unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
Yes +3 in trade relations not overall. -2 overall is what it takes. Thanks for the clarification.
SGOTM 12 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Yes +3 in trade relations not overall. -2 overall is what it takes. Thanks for the clarification.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
OK, UT do your best to save us turns of research.
About the fallout, i highlighted the problem long ago. But there can be less land than we can think. Let's wait to know more of the land before start to make plans.
For now, i think that the HS can be very useful, pity we need a detour on a useless tech.
But there's time to think about this.
About the fallout, i highlighted the problem long ago. But there can be less land than we can think. Let's wait to know more of the land before start to make plans.
For now, i think that the HS can be very useful, pity we need a detour on a useless tech.
But there's time to think about this.
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
Okay so I will go with my revised trade plan and otherwise follow the latest PPP posted.
I will be able to play later tonight. Sometime in the next 2 to 3 hours.
I will be able to play later tonight. Sometime in the next 2 to 3 hours.
Fluroscent
Emperor
The need to clean FO just emphasizes the benefit of going big this game. Cleaning FO would be a problem for a small 15-20 city empire compared to research speed, but if we shoot for 40+ cities (more even, given there is no dom limit), and a matching 80+ workers, then the FO will be a minor problem in the end.
Good luck! I hope you agreed with my comments in #353 then.
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
Starting Soon.
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
The TS is finished. I stopped on T96 (4 turns early) since I finished all the research that we had decided on ahead of time.
I believe it was an overwhelming success. Things went even better than expected.
I brought in Alphabet, Masonry, Construction, HBR, Polytheism and IW in 11 turns. I also got 40 gold out of G in one trade and 20 in the other.
I also got all the peace treaties requested.
Here is the save
Here are the highlights from my notes:
T85
Gave CoL and Math to G
T86
Trade Curr for Alpha, Masonry and 20 Gold
OB with G
Peace with Roos for Math
Peace with Mao for Math and PH
Peace with Church for Math and PH
T88
MP the axe in CI
T89
Move chariot into France
Spot French Sword
Chariot attacked by and kills a French Axe. Then a french archer attacks the injured chariot and our chariot died.
T93
Finished Const and start HBR
T94
Traded Const to G for IW, Poly and 40 Gold
Found Iron SSE of Moscow
Redirected Worker 6 & 7 to clear and mine iron
T96
Finished HBR
Mao requests CoL and I respectfully decline.
Selected Aesthetics as tech but this can be changed if we don't want Lit as the next goal.
Session Log
Autolog
I believe it was an overwhelming success. Things went even better than expected.
I brought in Alphabet, Masonry, Construction, HBR, Polytheism and IW in 11 turns. I also got 40 gold out of G in one trade and 20 in the other.
I also got all the peace treaties requested.
Here is the save
Here are the highlights from my notes:
T85
Gave CoL and Math to G
T86
Trade Curr for Alpha, Masonry and 20 Gold
OB with G
Peace with Roos for Math
Peace with Mao for Math and PH
Peace with Church for Math and PH
T88
MP the axe in CI
T89
Move chariot into France
Spot French Sword
Chariot attacked by and kills a French Axe. Then a french archer attacks the injured chariot and our chariot died.
T93
Finished Const and start HBR
T94
Traded Const to G for IW, Poly and 40 Gold
Found Iron SSE of Moscow
Redirected Worker 6 & 7 to clear and mine iron
T96
Finished HBR
Mao requests CoL and I respectfully decline.
Selected Aesthetics as tech but this can be changed if we don't want Lit as the next goal.
Session Log
Spoiler :
Autolog
Spoiler :
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
beestar
subdeity
Hmm, looks pretty good. Lots to digest.
The AI's wouldn't accept Alphabet for peace? (Does this imply that Gandhi and us are the only ones who control tech trading?
Is it possible to trade our gold resource to Gandhi for anything?
What does the tech scene look like?
Can we generate a GP soon? This is probably our one chance to get a GPro for the Confucian shrine, but we may want to avoid antagonizing our only friend Gandhi. A GS should let us bulb Philo and then acquire Nationalism from De Gaulle or Churchill, and then Constitution from Roosevelt.
Agree with Fluro's comment about big empire for lots of worker cleaning. Maybe we can war on Mao and extract Communism as the price of peace, then go to State Property ...
Who's next?
The AI's wouldn't accept Alphabet for peace? (Does this imply that Gandhi and us are the only ones who control tech trading?
