SGOTM 11 - Unusual Suspects

kcd_swede · May 17, 2010

classical_hero said:
I am back. I will have a look and see what has happened so far.

Great! Indiansmoke is UP to finish the CS-sling and Narri is on-deck; and I'll put you next in the play order after Narri. Since the gameplay hasn't gotten very complex yet (few cities/units, I mean) and we've been shorthanded the last few weeks, the turnsets have been longer than normal but broken up into several smaller pieces.

Indiansmoke will write up the PPP for finishing CS-sling. He may choose to defer playing of it to Narri, in which case you'd move up to "On-deck" status.

We still haven't locked ourselves into Diplo game, though most of our decisions have been made taking that into consideration. Only one team (Fifth Element) seems to have a significantly different strategy at this point, going for early culture.

A quick recap:

Spoiler :

I just looked at the save myself to check on spy points with Zara. It is 244/272, meaning that he has probably met one other AI for a while (14 turns or so?). Which means he probably sent a WB east. Which means we should do the same at some point!

Awesome! I never thought of doing that, but it sure makes a lot of sense. I've learned something new! :goodjob:

ETa · May 18, 2010

I'm back as well. Have we won yet?

Deckhand · May 18, 2010

ETa said:
I'm back as well. Have we won yet?

Not yet - we were waiting for you.

Indiansmoke · May 18, 2010

Deckhand said:
Not yet - we were waiting for you.

Haha

.... excellent!

Wait for me as well, making PPP now!

Indiansmoke · May 18, 2010

PPP to CS

Techs:

priesthood, COL (bulb math) CS sling

City management:

Capital: finishes library then makes Oracle

Second city: finishes library runs 2 scientists and makes settler
Units:

workers --chop libraries and premine, prechop capital to be ready to finish after math...also road towards second city.

warriors explore zara and fog bust

Diplo:

Peace is the Way,

Other:

Third city goes to grassland coastal spot towards zara to make scouting workboat

Indiansmoke · May 18, 2010

After Deckhand's excellent espionage spotting, I believe third city must go to a semi crap spot in order to get the workboat out asap and meet everyone...unless we see by scouting warrior that the fish site has workboat access towards zara?

So waiting for approval and the settling issue to be confirmed so that I know which way to road.

Deckhand · May 18, 2010

Indiansmoke said:
After Deckhand's excellent espionage spotting, I believe third city must go to a semi crap spot in order to get the workboat out asap and meet everyone...unless we see by scouting warrior that the fish site has workboat access towards zara?

So waiting for approval and the settling issue to be confirmed so that I know which way to road.

narri is the one that caught the espionage delta

Are you suggesting on coast south of grassland river area? With some but not all of grassland river area in BFC and one Silver? 2N, 1E of silver? OK with me, compromises site with faster meeting of other civs.
What fish site? In far west? Pretty sure that will be able to get to Zara along north coast. But too far away and we can settle there later.

====
Edit, a question: why is meeting everyone asap critical? [So we can trade techs?]
More time for them to dislike us because of religious differences?
Send our Confu missionary to Zara and let them dislike him.

kcd_swede · May 19, 2010

Deckhand said:
====
Edit, a question: why is meeting everyone asap critical? [So we can trade techs?]
More time for them to dislike us because of religious differences?
Send our Confu missionary to Zara and let them dislike him.

For fast UN finish we need fast tech through the first half of the tech tree, and that can only be done by trading techs. Tech trading also will lead to improved relations, and we get more trades if we begin before the AI start developing "worst enemy" status with the ones we'd like to trade with. Also, we will need to decide fairly early who our target civ(s) for getting to Friendly will be and avoid doing things that will hurt us later.

For fast culture victory, we need more religions than we will found ourselves. That means we need contacts with the folks who have them.

As for Zara... he will have -diplo with us for close borders, so is not a great target for Friendly for that reason. But he will vote for us at +8 pleased which we could easily get with shared religion and playing nice. (But everyone else will then hate us). I'd say for now we should plan that Zara will be an enemy that we piss off, and if lucky he will do something stupid like declare war on us.

Sending him the Confu missionary might be a way to do that, unles his contacts are without religions and he spreads it to them... in which case plan B is to adopt it ourselves and play nice with a confu block.

Back to the settling question... I need to take a look at the save again before I comment. BRB.

kcd_swede · May 19, 2010

Settling the cow-pig-fish would make a wb take 8 turns extra to get to the east coast compared to settling on the grasslands hill coast with silver. That assumes there is no sea-ice blocking the southern coastal pass. Probably about 14 extra turns if forced to go the north passage (making similar assumptions). No big deal in either case, if you ask me.

Eventually, a fort on the deer opens the south passage (2 border pops in Dehli needed, we get one in 3 turns).

Settling eastward (grass hill)... this city will face culture pressure, and never be very much good, except for producing our naval scouts. It will block off the land from ZY and the other site can still be settled later (this site won't be available much longer).

