuchet to Anarchist, will move it to Alan H and divert another trebuchet into Anarchist.
Chinese Longbow from Nanking killed the Impi NW of Chengdu. It cost a vHorse to kill that longbow. We have 1 victory in 3 battles.
No real action, just a lot of worry over what to do with Kyoto. Flip risk is small (0.375%, I think). Could not keep the city if we attacked so moved into Kyoto and force them to attack. Not good odds, but they may chicken out.
zyxy
Warmongering Fool
Attack Korea with the mace, and make peace with the euro alliance? Germany will sign for WM and 40 - 50 gold, and that will drag France along.
This should be a warning that we need more troops in this area. Especially if the AI's like to land here. Unfortunately our troop numbers are extremely low.
Btw, a mace defending against a longbow is bad odds probably. Attacking is much better usually.
--------
Some of the civs have Navigation, so a galley block will not really work.
--------
When CF mentioned 2 units each in Anarchist and AlanH, he meant two units that have positive defense value, so that we can always withstand one attack! A treb will just get captured!
--------
The number of troops we keep losing to silly longbows is just amazing (You're not at fault btw, there is not much you can do on an inherited turn). Just for completeness, the drill is: keep our troops out of longbow range (for example, one tile inside our own borders), except when we attack a town - it's unavoidable to get in range then. This will force the longbows to enter our terrain without attacking, and usually without cover. This makes them easy picks for our horses and MDI. Always bombard first whenever possible - we have oversized stacks of arty, so use it!
--------
Please don't forget to look after our town management. Our settler factory at Babwe is out of order again and Headquarterz is building maces at 15 spt (with that spt, horses are of course more efficient) - I didn't check a lot of towns, so there could easily be more.
This should be a warning that we need more troops in this area. Especially if the AI's like to land here. Unfortunately our troop numbers are extremely low.
Btw, a mace defending against a longbow is bad odds probably. Attacking is much better usually.
--------
Some of the civs have Navigation, so a galley block will not really work.
--------
When CF mentioned 2 units each in Anarchist and AlanH, he meant two units that have positive defense value, so that we can always withstand one attack! A treb will just get captured!
--------
The number of troops we keep losing to silly longbows is just amazing (You're not at fault btw, there is not much you can do on an inherited turn). Just for completeness, the drill is: keep our troops out of longbow range (for example, one tile inside our own borders), except when we attack a town - it's unavoidable to get in range then. This will force the longbows to enter our terrain without attacking, and usually without cover. This makes them easy picks for our horses and MDI. Always bombard first whenever possible - we have oversized stacks of arty, so use it!
--------
Please don't forget to look after our town management. Our settler factory at Babwe is out of order again and Headquarterz is building maces at 15 spt (with that spt, horses are of course more efficient) - I didn't check a lot of towns, so there could easily be more.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Okay, we can still make peace with Germany for some gold and then attack the Korean unit.zyxy said:
Moved a horse into Alan H and Anarchist to increase their unit count; the trebs are just for bonus pounding.
I checked the towns for crankiness (Eaztbay shut down this turn, I caught the other two) but nothing more. Will scroll through again looking at productivity.
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
I second zyxy's lament about longbows.
Keeping all of our units one tile from our borders will mean the longbows have to enter our territory without hitting anything in the process. Then we can counterattack and destroy them. The procedure should be to bomb them to 1HP, then kill the with a horse who can move back into town to repeat the process. If a Mace must be used, then he becomes vulnerable for the next turn. It is possible to move the trebs to the mace and try to bombard the roads around the mace so the longbows can counter, but it's probably not worth the loss of roads.
Kyoto
Since it sounds like you've moved into Kyoto already I'm not sure you have moves left. If you can, kill the Korean longbow and settle with Germany for money or with Vikings for Chemistry (france and Germany already have it) or money. That should strand the French on our island and give us a way to trigger them into declaring on us giving us nice war happiness. (Just keep an eye on them because if they end up near an undefended town, they will take it.)
I don't know if it's too late, but if you move one of the other settlers SW onto the forest, it can join the Tokyo roads with Kyoto's roads in such a way that the army and horsemen can reach Kyoto next turn if needed. If not, no biggy.
If for whatever reason Kyoto does get captured or flips, it is a bigger priority than Kagoshima. Especially if it becomes French, they have the ability to rush units and it would be tougher to take back the longer it stays in their hands.
Galleys
I agree that the time for blockades is past. I would try to form a fleet of galleys and move them to the point of land between our area and Egypt. I envision that a small group of cavs will take the three Egyptian towns on our side of the sea and then board boats to head to Thebes/Memphis. There are some landing zones that are on Mountains and if needed we can steal their iron or saltpeter from the coast.