. Very good news. I see that Gandhi is Mao's worst enemy. We may need to prop up Gandhi to prevent him from being killed by Mao. Also, this means we can now trade with Mao.
Is it possible to trade our gold resource to Gandhi for anything?
What does the tech scene look like?
Can we generate a GP soon? This is probably our one chance to get a GPro for the Confucian shrine, but we may want to avoid antagonizing our only friend Gandhi. A GS should let us bulb Philo and then acquire Nationalism from De Gaulle or Churchill, and then Constitution from Roosevelt.
Agree with Fluro's comment about big empire for lots of worker cleaning. Maybe we can war on Mao and extract Communism as the price of peace, then go to State Property ...
Who's next?
beestar
subdeity
Also,
Holy crap, look at all that land to the northwest! (And a silver resource too ... )
Holy crap, look at all that land to the northwest! (And a silver resource too ... )
Fluroscent
Emperor
Good news! Nicely done TS 
Glad to see the tech gift gambit working out.
Iron on the Moscow hill
Superb land available. Especially one city site might be worth pursuing asap. I am thinking 1SE of the marble. That city has marble, rice, deer, silver, six riverside grasses, a lone hill and a bunch of riverside tundra (cottagable too). A future research powerhouse that immediately will give us marble for our epics and GLIB, and silver for early commerce and happiness. Not to mention that it has no less than 18 tiles that will get the levee bonus later.
And it looks like we could found some entirely useless cities to gift to target AI's further north.
DeGaulle got a Great General... A bit annoying. It is of course because whoever was in charge before us was nice enough to suicide a bunch of warriors. We can expect the other AI to pop a GG on their first victory too then.
Gandhi, as expected, shrined buddhism. A juicy target city for later surely.
Tech path: Surely a music beeline is in order now (unless some AI's already started on the path, didn't check yet). With marble available, we can surely go for GLib in Moscow. And HEpic as soon as we can (Still think CI is a good choice for it). The artist will be very profitable for a golden age to speed us through Oxford, including whatever civic changes we want then. Slavery/OR/confu probably.
Ok, I'll take a look at the save and probably have more to say then. Edit: we are top of the scoreboard now
Glad to see the tech gift gambit working out.
Iron on the Moscow hill
Superb land available. Especially one city site might be worth pursuing asap. I am thinking 1SE of the marble. That city has marble, rice, deer, silver, six riverside grasses, a lone hill and a bunch of riverside tundra (cottagable too). A future research powerhouse that immediately will give us marble for our epics and GLIB, and silver for early commerce and happiness. Not to mention that it has no less than 18 tiles that will get the levee bonus later.
And it looks like we could found some entirely useless cities to gift to target AI's further north.
DeGaulle got a Great General... A bit annoying. It is of course because whoever was in charge before us was nice enough to suicide a bunch of warriors. We can expect the other AI to pop a GG on their first victory too then.
Gandhi, as expected, shrined buddhism. A juicy target city for later surely.
Tech path: Surely a music beeline is in order now (unless some AI's already started on the path, didn't check yet). With marble available, we can surely go for GLib in Moscow. And HEpic as soon as we can (Still think CI is a good choice for it). The artist will be very profitable for a golden age to speed us through Oxford, including whatever civic changes we want then. Slavery/OR/confu probably.
Ok, I'll take a look at the save and probably have more to say then. Edit: we are top of the scoreboard now
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Good one, UT. I won't expected less!
Beestar and Fluro already said all.
I need to better look to that city spot near the silver, but am i wrong or it can grab furs too? Also, no fallout to clean or is just the screenie?
Then there's another one near rice, iron and wine.
We must decide if settle a few powerful cities or many good cities. I think i'm for few.
Nice to have those doubts.
I am surprised dG have metals. I could have bet he has only archers. At this point the phants strategy seems weak.
Organization note. Who's up? with so many members not so active or even away, i don't know... i think anyone who chimes in in the next 24 hours is welcome.
Beestar and Fluro already said all.
I need to better look to that city spot near the silver, but am i wrong or it can grab furs too? Also, no fallout to clean or is just the screenie?
Then there's another one near rice, iron and wine.
We must decide if settle a few powerful cities or many good cities. I think i'm for few.
Nice to have those doubts.
I am surprised dG have metals. I could have bet he has only archers. At this point the phants strategy seems weak.
