SGOTM 11 - Who Dat?

[Fluroscent]

1480AD is a good diplo date, but even with the extra restrictions, the land was very good, so I wouldn't be suprised to see finishes centuries earlier from someone who nailed it.
I hope we are not beat by a culture game though

 

[cas]

I hope we are not beat by a culture game though

There is only one team going for culture...Maple Sporks. And they are already at 1485AD on their last save.

No worries there.

cas

 

[pnp_dredd]

I might play this game through, going for culture with map knowledge and replays to see how early I can get.

 

[beestar]

Got a PM from AlanH, we can look at other team threads but "please don't post in them if they haven't finished yet".

 

[cas]

There is only one team going for culture...Maple Sporks. And they are already at 1485AD on their last save.
cas

Corrected...the weird name team starting with T'dr'.... is also going culture, but they are already at 1300AD. I don't think they will beat us either. We'll see.

Gypsy Kings are definitely on track to soundly beat our diplo date.

I haven't been able to read all the threads yet. I guess some others might try culture since they are only at ~800-1000AD. Should be a flurry of activity in the next couple of weeks.

cas

 

[beestar]

I had a quick fishing trip and I think we're going to get thrashed by a bunch of teams. Plastic Ducks finished in the 900's

Done

Plastic Ducks: 930AD diplo wow
OSS: 1030AD diplo
Phoenix Rising: t358/1690AD diplo victory
​

Still Playing

Barley Demons: T242/980AD, just liberalized Radio.
Xteam: T252/1070AD and about to build UN in 1 turn, win predicted in ~10 turns
Gypsy Kings: T261/1160AD, just liberalized Radio, <20 turns to diplo victory?
Unusual Suspects: T257/1120AD, just got Radio on 1010AD, 20 turns to diplo victory?
Smurkz: T263/1180AD, about to get MM.
ChokoMisfits: T287/1335AD, just teched MM.
Fifth Element: T258/1130AD, 4 turns away from SciMeth, lots of discussion
Maple Sporks: T317/1485AD, chasing culture and about to attack Mehmed and his vassal Izzy.
T'dr...: T280/1300AD, Legendary City #3 still at 9500 culture.
​

For comparison, we liberalized Radio in T257/1120AD (very competitive!), and teched Mass Media in T269/1240AD. We won 48 turns later in T317/1485AD.

From my quick look, several teams were able to tech Mass Media quickly after Radio, and then constructed the UN immediately. There are lots of approaches: rush-buy with Universal Sufferage; spend 2 GEs; found UN in enemy territory for gifting, but settle a new one instead of waiting for a captured city to come out of revolt; etc. Wish I'd thought of just one of them! The problem was reliably getting Silk from Mehmed without a late war ... I wonder if plain old peaceful trading for Silk/Dye would have worked if we had buttered him and Isabella up?


P.S. Hey, cas: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9455242&postcount=2658

 

[cas]

For comparison, we liberalized Radio in T257/1120AD (very competitive!), and teched Mass Media in T269/1240AD. We won 48 turns later in T317/1485AD.

P.S. Hey, cas: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9455242&postcount=2658

Ya, I thought it was taking us too long after lib->radio. Could be the other teams just prepared better for the MM->diplo vote phase. In the end, i think it was our war (too little / too late) that really cost us most of delay. But I'll have to look at the 930AD finish. That is insane.

As for BLubmuz thinking that my 1360AD date in the HoF was a decent standard...well, that was a OCC game with specific settings/leaders by the Challenge II rules...so it is not really a good comparison.

cas

 

[pnp_dredd]

Our first 100 turns were broadly similar to the plastic ducks.

omg I just found their test game - pretty much perfect at 715AD. (post #1525)

We both built 'mids, and we oracled COL a few turns earlier than they did, as they teched Wheel first, but we didn't. Then they got Masonry and Maths, similar to us.

After that they beelined CS, while we detoured a bit to get Alphabet etc. They built ToA and Colossus early and HG late. They got Education around 20-30 turns earlier than us, as we teched (or traded) Philo and Theo first. We were close in tech strategy up to that point, but they had a pile more land. On the continent to the West they settled a nice 3-gold city, and another city , and took most of Zara's land early too.

They ran a couple of Golden Ages after building Oxford and MoM to accelerate through Astro to Electricity in a ridiculously short number of turns.

 

[Gumbolt]

1480ad isn't a bad win date. Congrats on that. I think Pheonix rising is due for the wooden spoon. Unless a team does not meet all game conditions. Could happen.

We wasted a lot of turns on techs that were not really needed. I think we could easily of shaved 70-80 turns off our game. It was a shame we had no immortal/deity player early on in our team. Liberalism on Electricity would of been huge.

If we had gone for a peaceful game we could of skipped loads of techs and avoided a lot of unit builds. In fact a lot of cities could and should of run welath very early on. One of the key things on the early finishers was good diplomacy. +16-18 on mehmed and Izzy.

Still we will build on our team for the next SGOTM.

I think oracle Col was a logical move. Danger with oracle is you don't know how close the Ai are to it. If you wait you might miss it. The wonder we missed was the great lighthouse. Huge really as we had 8-10 coastal cities.

I honestly think matching PD was going to be tough for a lot of the teams. A lot of deity players who know what they are doing.

 

[beestar]

Hey Gumbolt, congratulations on your win. There were lots of places things could go really wrong (e.g. defensive pacts are a really bad idea, I realized in retrospect).