Keeping all of our units one tile from our borders will mean the longbows have to enter our territory without hitting anything in the process. Then we can counterattack and destroy them. The procedure should be to bomb them to 1HP, then kill the with a horse who can move back into town to repeat the process. If a Mace must be used, then he becomes vulnerable for the next turn. It is possible to move the trebs to the mace and try to bombard the roads around the mace so the longbows can counter, but it's probably not worth the loss of roads.Kyoto
Since it sounds like you've moved into Kyoto already I'm not sure you have moves left. If you can, kill the Korean longbow and settle with Germany for money or with Vikings for Chemistry (france and Germany already have it) or money. That should strand the French on our island and give us a way to trigger them into declaring on us giving us nice war happiness. (Just keep an eye on them because if they end up near an undefended town, they will take it.)
I don't know if it's too late, but if you move one of the other settlers SW onto the forest, it can join the Tokyo roads with Kyoto's roads in such a way that the army and horsemen can reach Kyoto next turn if needed. If not, no biggy.
If for whatever reason Kyoto does get captured or flips, it is a bigger priority than Kagoshima. Especially if it becomes French, they have the ability to rush units and it would be tougher to take back the longer it stays in their hands.
Galleys
I agree that the time for blockades is past. I would try to form a fleet of galleys and move them to the point of land between our area and Egypt. I envision that a small group of cavs will take the three Egyptian towns on our side of the sea and then board boats to head to Thebes/Memphis. There are some landing zones that are on Mountains and if needed we can steal their iron or saltpeter from the coast.
zyxy
Warmongering Fool
ControlFreak said:
In the 500AD save Chemistry is still a monopoly. Is there a newer save that I am missing somehow?
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
The vMace was on a road; he can still attack. But if he attacks and wins, then Kyoto is undefended for one turn. Is that too big a temptation for the French?ControlFreak said:
Missed that one, have a settler in place that will complete roads from Tientsin to Toyko, but not Toyko to Kyoto.
Okay, I'll keep an eye on that.
I was considering exploring the coastline with some galleys. Bad idea?
No, I did not post a save of the 510 AD turn.zyxy said:
zyxy
Warmongering Fool
Probably not if you make peace now.CommandoBob said:
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
That's a typo AND a mistake. I originally typed Gunpowder because I had mistakenly opened 450AD Save. Then double checking through my post (with the 500AD save open) I realized that the Vikings have gunpowder and changed my post to chemistry. I didn't realize that no one has chemistry. Definitely don't use Chemistry to settle for peace!zyxy said:In the 500AD save Chemistry is still a monopoly. Is there a newer save that I am missing somehow?
Regarding France, I'm wondering if we just want to let them take the town and then take it back with the armies/horses the next turn. As long as it's only in their hands for the first turn, they shouldn't be able to rush anything because of the resistance. It should be easy to take back as long as our combat settler does his job and the armies haven't moved onto the forest tile yet. I leave it up to CB's judgement.
The problem with letting them take the town is that it will start giving us WW from that war too. But it shouldn't be much in any case, so maybe it is the better option. As long as they don't raze it, we definitely don't want to lose the ToA!
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Kyoto will not auto-raze due to the ToA. France could decide to raze it; not seen enough AIs capturing Wonders to know what they do. Like humans, I think they would keep the wonder.
But that does mean a slight risk that France will raze Kyoto. Is that slight risk (and the loss of empire wide culture induced border expansion) worth it?
I tend to be cautious in things like this, and I would rather make peace with Germany, which forces peace with France, than let this Wonder leave our hands.
But that does mean a slight risk that France will raze Kyoto. Is that slight risk (and the loss of empire wide culture induced border expansion) worth it?
I tend to be cautious in things like this, and I would rather make peace with Germany, which forces peace with France, than let this Wonder leave our hands.
zyxy
Warmongering Fool
Is there a good reason not to make peace with France? The 50 gold or so we would pay to Germany doesn't bother me much.
If we are afraid the overseas war will stop, then we can always sign an alliance with the French and/or Germans and/or Vikings against America and/or England - we are very powerful, so perhaps we can even get our money back that way. Of course this ties our own hands for 20 turns as well, so it may not be too wise, but it is an option...
If we are afraid the overseas war will stop, then we can always sign an alliance with the French and/or Germans and/or Vikings against America and/or England - we are very powerful, so perhaps we can even get our money back that way. Of course this ties our own hands for 20 turns as well, so it may not be too wise, but it is an option...
Sorry to intrude on your game, but just wanted to let everyone know that the ![[civ4]](/images/smilies/civ4.gif "Civ4 [civ4]")
SGOTM3 sign-up is posted. Team Smurkz is calling!