Organization note. Who's up? with so many members not so active or even away, i don't know... i think anyone who chimes in in the next 24 hours is welcome.
pnp_dredd
civ junkie
great turnset. I'm posting this from the Emirates lounge in Paris (sipping a cognac and eating french pastries) after having finished my trip, but I've got 30 hours of travel ahead of me and then I'll be jetlagged, and will want to spend some time with the kids, and the wife! so I won't volunteer right now.
That GG thing will be a bit of a pain. It's an encouragement to try to get the AI to delcare on each other (but of course not to let them kill each other!).
We've got some tough but fun choices ahead.
France's lack of metal means less reason to focus on elephants, but we want Aesthetics and of course Education. Plus Philo because we have the opportunity to get great techs really early via trade. Great Library + representation is a somewhat unusual combination!
For our production goals, we need an army, but also want to settle and begin improving 2-3 of those those great spots asap (and the settler building bonus makes that even more attractive).
Will post more thoughts later.
That GG thing will be a bit of a pain. It's an encouragement to try to get the AI to delcare on each other (but of course not to let them kill each other!).
We've got some tough but fun choices ahead.
France's lack of metal means less reason to focus on elephants, but we want Aesthetics and of course Education. Plus Philo because we have the opportunity to get great techs really early via trade. Great Library + representation is a somewhat unusual combination!
For our production goals, we need an army, but also want to settle and begin improving 2-3 of those those great spots asap (and the settler building bonus makes that even more attractive).
Will post more thoughts later.
Fluroscent
Emperor
More notes and suggestions from having looked at the save
Cities:
Moscow
Status: One turn from growing, and completing the monastary. Will have +4
when we switch the scientist to cottage. But it will be back to +2 at size 7 if we work mine or scientist.
Outlook: We can grow to size 8 with a temple after monastary, but we will want to get back the fish for growing to size 8 at +7 surplus.
At size 8, we can work 2 cows, 2 gold, iron mine, 2 cottages, and switch between clam and scientist +1 to -3 surplus to avoid growing to size 9 before we get more happiness. Builds could continue unchanged from previous plans, which means Temple-Stable-Chariot(medic)-Phants.
Debatable would be to build a settler first, to settle the northern marble/silver site. I think we should build our initial phant strikeforce - 5-6 of them? first to not delay the war any longer before settler.
We still need to chop the other riverside forest and cottage it (remembering to activate it at Moscow!). And the other forest too for production can't hurt.
St. Petersburg
Status: Size 4, growing at +3 to size 5 in four turns. Has built granary and barracks, and is about to start building catapults.
Outlook: Happycapped at size 6 for now, which is fine, since it can grow onto the remaining two hills (1 grass, 1 plains) to stagnate at size 6.
The PH mine is done next turn, so we need to scrub/mine the other as well. I imagine one worker is enough for this task though as size 5->6 will take some turns. We free one worker that way.
We could try to time growth with the last mines completion by working the silk tile (2) some of the time over the PH mine.
At size 6 we will have 17
/turn at base, meaning roughly 3 turn catapults. There is also a forest to chop, two if we want to chop the silk forest too (probably wise).
CI
Status: Yet to complete granary (3 turns). Working a merchant due to lack of tiles improved. Just size 4.
Outlook: With no rush to grow (granary incomplete, no tiles to work, health problems until we clear some more fallout), we can switch from fish to lake, letting Moscow grow faster with the fish, and stagnating a bit for now.
In the interest of early hammers, I think we should get a worker over (one of the StP ones) to road a hill and have the two ivory workers help clear/mine after improving the ivory.
Once Moscow is size 8 we can reclaim the fish, and grow to size 6 to work 2 ivory, 2 grass hills, 1 fish, 1 cows for +1 and 15/turn.
Build finish granary-barracks-catapults.
Scouting
I think we should get the chariot back to scout the SE part we have not seen (bananaland), and then move west to find the other AI. The missionary can check out the rest of the northern lands. A workboat is probably due now, so we could just pop one out from Moscow since it is a cheap build. Remember that we can get trade routes with Gandhi when we get a visual route (and sailing).
Tech
I don't think we should trade HBR or CS to Gandhi. So I think we should not trade until we finish our music path, if that is what we do. I think it is best, since we can use the artist for a nicely timed GA that will let us switch to slavery/OR/Confu.