We focused on getting our allies really friendly with us and the final vote was a cakewalk. A tech lead helps - gifting Physics always makes AIs happy

 

[kcd_swede]

I had a quick fishing trip and I think we're going to get thrashed by a bunch of teams. Plastic Ducks finished in the 900's

Done

Plastic Ducks: 930AD diplo wow
OSS: 1030AD diplo
Phoenix Rising: t358/1690AD diplo victory
​

Still Playing

Barley Demons: T242/980AD, just liberalized Radio.
Xteam: T252/1070AD and about to build UN in 1 turn, win predicted in ~10 turns
Gypsy Kings: T261/1160AD, just liberalized Radio, <20 turns to diplo victory?
Unusual Suspects: T257/1120AD, just got Radio on 1010AD, 20 turns to diplo victory?
Smurkz: T263/1180AD, about to get MM.
ChokoMisfits: T287/1335AD, just teched MM.
Fifth Element: T258/1130AD, 4 turns away from SciMeth, lots of discussion
Maple Sporks: T317/1485AD, chasing culture and about to attack Mehmed and his vassal Izzy.
T'dr...: T280/1300AD, Legendary City #3 still at 9500 culture.
​

For comparison, we liberalized Radio in T257/1120AD (very competitive!), and teched Mass Media in T269/1240AD. We won 48 turns later in T317/1485AD.

Congrats Who Dat? Not a bad date at all. Update for you: Unusual Suspects are done at 1320AD.

Your play to MM was about the same speed as ours. We had to hold off the UN build about 4-5t delay to get the diplo OK for the SG vote... if we had watched the diplo better we could possibly have bettered our finish date accordingly... but still nothing close to what the top 2 teams did. Still, I thought getting the conditions filled by about 1400AD would be pretty darn good. Still do. I've got lots to learn about the game, I guess.

 

[Gumbolt]

Hey Gumbolt, congratulations on your win. There were lots of places things could go really wrong (e.g. defensive pacts are a really bad idea, I realized in retrospect).

We focused on getting our allies really friendly with us and the final vote was a cakewalk. A tech lead helps - gifting Physics always makes AIs happy

Hmmm defensive pacts scared me!! When someone even suggested it my immediate response was no! You may get +2 diplo but you risk unwanted wars that could lose you the UN.

A lot of our problems came about due to our religion and not getting Ai like Mehmed to open borders.

You look at hammers wasted on units when some saves managed the win peacefully and you soon realise where errors were made. I really need to read through a few of these pages.

Still bashing a few Ai can always be fun. A vassel does secure a vote but it also upsets other friends. 1-2 diplo hits here and there can soon swing the UN.

Finishing 3rd will be the way I see our teams finish. Third team to finish the game.

 

[Duckweed]

Our first 100 turns were broadly similar to the plastic ducks.

omg I just found their test game - pretty much perfect at 715AD. (post #1525)

We both built 'mids, and we oracled COL a few turns earlier than they did, as they teched Wheel first, but we didn't. Then they got Masonry and Maths, similar to us.

After that they beelined CS, while we detoured a bit to get Alphabet etc. They built ToA and Colossus early and HG late. They got Education around 20-30 turns earlier than us, as we teched (or traded) Philo and Theo first. We were close in tech strategy up to that point, but they had a pile more land. On the continent to the West they settled a nice 3-gold city, and another city , and took most of Zara's land early too.

They ran a couple of Golden Ages after building Oxford and MoM to accelerate through Astro to Electricity in a ridiculously short number of turns.

You missed a important issue -- A large part of our strategy in BC era was developed around GLH.

Congratulations on your win.

I honestly think matching PD was going to be tough for a lot of the teams. A lot of deity players who know what they are doing.

Deity players might not be good team players. IMO good team players are more important than deity players. OSS has never been short of deity players, but their performance had hardly beaten team without deity players. However their rehearsals in SG forum made real difference this time.

 

[babybluepants]

Congrats on the finish, WD!

Did you guys seriously enter a defensive pact?!

their rehearsals in SG forum made real difference this time.

Yes, I think it did - those 2-3 games (Taxman, SQ and No happy) were played really, really well. Honestly, we had 6-7 solid players, including one mad genius, one code-diver and several MM freaks, all fully committed to the discussion and testing. Last couple of times, players not participating was the problem, as well as simply running out of time in the end.

 

[beestar]

Congrats on the finish, WD!

Did you guys seriously enter a defensive pact?!

For a few turns at the end - wanted to deter the AIs considering crazy wars that would confuse the diplo situation. We still had a DOW available to us, but yeah, it was a bad idea.

It would be really interesting to know each team's beaker rates, Liberalism dates, and Mass Media dates. Also, what their was policy for ensuring access to all resources - war or peace?

 

[Duckweed]

Yes, I think it did - those 2-3 games (Taxman, SQ and No happy) were played really, really well. Honestly, we had 6-7 solid players, including one mad genius, one code-diver and several MM freaks, all fully committed to the discussion and testing. Last couple of times, players not participating was the problem, as well as simply running out of time in the end.

OSS in SGOTM9 was a good example that lots of deity players did not make a good team. Team work skill is a more important factor than personal skill in SG.

 

[dingding]

OSS in SGOTM9 was a good example that lots of deity players did not make a good team. Team work skill is a more important factor than personal skill in SG.

In terms of teamwork, I'm extremely amazed by the detailed discussion of The Fifth Element.

 

[kossin]

In terms of teamwork, I'm extremely amazed by the detailed discussion of The Fifth Element.

While I agree, a lot of it is circular. There's also the old saying 'Too much is like too little'

I was thinking it would be all spam at the furious rate their were posting early on but it contains some very detailed posts/arguments like you say.

 

[dingding]

P.S. Hey, cas: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9455242&postcount=2658

That's a good dig

I thought at least Duckweed and kossin would have been a bit known in CFC, for one winning "some" GOTM and the other finishing "a couple of" Deity reports

I wonder if they have noticed the spamming of posts among different teams meaning that half of them have finished

 

[Mad Professor]

Good game Who Dat

XTeam is now finished.