SGOTM3 sign-up is posted. Team Smurkz is calling!
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
[Preflight]
Tienstin rLongbow -> barracks, 20 turns.
[IBT 500 AD]
Chinese LB kills Impi NW of Chengdu. (0 of 1)
DarkBlue and Pink units land near Kyoto.
Pearl Harbor vHorse -> vHorse, 5 turns.
Eaztbay riots, forgot to change; hire a clown.
Scroll through the cities:
Blue like Smurkz: hire a geek, zero growth, vMace in 2 not 1.
Umfolozi: hire two clowns, city will starve, trebuchet still in 2.
Karachi trebuchet -> trebuchet, 30 turns.
Americans are building Copernicus' Observatory.
01 510 AD
Korea landed an rLongbow 1E of Kyoto.
France landed a vArcher and rSword 1SE of Kyoto.
Deal with them later.
Impis near Kagoshima move 1SW.
Move both Armies 2SE.
Move a settler onto the hills around Kagoshima.
Hire a clown in Surf Side Smurkz.
Kyoto Area 510 AD
On Kyoto, 1 vMace vs. 1 rLongbow, 1 vArcher and 1 rSword. Bad odds.
Korea landed first, so they would attack first. Mace would take damage, but survive.
France would then attack a wounded Mace and win with the sword. And we lose Kyoto.
I don't see how we keep Kyoto with just one unit.
If the vMace attacks, it cannot defend.
Don't think that Kyoto will flip (0.371% per MapStat).
Move vMace into Kyoto and fortify.
Tientsin needs only 3 units to become flip-proof, down from 7.
Move 2nd units into Alan H and Anarchist.
Minor Skirmishes
vHorse vs. Chinese eLongbow 3/5, redline the Longbow but lose (0 of 2).
vHorse vs. Chinese eLongbow 1/5, Horse wins and retreats back inside Zulu borders (1 of 3).
Move eHorse from Tientsin to join that victorious vHorse, 1 NW of Chengdu.
Tientsin resistance is over. Whip a barracks, 1 citizen for 19 gold.
Leave all galleys in place.
Will build 2 cities next turn.
Discussion of Kyoto. Plan is to make peace with Germany, forcing peace onto France, then attack the Korean.
Need to reexamine each city for productivity.
Germany wants 100 gold for peace. Seems steep, but it will prevent France from getting Kyoto.
Germany has 1153 gold in the bank, but won't cut us any slack. Arrogant Bismarck.
Make the deal.
We get peace with Germany and France.
vMace vs. Korean rLongbow, Mace wins with 1HP of damage (2 of 4).
Babwe: work the irrigate grassland instead of the gems, grow in 1, settler in 2 (maybe one with a new citizen upon growth).
SHAW: swap mined BG with Eaztbay, work it instead of the goats, still grow in 3, vMace in 1.
South Smurkz: work the iron, not the mined hill; zero growth, 15 spt net (Horses in 2 turns).
[IBT]
No attacks.
Galley sets sail from Kagoshima.
SmurkzBabwe settler -> settler, 4 turns.
Shaka-Hiz-Armz-Wide vMace -> vMace, 4 turns.
Sheepish Smurkz trebuchet -> trebuchet, 30 turns.
Blue like Smurkz vMace -> vMace, 4 turns.
Najran trebuchet -> trebuchet, 30 turns.
South Smurkz vHorse -> vHorse, 2 turns.
Headquartez vMace -> vMace, 3 turns.
Bad News
Chengdu flips to China.
Tientsin barracks -> vMusket, 60 turns.
Umfolzi trebuchet -> trebuchet, 8 turns.
Smurkybanago vGalley -> vGalley, 5 turns.
Anarchist Smurkz trebuchet -> trebuchet, 30 turns.
Germans are building Magellan's Voyage.
So are the French.
Egyptian rMusket and Ottoman rSpear appear around Najran. We are at peace with both.
02 520 AD
Resisting Cities
Osaka (3) 2 resisters, 1 geek, zero growth, vMusket in 32.
Toyko (5) 2 resisters, 3 geek, city will starve, vLongbow in 37.
Found Hilly Billy Smurkz 2SE of Tientsin, will connect the roads between Tientsin and Toyko.
Hilly Billy hires a geek, has zero growth and builds a trebuchet in 30 turns.
Found Zayonara Japan 2W of Kagoshima.
Zayorana hires a geek, has zero growh and builds a trebuchet in 30 turns.
2 Horse 1NW of Chengdu, which is defended by an rMusket.
Move both 1W onto horse resource that is now inside Chinese borders and fortify. Do not attack.