We might use the GA itself to starve a city with scientists/caste/pacifism to help bulb education, and switch to slavery/OR at the end. But that of course requires either Philo or Paya.
I imagine that once we have music (maybe sooner), that we trade Aesthetics for Sailing+Mono+gold.
Who is next? Cas/orb are next but don't seem to post atm. Same for havr who is next then. Depending on how easy we can agree on the next set, pnp_dredd might be available? Otherwise I guess I am up (But I really wish more of the team would be more active).
Cities:
Moscow
Status: One turn from growing, and completing the monastary. Will have +4
when we switch the scientist to cottage. But it will be back to +2 at size 7 if we work mine or scientist.Outlook: We can grow to size 8 with a temple after monastary, but we will want to get back the fish for growing to size 8 at +7
surplus. At size 8, we can work 2 cows, 2 gold, iron mine, 2 cottages, and switch between clam and scientist +1
to -3 surplus to avoid growing to size 9 before we get more happiness. Builds could continue unchanged from previous plans, which means Temple-Stable-Chariot(medic)-Phants. Debatable would be to build a settler first, to settle the northern marble/silver site. I think we should build our initial phant strikeforce - 5-6 of them? first to not delay the war any longer before settler.
We still need to chop the other riverside forest and cottage it (remembering to activate it at Moscow!). And the other forest too for production can't hurt.
St. Petersburg
Status: Size 4, growing at +3
to size 5 in four turns. Has built granary and barracks, and is about to start building catapults.Outlook: Happycapped at size 6 for now, which is fine, since it can grow onto the remaining two hills (1 grass, 1 plains) to stagnate at size 6.
The PH mine is done next turn, so we need to scrub/mine the other as well. I imagine one worker is enough for this task though as size 5->6 will take some turns. We free one worker that way.
We could try to time growth with the last mines completion by working the silk tile (2
) some of the time over the PH mine.At size 6 we will have 17
/turn at base, meaning roughly 3 turn catapults. There is also a forest to chop, two if we want to chop the silk forest too (probably wise).CI
Status: Yet to complete granary (3 turns). Working a merchant due to lack of tiles improved. Just size 4.
Outlook: With no rush to grow (granary incomplete, no tiles to work, health problems until we clear some more fallout), we can switch from fish to lake, letting Moscow grow faster with the fish, and stagnating a bit for now.
In the interest of early hammers, I think we should get a worker over (one of the StP ones) to road a hill and have the two ivory workers help clear/mine after improving the ivory.
Once Moscow is size 8 we can reclaim the fish, and grow to size 6 to work 2 ivory, 2 grass hills, 1 fish, 1 cows for +1
and 15/turn.Build finish granary-barracks-catapults.
Scouting
I think we should get the chariot back to scout the SE part we have not seen (bananaland), and then move west to find the other AI. The missionary can check out the rest of the northern lands. A workboat is probably due now, so we could just pop one out from Moscow since it is a cheap build. Remember that we can get trade routes with Gandhi when we get a visual route (and sailing).
Tech
I don't think we should trade HBR or CS to Gandhi. So I think we should not trade until we finish our music path, if that is what we do. I think it is best, since we can use the artist for a nicely timed GA that will let us switch to slavery/OR/Confu.
We might use the GA itself to starve a city with scientists/caste/pacifism to help bulb education, and switch to slavery/OR at the end. But that of course requires either Philo or Paya.
I imagine that once we have music (maybe sooner), that we trade Aesthetics for Sailing+Mono+gold.
It will have to wait for the 2nd expansion for furs. And the tile is fallouted so we need to clean first. (Another reason to prioritize the war buildup first, we can scarcely spare workers for another city yet)BLubmuz said:
Land optimization is important in space games. I am for a few strong over more weaker when we have the choice, since we can freely expand without worrying about dom limits.BLubmuz said:
Phants are almost equivalent to maces until longbows appear, so I don't think him having iron is a major cause to worry. We can of course target the city with iron first to make it easier. We might just expect an additional catapult casualty per city.BLubmuz said:
Well, France does have metal after all, so phants away!pnp_dredd said:
The bulk of the AI are not very advanced. Gandhi has mono and monarchy. Everyone has sailing and archery. DeGaulle does not even have writing.beestar said:
Who is next? Cas/orb are next but don't seem to post atm. Same for havr who is next then. Depending on how easy we can agree on the next set, pnp_dredd might be available? Otherwise I guess I am up (But I really wish more of the team would be more active).