Settling Northward... no, we want a coastal, and the desert will probably prevent ZY from crossing due to higher maint on other side from him.

Settling westward (such as pig-cow-fish) gives very strong city with naval access. Delays wb scouting by some turns, very slight possibility that there is no access eastwards before building forts. Gives up land (mostly crap) to ZY.

Personally, I think we should go east, but if we can verify the south coast is clear of ice, or that the north coast is not a long extended isthmus maybe not. Ultimately, the west spot gives us faster access to off-continent lands, which we will need to fulfill the conditions of the game. But otoh, we could get this fish spot as city 4 or 5 no matter what, so perhaps settling a city for the sole purpose of making a workboat (and very insignificant land-denial) isn't so daft as it sounds.

<Shrug>... I don't know.

ETa · May 19, 2010

Zara looks like a tempting target. A bit too tempting, I might add. We could use the naval military recon. If Zara gets a city on another continent, war is less appealing. So I would choose between a settlement in eastern grassy hill or the food supermarket in the West. Although Aksum is a rather superb food site so taking it would speak on behalf of the eastern city. So

West:
+ food -> tech/whipping troopers
+ coast

East:
+ tactical
+ coast
+ road to Aksum

kcd_swede · May 21, 2010

Indiansmoke said:
After NARRI's excellent espionage spotting, I believe third city must go to a semi crap spot in order to get the workboat out asap and meet everyone...unless we see by scouting warrior that the fish site has workboat access towards zara?

So waiting for approval and the settling issue to be confirmed so that I know which way to road.

OK, looks like there aren't any strong opinions opposed to the plan, so I will greenlight your plan to settle the semicrap (east) coastal city. Great cities in the west will be available for quite some time and we'll get those soon after.

So, your plan to CS-sling has the GREENLIGHT, but if you are uncertain about anything you can always pause and come back. In fact, if you defog the coast and see something that changes the basis for settling east or west, that would be a good point to pause for discussion. Settler won't be out until the turnset is almost over, anyhow, so it isn't irreversible until then. At worst we have some roads in suboptimal spots if we see something to change our mind on the east settlement.

OK Indiansmoke... get us some Bureacracy! :scan:

Indiansmoke · May 21, 2010

I am having a very busy week at work, might be able to play tonight, if not it will have to be monday night as is is bank holiday weekend here and I am going away.

kcd_swede · May 21, 2010

Indiansmoke said:
I am having a very busy week at work, might be able to play tonight, if not it will have to be monday night as is is bank holiday weekend here and I am going away.

OK, either way is fine. I don't think we are in a hurry. (Yet? :mischief:

) Thanks for letting us know. :goodjob:

Indiansmoke · May 21, 2010

So mission accomplished..well almost that is...

Good news
We got Oracle and CS on turn 94

The barbs settled a nice city for us
Zara settled in a very nice spot for us.

Bad news
I have been really unlucky with barbs
The settler was delayed by 1 turn because of that.
We met Togu

I think we have a long discussion before next session.

Session log

Spoiler :

Deckhand · May 21, 2010

Good news
We got Oracle and CS on turn 94

Good Job

The barbs settled a nice city for us yummy
Zara settled in a very nice spot for us. Why do you say this?

Bad news
I have been really unlucky with barbs Now we need to build more warriors.
The settler was delayed by 1 turn because of that. No problem.
We met Togu workboat? Does Protective get a bonus for building the Great Wall?

ETa · May 22, 2010

Indiansmoke said:
We met Togu

Oh, that's a shame. It could derail the war effort with Zara if there is no one else nearby. Definitely more scouting needed.

Indiansmoke · May 22, 2010

Deckhand said:
Good news
We got Oracle and CS on turn 94 Good Job
The barbs settled a nice city for us yummy
Zara settled in a very nice spot for us. Why do you say this?

Bad news
I have been really unlucky with barbs Now we need to build more warriors.
The settler was delayed by 1 turn because of that. No problem.
We met Togu workboat? Does Protective get a bonus for building the Great Wall?

Some answers
Zara settled south of his capital I think in crap land, leaving the blocking spots for us.
Togu came with workboat from the west...tha SW land tip is a brigde.
Protective civs do not get a bonus.

Deckhand · May 22, 2010

Indiansmoke said:
Togu came with workboat from the west...tha SW land tip is a brigde.

Ugh! It would have been OK if he was east of Zara. Also puts pressure on us to "settle" the Barb city before he does - and other good spots west.

kcd_swede · May 22, 2010

Good job!

CS is delivered t94 as promised. :cooool:

I'll look at the actual save tomorrow and come back with more words tomorow. Sorry to disappoint DH with this short posting.

Deckhand · May 22, 2010

kcd_swede said:
Sorry to disappoint DH with this short posting.

that reminds me - there is one of your xOTM writeups I haven't finished reading.

SGOTM 11 - Unusual Suspects

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