Reinforce with a third horse.
Move vMace back into Kyoto.
Armies gather near Kagoshima.
Move a horse intended for Kagoshima into Zayonara Japan to keep the French at bay.
Gather units in Tientsin.
Fire a geek in Bombay (2), city now at zero growth.
Hire a geek in Blue like Smurkz (5), city now at zero growth but will not riot.
Change clown in Umfolozi (5) to geek.
[IBT]
Japan lands a vLongbow near Kyoto.
Aw, Shucks!
Korea destroyed by Egypt.
Oh, no
Our Golden Age is over.
Shaka-Hiz-Armz-Wide riots. Golden Age ending, did not see this in MapStat.
Shaka-Hiz-Armz-Wide hire a clown.
(Riot prevention mode)
Pearl Harbor, switch geek to clown.
Eaztbay, hire 2nd clown, shortage of 2 food, vHorse still in 1.
Smurkz Pinky, hire a clown, zero growth, vHorse in 4.
Blue like Smurkz, geek -> clown.
South Smurkz, iron -> clown, zero growth, vHorse in 5.
Headquartez, hire a clown, zero growth, vMace in 5.
Umfolozi, geek -> clown, grows in 19.
Smurkybanago, hire a clown, zero growth.
Uncle Smurkz, hire a geek, zero growth, vMace in 6.
Madras trebuchet -> trebuchet, 30 turns.
Eaztbay, vHorse -> vHorse, 5 turns.
SmurkziSwazi trebuchet -> trebuchet, 30 turns.
Germans are building JS Bach's Cathedral.
So are the Egyptians.
Only one city is shut down.
Keep luxuries at 30%, research at 60%. We learn Metallurgy in 3, -24 gpt.
We can survive at this rate for two turns. In order to learn Metallurgy in 3, will need to switch some geeks to beancounters on the last turn.
03 530 AD
Resisting Cities
Osaka (3) 2 resisters, 1 geek, zero growth, vMusket in 31.
Toyko (4) 2 resisters, 2 geeks, city will starve, vLongbow in 36.
Battle for Kagoshima
First Mace Army (9/13) vs. rPike, Army wins (3 of 5).
First Mace Army (9/13) vs. rPike, Army wins (4 of 6).
Good News
And Kagoshima becomes Smurkz and we gain a slave.
Kagoshima grows in 20, vMusket in 60.
Sorry, Charlie
Japan is gone.
Move Impis and Army into Zayonara.
Minor Skirmish near Hangchow
eMace vs. rLongbow, Mace wins but does not promote (5 of 7).
Move units up to Hangchow.
[IBT]
Surf Side Smurkz trebuchet -> trebuchet, 10 turns.
Vikings are building JS Bach's Cathedral.
So are the French.
04 540 AD
Resisting Cities
Osaka (3) 2 resisters, 1 geek, zero growth, vMusket in 30.
Toyko (3) 1 resister, 1 geek, city will starve, vLongbow in 35.
Pounding of Hangchow
1HP on rMusekt, 2HP on rMusket, 1HP on rSpear.
Battle of Hangchow
eMace vs. rSpear 2/3, Mace wins (6 of 8).
eMace vs. rMusket 1/3, Mace wins (7 of 9).
eMace vs. rLongbow, Mace wins (8 of 10).
Good News
And Hangchow is now Zulu, along with 2 more slaves.
Hangchow (5) has three resisters. Hire two beancounters, city will starve, trebuchet in 30.
Found Tokyo-Kyoto Shuttle on the forest 2NW of Kyoto.
Hire a beancounter, zero growth, trebuchet in 30.
Hired and fired geeks and beancounters to get Metallurgy in 2 and have a positive cash flow.
Sink an English Galley.
Move Amry, vHorse, Impi, trebuchets and catapults to 1S of Chengdu.
[IBT]
Chinese Longbow kills Ottoman Spear.
Hangchow riots. Hire two more beancounters.
Zunguin trebuchet -> trebuchet, 15 turns.
Aunty Smurkzy trebuchet -> trebuchet, 15 turns.
Revolting Smurkz vGalley -> vGalley, 15 turns.
Vikings are building Copernicus' Observatory.
Ottomans are building JS Bach's Cathedral.
05 550 AD
Resisting Cities
Osaka (3) 2 resisters, 1 geek, zero growth, vMusket in 29.
Toyko (2) 1 resister, 1 geek, zero growth, vLongbow in 34.
Hangchow (5) 1 resister, 2 beancounters, 2 geeks, trebuchet in 9999.
We just barely learn Metallurgy in 1, after changing the new beancounters in Hangchow to geeks.