Fluroscent
Emperor
Since there is some concern about expanding, let me stress that DeGaulle has four cities now. Likely five when we attack, which means four cities for us. I don't think regular expansion can compete right now. And his lands do have some fallout, but significantly less that if we settle ourselves.
An early war is likely what could put us ahead in this competition so I want to carry through with it.
An early war is likely what could put us ahead in this competition so I want to carry through with it.
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
I agree with Fluro. We need to go all out on taking over France. Also I think that if we plan to settle then the south banana location is the best for grabbing land and stalling AI expansion. If we don't block towards the AI and then backfill the north, we risk allowing the AI to expand in our direction and we don't want that.
5-6 phants and 4-5 cats should be good to at least start the roll on DeG. It may seem excessive but remember that the AI has been at war and DeG loves to build units as it is. At one move around france, I saw 7 to 8 archers roaming and the cities look to have 3 or 4 in them too. So we are likely to run up against a fairly large (even if ineffectual) force in each city. We need to be prepared because if we roll in too light on units all we will accomplish is giving him experience.
5-6 phants and 4-5 cats should be good to at least start the roll on DeG. It may seem excessive but remember that the AI has been at war and DeG loves to build units as it is. At one move around france, I saw 7 to 8 archers roaming and the cities look to have 3 or 4 in them too. So we are likely to run up against a fairly large (even if ineffectual) force in each city. We need to be prepared because if we roll in too light on units all we will accomplish is giving him experience.
beestar
subdeity
Sounds good.
About the war, just throwing it out there, but what about shipping the army over by galley? The big advantage is that we can drop the stack right next to Paris, hopefully on a hill. An axe and an elephant for defense to start, then 2 catapults to start bombarding down Paris' defence, while we finish building/transporting the remaining units.
In contrast, if we go by land, we have to wait until we can assemble a mini stack, as it's too risky to send out two catapults undefended (for example). This means lag time in getting the war started.
De Gaulle's cities are about 16 tiles away: about 12 in Fallout neutral lands, and 4 in his territory. Without roading, it takes 16 turns to get our army there. If we build roads in the neutral lands, then that's 6 + 4 = 10 turns travel time, but it takes about 36 worker-turns to develop that long road.
In contrast, shipping a 10 unit army across the inner sea takes 5 turns since it's only 1 sea tile away, and we can unload old units / load new units on the same turn. As above, we can start bombarding and hopefully be ready to attack by the time the last few units arrive.
I think this could be done with a two-fort chain from Cote d'Ivoire to the inner coast, which would cost some worker turns to build (2x10 turns??), and of course we would need Sailing to build a galley.
I've discussed the worker-turn advantage, but I think the big advantage is actually being able to decapitate Paris first, with efficient bombarding and low risk of being attacked along the road to Paris. Thoughts?
About the war, just throwing it out there, but what about shipping the army over by galley? The big advantage is that we can drop the stack right next to Paris, hopefully on a hill. An axe and an elephant for defense to start, then 2 catapults to start bombarding down Paris' defence, while we finish building/transporting the remaining units.
In contrast, if we go by land, we have to wait until we can assemble a mini stack, as it's too risky to send out two catapults undefended (for example). This means lag time in getting the war started.
De Gaulle's cities are about 16 tiles away: about 12 in Fallout neutral lands, and 4 in his territory. Without roading, it takes 16 turns to get our army there. If we build roads in the neutral lands, then that's 6 + 4 = 10 turns travel time, but it takes about 36 worker-turns to develop that long road.
In contrast, shipping a 10 unit army across the inner sea takes 5 turns since it's only 1 sea tile away, and we can unload old units / load new units on the same turn. As above, we can start bombarding and hopefully be ready to attack by the time the last few units arrive.
I think this could be done with a two-fort chain from Cote d'Ivoire to the inner coast, which would cost some worker turns to build (2x10 turns??), and of course we would need Sailing to build a galley.
Spoiler :
I've discussed the worker-turn advantage, but I think the big advantage is actually being able to decapitate Paris first, with efficient bombarding and low risk of being attacked along the road to Paris. Thoughts?
unclethrill
Why am I up right now?
Sounds good.
About the war, just throwing it out there, but what about shipping the army over by galley? The big advantage is that we can drop the stack right next to Paris, hopefully on a hill. An axe and an elephant for defense to start, then 2 catapults to start bombarding down Paris' defence, while we finish building/transporting the remaining units.