Change the remaining beancounters in Hangchow to geeks, and do the same in Karachi and Hyangsan.
We learn Metallurgy in 1 turn at -1 gpt.
Pounding of Chengdu
1HP on rMusket, 2nd HP on rMusket, no more defenders.
2nd Battle of Chengdu
eHorse vs. rMusket 1/3, Horse wins flawlessly (9 of 11).
Good News
Chengdu is again Smurkz.
Chengdu (3) has 1 clown, zero growth and builds a trebuchet in 30.
The horse resource near Chengdu is again in Smurkz control.
Minor Skirmishes
eSword vs. vLongbow, Sword is redlined but wins (10 of 12).
Hangchow is a big flip risk, from 0.204 to 7.099% according to MapStat. The victorious sword was in Hangchow, vacate city now.
Mace in city joins the sword, both joined by a horse.
Move 2 vHorse into Oska, hope to quell resistance.
[IBT]
Post save for discussion.
Just realized that I did not offer Germany our WM when trading for peace. Argh!
And the save is >>HERE<<.
Tienstin rLongbow -> barracks, 20 turns.
[IBT 500 AD]
Chinese LB kills Impi NW of Chengdu. (0 of 1)
DarkBlue and Pink units land near Kyoto.
Pearl Harbor vHorse -> vHorse, 5 turns.
Eaztbay riots, forgot to change; hire a clown.
Scroll through the cities:
Blue like Smurkz: hire a geek, zero growth, vMace in 2 not 1.
Umfolozi: hire two clowns, city will starve, trebuchet still in 2.
Karachi trebuchet -> trebuchet, 30 turns.
Americans are building Copernicus' Observatory.
01 510 AD
Korea landed an rLongbow 1E of Kyoto.
France landed a vArcher and rSword 1SE of Kyoto.
Deal with them later.
Impis near Kagoshima move 1SW.
Move both Armies 2SE.
Move a settler onto the hills around Kagoshima.
Hire a clown in Surf Side Smurkz.
Kyoto Area 510 AD
On Kyoto, 1 vMace vs. 1 rLongbow, 1 vArcher and 1 rSword. Bad odds.
Korea landed first, so they would attack first. Mace would take damage, but survive.
France would then attack a wounded Mace and win with the sword. And we lose Kyoto.
I don't see how we keep Kyoto with just one unit.
If the vMace attacks, it cannot defend.
Don't think that Kyoto will flip (0.371% per MapStat).
Move vMace into Kyoto and fortify.
Tientsin needs only 3 units to become flip-proof, down from 7.
Move 2nd units into Alan H and Anarchist.
Minor Skirmishes
vHorse vs. Chinese eLongbow 3/5, redline the Longbow but lose (0 of 2).
vHorse vs. Chinese eLongbow 1/5, Horse wins and retreats back inside Zulu borders (1 of 3).
Move eHorse from Tientsin to join that victorious vHorse, 1 NW of Chengdu.
Tientsin resistance is over. Whip a barracks, 1 citizen for 19 gold.
Leave all galleys in place.
Will build 2 cities next turn.
Discussion of Kyoto. Plan is to make peace with Germany, forcing peace onto France, then attack the Korean.
Need to reexamine each city for productivity.
Germany wants 100 gold for peace. Seems steep, but it will prevent France from getting Kyoto.
Germany has 1153 gold in the bank, but won't cut us any slack. Arrogant Bismarck.
Make the deal.
We get peace with Germany and France.
vMace vs. Korean rLongbow, Mace wins with 1HP of damage (2 of 4).
Babwe: work the irrigate grassland instead of the gems, grow in 1, settler in 2 (maybe one with a new citizen upon growth).
SHAW: swap mined BG with Eaztbay, work it instead of the goats, still grow in 3, vMace in 1.
South Smurkz: work the iron, not the mined hill; zero growth, 15 spt net (Horses in 2 turns).
No attacks.
Galley sets sail from Kagoshima.
SmurkzBabwe settler -> settler, 4 turns.
Shaka-Hiz-Armz-Wide vMace -> vMace, 4 turns.
Sheepish Smurkz trebuchet -> trebuchet, 30 turns.
Blue like Smurkz vMace -> vMace, 4 turns.
Najran trebuchet -> trebuchet, 30 turns.
South Smurkz vHorse -> vHorse, 2 turns.
Headquartez vMace -> vMace, 3 turns.
Bad News
Chengdu flips to China.
Tientsin barracks -> vMusket, 60 turns.
Umfolzi trebuchet -> trebuchet, 8 turns.
Smurkybanago vGalley -> vGalley, 5 turns.
Anarchist Smurkz trebuchet -> trebuchet, 30 turns.
Germans are building Magellan's Voyage.
So are the French.
Egyptian rMusket and Ottoman rSpear appear around Najran. We are at peace with both.
02 520 AD
Resisting Cities
Osaka (3) 2 resisters, 1 geek, zero growth, vMusket in 32.
Toyko (5) 2 resisters, 3 geek, city will starve, vLongbow in 37.
Found Hilly Billy Smurkz 2SE of Tientsin, will connect the roads between Tientsin and Toyko.
Hilly Billy hires a geek, has zero growth and builds a trebuchet in 30 turns.
Found Zayonara Japan 2W of Kagoshima.
Zayorana hires a geek, has zero growh and builds a trebuchet in 30 turns.
2 Horse 1NW of Chengdu, which is defended by an rMusket.
Move both 1W onto horse resource that is now inside Chinese borders and fortify. Do not attack.
Reinforce with a third horse.
Move vMace back into Kyoto.
Armies gather near Kagoshima.
Move a horse intended for Kagoshima into Zayonara Japan to keep the French at bay.
Gather units in Tientsin.
Fire a geek in Bombay (2), city now at zero growth.
Hire a geek in Blue like Smurkz (5), city now at zero growth but will not riot.
Change clown in Umfolozi (5) to geek.
Japan lands a vLongbow near Kyoto.
Aw, Shucks!
Korea destroyed by Egypt.
Oh, no
Our Golden Age is over.
Shaka-Hiz-Armz-Wide riots. Golden Age ending, did not see this in MapStat.
Shaka-Hiz-Armz-Wide hire a clown.
(Riot prevention mode)
Pearl Harbor, switch geek to clown.
Eaztbay, hire 2nd clown, shortage of 2 food, vHorse still in 1.
Smurkz Pinky, hire a clown, zero growth, vHorse in 4.
Blue like Smurkz, geek -> clown.
South Smurkz, iron -> clown, zero growth, vHorse in 5.
Headquartez, hire a clown, zero growth, vMace in 5.
Umfolozi, geek -> clown, grows in 19.
Smurkybanago, hire a clown, zero growth.
Uncle Smurkz, hire a geek, zero growth, vMace in 6.
Madras trebuchet -> trebuchet, 30 turns.
Eaztbay, vHorse -> vHorse, 5 turns.
SmurkziSwazi trebuchet -> trebuchet, 30 turns.
Germans are building JS Bach's Cathedral.
So are the Egyptians.
Only one city is shut down.
Keep luxuries at 30%, research at 60%. We learn Metallurgy in 3, -24 gpt.
We can survive at this rate for two turns. In order to learn Metallurgy in 3, will need to switch some geeks to beancounters on the last turn.
03 530 AD
Resisting Cities
Osaka (3) 2 resisters, 1 geek, zero growth, vMusket in 31.
Toyko (4) 2 resisters, 2 geeks, city will starve, vLongbow in 36.
Battle for Kagoshima
First Mace Army (9/13) vs. rPike, Army wins (3 of 5).
First Mace Army (9/13) vs. rPike, Army wins (4 of 6).
Good News
And Kagoshima becomes Smurkz and we gain a slave.
Kagoshima grows in 20, vMusket in 60.
Sorry, Charlie
Japan is gone.
Move Impis and Army into Zayonara.
Minor Skirmish near Hangchow
eMace vs. rLongbow, Mace wins but does not promote (5 of 7).
Move units up to Hangchow.
Surf Side Smurkz trebuchet -> trebuchet, 10 turns.
Vikings are building JS Bach's Cathedral.
So are the French.
04 540 AD
Resisting Cities
Osaka (3) 2 resisters, 1 geek, zero growth, vMusket in 30.
Toyko (3) 1 resister, 1 geek, city will starve, vLongbow in 35.
Pounding of Hangchow
1HP on rMusekt, 2HP on rMusket, 1HP on rSpear.
Battle of Hangchow
eMace vs. rSpear 2/3, Mace wins (6 of 8).
eMace vs. rMusket 1/3, Mace wins (7 of 9).
eMace vs. rLongbow, Mace wins (8 of 10).
Good News
And Hangchow is now Zulu, along with 2 more slaves.
Hangchow (5) has three resisters. Hire two beancounters, city will starve, trebuchet in 30.
Found Tokyo-Kyoto Shuttle on the forest 2NW of Kyoto.
Hire a beancounter, zero growth, trebuchet in 30.
Hired and fired geeks and beancounters to get Metallurgy in 2 and have a positive cash flow.
Sink an English Galley.