In contrast, if we go by land, we have to wait until we can assemble a mini stack, as it's too risky to send out two catapults undefended (for example). This means lag time in getting the war started.
De Gaulle's cities are about 16 tiles away: about 12 in Fallout neutral lands, and 4 in his territory. Without roading, it takes 16 turns to get our army there. If we build roads in the neutral lands, then that's 6 + 4 = 10 turns travel time, but it takes about 36 worker-turns to develop that long road.
In contrast, shipping a 10 unit army across the inner sea takes 5 turns since it's only 1 sea tile away, and we can unload old units / load new units on the same turn. As above, we can start bombarding and hopefully be ready to attack by the time the last few units arrive.
I think this could be done with a two-fort chain from Cote d'Ivoire to the inner coast, which would cost some worker turns to build (2x10 turns??), and of course we would need Sailing to build a galley.
Spoiler :
I've discussed the worker-turn advantage, but I think the big advantage is actually being able to decapitate Paris first, with efficient bombarding and low risk of being attacked along the road to Paris. Thoughts?
I REALLY LIKE THIS IDEA!!!
I want to run a test or two on the fort idea since I've never done that ( I assume the idea is to sail the ship all the way to CI via forts).
This is the kind of strategy that could really make a difference. We will likely lose less units and should be able to take over much faster.
beestar
subdeity
With apologies to troytheface, this could be the Amphibious Elephant Plan
A test would be really great, UT - there's a very specific configuration of forts that will be needed to allow the ships to go through from CI to France.
EDIT: also, can we build a Fort on Fallout, or do we need to clean the Fallout first? How long does it take?
A test would be really great, UT - there's a very specific configuration of forts that will be needed to allow the ships to go through from CI to France.
EDIT: also, can we build a Fort on Fallout, or do we need to clean the Fallout first? How long does it take?
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Great idea the forts, Beestar
We need sailing and we can probably have it in trade. Better 2 galleys.
We need sailing and we can probably have it in trade. Better 2 galleys.
Fluroscent
Emperor
Intriguing idea, but I have to respectfully say that I fail to see the advantage. If it even works (I am not sure we can move ships from city to inland fort).
First off, while we "save" worker turns by not building the road, we have to build two forts... Forts are extremely expensive. So much that it is on par with the whole road to France (IIRC ~15 turns each? not sure though). And the road is not wasted anyway to facilitate future movement (I think we want it either way), since we are going to settle the land in between anyway.
And the hitch right now is production. We don't want to spend extra on galleys.
The only compelling reasoning would be to quicker ship reinforcements during the war. But then I would much prefer we build a settler, and SETTLE a city on the coast to produce a galley. That way we can avoid wasting hammers and workerturns for our initial strike.
In my experience, capturing an auxillary city first is better, since we will deal with a weaker garrison and draw some of his forces to counterattack on our terms. And when we have a city, we can heal fast and march on Paris with higher upgrades (particularly, a couple of CR2 catapults) against a much less focused army. We don't really care IF he attacks us on the road, since we will get great odds against anything, so it is actually better than us having to crack a tough capital stacked with units.
My conclusion is that the travel distance is not long enough to warrant galley transport.
First off, while we "save" worker turns by not building the road, we have to build two forts... Forts are extremely expensive. So much that it is on par with the whole road to France (IIRC ~15 turns each? not sure though). And the road is not wasted anyway to facilitate future movement (I think we want it either way), since we are going to settle the land in between anyway.
And the hitch right now is production. We don't want to spend extra on galleys.
The only compelling reasoning would be to quicker ship reinforcements during the war. But then I would much prefer we build a settler, and SETTLE a city on the coast to produce a galley. That way we can avoid wasting hammers and workerturns for our initial strike.
I've discussed the lack of worker turn advantage, so I'll ask how the other point really is an advantage?beestar said:
In my experience, capturing an auxillary city first is better, since we will deal with a weaker garrison and draw some of his forces to counterattack on our terms. And when we have a city, we can heal fast and march on Paris with higher upgrades (particularly, a couple of CR2 catapults) against a much less focused army. We don't really care IF he attacks us on the road, since we will get great odds against anything, so it is actually better than us having to crack a tough capital stacked with units.
My conclusion is that the travel distance is not long enough to warrant galley transport.
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