Move Amry, vHorse, Impi, trebuchets and catapults to 1S of Chengdu.
Chinese Longbow kills Ottoman Spear.
Hangchow riots. Hire two more beancounters.
Zunguin trebuchet -> trebuchet, 15 turns.
Aunty Smurkzy trebuchet -> trebuchet, 15 turns.
Revolting Smurkz vGalley -> vGalley, 15 turns.
Vikings are building Copernicus' Observatory.
Ottomans are building JS Bach's Cathedral.
05 550 AD
Resisting Cities
Osaka (3) 2 resisters, 1 geek, zero growth, vMusket in 29.
Toyko (2) 1 resister, 1 geek, zero growth, vLongbow in 34.
Hangchow (5) 1 resister, 2 beancounters, 2 geeks, trebuchet in 9999.
We just barely learn Metallurgy in 1, after changing the new beancounters in Hangchow to geeks.
Change the remaining beancounters in Hangchow to geeks, and do the same in Karachi and Hyangsan.
We learn Metallurgy in 1 turn at -1 gpt.
Pounding of Chengdu
1HP on rMusket, 2nd HP on rMusket, no more defenders.
2nd Battle of Chengdu
eHorse vs. rMusket 1/3, Horse wins flawlessly (9 of 11).
Good News
Chengdu is again Smurkz.
Chengdu (3) has 1 clown, zero growth and builds a trebuchet in 30.
The horse resource near Chengdu is again in Smurkz control.
Minor Skirmishes
eSword vs. vLongbow, Sword is redlined but wins (10 of 12).
Hangchow is a big flip risk, from 0.204 to 7.099% according to MapStat. The victorious sword was in Hangchow, vacate city now.
Mace in city joins the sword, both joined by a horse.
Move 2 vHorse into Oska, hope to quell resistance.
Post save for discussion.
Just realized that I did not offer Germany our WM when trading for peace. Argh!
And the save is >>HERE<<.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Don't plan on any more conquests.
Do plan to build some more small cities across the plains of Japan and India. We need the science now to get Military Tradition and later we will need the cash.
Will begin to move Armies, trebs, catapults, some horses and maces into Hyangsan. Will keep some elites around the Chinese border to pick off any strays and stragglers. May even try leaving a city undefended so we can go leader hunting. We need more than two armies.
Left some military in our core.
Galleys are moving to the Pearl Harbor area to prepare for moving across into Egypt later.
Our cash is tight and that is partly my fault. I forgot to include our WM on the peace agreement with Germany. And now Egypt has the greatest gold.
Earlier MapStat showed us with 8 turns left on a deal with Egypt, in 500 AD. Now in 550 AD it shows we have 5 turns left on a deal with Egypt, even though we have played 5 more turns since then.
I think the exciting turns are over for this turnset. The rest will be just MM and moving units towards Hyangsan.
Do plan to build some more small cities across the plains of Japan and India. We need the science now to get Military Tradition and later we will need the cash.
Will begin to move Armies, trebs, catapults, some horses and maces into Hyangsan. Will keep some elites around the Chinese border to pick off any strays and stragglers. May even try leaving a city undefended so we can go leader hunting. We need more than two armies.
Left some military in our core.
Galleys are moving to the Pearl Harbor area to prepare for moving across into Egypt later.
Our cash is tight and that is partly my fault. I forgot to include our WM on the peace agreement with Germany. And now Egypt has the greatest gold.
Earlier MapStat showed us with 8 turns left on a deal with Egypt, in 500 AD. Now in 550 AD it shows we have 5 turns left on a deal with Egypt, even though we have played 5 more turns since then.
I think the exciting turns are over for this turnset. The rest will be just MM and moving units towards Hyangsan.
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
Well done CB!
Also, it was an excellent move to post the save for discussion. This is a key turning point and there should be lots of feedback. Here's my two cents. (more like two dollars)
China
The death of Korea has cancelled our MA with the Arabs! We can settle for peace with China immediately. The biggest risk to that will be potential flips of Chendu and Hangchow without being about to retake the cities. Since resistance is over, I recommend pop rushing some things (trebs/pikes or even regular horses). That should reduce the flip risk enough to suppress with unit control in Chendu. Hangchow may never go that low because it's so close to their new capitol. If it flips, we can just chalk it up as a loss.
After settling for peace we should see if they have anything to trade for our horses and iron. We now want them to have riders for their fight against Egypt.
Even if they have nothing, we should gift them the resources.
Old Japan
We need one more town settled in the SW tundra on the only non-zulu tile there. The settler in Tokyo should walk there. The sooner this is done, the better off in terms of using the TofA to expand the border. (BTW, if we lose the TOA, the border expansions still stay. Just the temple goes away and no MORE culture is added.)
Arabs/Egypt
We are going to move our Medi's to Najran. The horses still need to go to Hyangsan for upgrading in the barracks. I still think we wait for MT and at least some cav upgrades before we attack Egypt. The caveat to this will be if Egypt settle for peace with China. If they settle for peace, we will need to declare against them and MA China against them. (I'm not sure we have enough buying power to do that.)
BTW, if we are serious about the resource disconnection thing, we could sever the road S of Hyangsan and sell the harbors on the Japan side. That would let us build horses in the core, move them to Hyangsan and upgrade them there. The disadvantage is it might prevent us from selling resources to China. Think about the logistics of that, but it might be worth pursuing one Seoul and Leo's are in our possession.
Our initial attack will be up the coastline through their spicetown to Memphis. It's probably worth sending some cavs through China (ROP?) as a strikeforce to take Seoul for the Cheaper upgrades. It's going to be hard to hold though because Ottomans/Russia/Arabs and Egypt have ALL their units over their.
Empire Building
There are lots of MM opportunities. I'm guessing that we will go back to having happy size six towns (four lux, 1 temple) once we settle for peace. Our big sheild makers should be South, SHAW and Headquarters which should all make 10spt>horses and should get first pick of the tiles. South can be put on starvation to get the 12s needed for its current build and then brought back to 0fpt, 10spt.
The farthest SE town below the FP is totally corrupt and should be working the irrigated plain, a coast and a specialist. Then start at Headquarters and work your way out. If you can load up a town to get 10spt great. If not, give it 8spt (Maces) and shift tiles to the next least corrupt town. Repeat the process all the way out to the perimeters of our Mainland.
Fix the settler factories. Babwe needs to delay and get bigger probably by building a horse. Gateway has missed it's growth cycle.
More later.
Also, it was an excellent move to post the save for discussion. This is a key turning point and there should be lots of feedback. Here's my two cents. (more like two dollars)
China
The death of Korea has cancelled our MA with the Arabs! We can settle for peace with China immediately. The biggest risk to that will be potential flips of Chendu and Hangchow without being about to retake the cities. Since resistance is over, I recommend pop rushing some things (trebs/pikes or even regular horses). That should reduce the flip risk enough to suppress with unit control in Chendu. Hangchow may never go that low because it's so close to their new capitol. If it flips, we can just chalk it up as a loss.
After settling for peace we should see if they have anything to trade for our horses and iron. We now want them to have riders for their fight against Egypt.
Even if they have nothing, we should gift them the resources.Old Japan
We need one more town settled in the SW tundra on the only non-zulu tile there. The settler in Tokyo should walk there. The sooner this is done, the better off in terms of using the TofA to expand the border. (BTW, if we lose the TOA, the border expansions still stay. Just the temple goes away and no MORE culture is added.)
Arabs/Egypt
We are going to move our Medi's to Najran. The horses still need to go to Hyangsan for upgrading in the barracks. I still think we wait for MT and at least some cav upgrades before we attack Egypt. The caveat to this will be if Egypt settle for peace with China. If they settle for peace, we will need to declare against them and MA China against them. (I'm not sure we have enough buying power to do that.)
BTW, if we are serious about the resource disconnection thing, we could sever the road S of Hyangsan and sell the harbors on the Japan side. That would let us build horses in the core, move them to Hyangsan and upgrade them there. The disadvantage is it might prevent us from selling resources to China. Think about the logistics of that, but it might be worth pursuing one Seoul and Leo's are in our possession.
Our initial attack will be up the coastline through their spicetown to Memphis. It's probably worth sending some cavs through China (ROP?) as a strikeforce to take Seoul for the Cheaper upgrades. It's going to be hard to hold though because Ottomans/Russia/Arabs and Egypt have ALL their units over their.
Empire Building
There are lots of MM opportunities. I'm guessing that we will go back to having happy size six towns (four lux, 1 temple) once we settle for peace. Our big sheild makers should be South, SHAW and Headquarters which should all make 10spt>horses and should get first pick of the tiles. South can be put on starvation to get the 12s needed for its current build and then brought back to 0fpt, 10spt.
The farthest SE town below the FP is totally corrupt and should be working the irrigated plain, a coast and a specialist. Then start at Headquarters and work your way out. If you can load up a town to get 10spt great. If not, give it 8spt (Maces) and shift tiles to the next least corrupt town. Repeat the process all the way out to the perimeters of our Mainland.
Fix the settler factories. Babwe needs to delay and get bigger probably by building a horse. Gateway has missed it's growth cycle.
More later.
Similar threads
