Re: the 1-turn hospital. I think it goes like this...
690>700 interturn.
+1 food; 36 food in the bin.
The Ironworks finishes, production up to 72spt. Start hospital.
700ad.
Disband rifle for 20 shields.
Whip twice (to granary) for 40 shields. Join one worker to bring the city to pop 11. Leave the iron unworked; production down to 64spt, food up to +2fpt.
Finish the 3 chops for 20 shields. Production down to 52spt, food up to +5fpt net.
Build a mine; production up to 54spt.
Disband a galleon and a dromon for 19 shields total.
700>710 interturn.
The food box fills; growth to pop 12. The governor will choose the iron; production up to 62spt.
20 + 40 + 20 + 19 + 62 shields production = 161 shields, hospital finishes.
Well, it isn't as expensive as I thought - when you first said it could be done, I didn't really believe it.
If we do go for the 1-turn hospital, we would have to make immediate use of it, adding at least seven workers in (which would leave 5 workers and 2 slaves iirc, enough to make a 1-turn railroad). They would all go to coast tiles, making an extra 7*2*4 = 56 beakers.
And because we save ourselves a turn of production, we effectively get 63 shields back again - enough to replace the disbanded dromon with a frigate, for instance. I think it is worth doing.
Despite being a holiday, today was quite busy...Tomorrow is as busy, so I won't have time to play before Tuesday.
So, if anyone else wises to play, please go ahead.
Korea: We don't have the military presence in India to go on the offensive against Korea, but maybe once the Dutch campaign is over we can take some towns. I don't know if Korea has Nationalism or not though. If they do, then it may not be worth attacking them until we have strength 6 attackers (and bombard support).
Holland: There are two things you might want to wait for.
(1) putting a road on Mount Pasar (the volcano), which will allow instant access to Amsterdam, although that doesn't neccesarily mean it is worth the horses attacking before the foot soldiers catch up. Consider investigating the place first. I don't have a screen shot of the place since we made embassy (1150bc).
(2) Letting the galleons near Teo come down to Memphis. They can ferry units across to Rotterdam. Overall, we would like to make the war as short as possible, to give all those swiss pikes little time to make it to either their cities or our undefended Mongolian towns.
Hospitals: Markets and worker pumps are a higher priority, but any core town not occupied by those activity should do its hospital. I think that means Kyoto - switching Pentagon will only waste 6 shields (once tiles are moved to food) and we can have Constan build Pentagon faster if we want it (but it isn't that important until we can transport four-unit armies). Teo and Tenoch are definitely hospital cases.
Workers: We should have as many 1-turn worker pumps as we can make without too much unnecessary tile re-working, although we should start to emphasise irrigation over mining where possible. There are plenty of rails to be laid down too.
Pasar will be an easy 1-turner.
Memphis might be able to do 1-turn workers running from size 6 to 7 (using WLtKD; it would need 2/12 corruption).
Delhi should be capable of 1-turn workers running size 11 to 12, once 12 surrounding tiles are railed, including the hill, and a mountain for the growth citizen.
Persep can do it running size 6 to 7, but might need to keep putting out units first. No good having a swarm of workers if the Dutch capture them all...
Wonders: I would certainly let Constan do Darwin and Pentagon. Are there any other wonders which are interesting to us?
France: How about giving Joan gpt and luxes for war with Korea (she needs a lot of gpt!), then selling her Electricity, then selling her Nationalism. Of course, that would mean we wouldn't have the option of giving Korea peace if they start overwhelming us...
Edit: we can't road the volcano of course. So maybe there's not so much reason to delay the Dutch war. Selling Electricity to Joan would probably recover all the gpt we give her for war with Korea, so we may still have Nationalism in hand to use the same deal against Holland. Or Joan might not be prepared to attack Holland. She refuses to join our wars against Arabia and America for instance.
We should give Joan Medicine and Sanitation too I suppose; she will build hospitals, which will increase her research capacity, but also her production capacity. There's the gamble.
I remind that we can draw gpts from AIs before whip out holland, using the traditional trick.
(pity we don't DOW to Germany)
and
I think we don't have enough units to capture the 2 holland citys, if it was I , I will wait on the railroads and wipe most the units, certainly, that is a war-weakness player's thought.
It's true that a railroad through Tarsus and Hattusas would help us defend those towns. And we should probably put at least one rifleman in each of those towns whether or not we wait for the railroad. Holland does have knights after all.
Also, you are probably right that we don't have enough units to take both Dutch towns at once. That means we would have to deal with their pikes in the field. But that's what the cannon are for I guess. We could do one of those wars where we dow, but then let them send their units out to get killed for a while.
It will take 3 turns to get ships in place to blockade Rotterdam. That is certainly worth waiting for. Holland is trading with France, which suggests that Joan won't ally with us. Perhaps if that trade was broken she might think differently. Holland is not trading with Babylon, which is a good sign.
Okay, I'll try and get some turns in tonight.
- Hospital in Constan. Then back to units - no need for a factory until we want to start Darwin or we get Replaceables from France. Rails should bring us to 80spt, which is enough for any unit before infantry / artillery.
- Kick the Koreans off our land, and chase them back to the chokepoint at least.
- Get ready for war with Holland: rail up the Mongolian province, bring galleons towards Rotterdam. Send some scouts (i.e. a tresspassing army) around to have a look at their troop numbers. Investigate their towns? Costs about 200g for the pair I think...
- Sell and gift techs to France, including Sanitation.
- Keep emphasising food and population, shifting towns into worker pump mode. arch, I was a bit sceptical about your granary-building programme, but the more I think about, the more I want to transfer it into my regular GOTMs too!
yes, only worker pump citys need ganary, many ganary are wasteful. for example, 12pop-citys which have low food only need adding pop to 20, these citys need not ganarys.
and I think invest 200g on citys is worthy, while we can take back many 200g from dutch's elimination.
Quite a lot happened! Constan finished the ironworks and the hospital. Somehow I actually got my sums wrong about the amount of food and shields in there, but it still grew on target (because I had a spare 1 food in my original plan) and hit the 160 shields, because what I thought was a dromon was in fact a galleon named "dromon", so earned an extra 5 shields when disbanded . Constan is now at size 20, although at some point we will want to push it even higher, irrigating our mines so as to be able to support scientists in there.
Sumeria dowed us, lured in by the prospect of an undefended Thebes. That's another of the people we were counting on for votes, who is now going to be furious with us... not looking good on the actual diplo front eh? I think to stop this happening again, we should assign a unit to every town, not to be moved except under the direst of circumstances. Conscripted rifles if necessary - we just need some presence, because the AI seems to be looking around to get something for free, and there are our towns standing undefended...
Anyway, repulsing the Sumerian invaders got us a leader, currently stood outside Thebes. Obvious uses for him are Pentagon or army. Any arguments either way, or other suggestions?
Up around Oporto, the Koreans have been mostly scattered and killed, and we have their treb (now a cannon), at the cost of one elite* crusader and a couple of tile improvements. They do have a frigate / caravel combo sailing south between Rome and India, which is a threat to both Rome (garrisoned by 1 AC in each town) and Constan, which is currently undefended. We have 3 foot units on a galleon, which can get to either of those places ahead of the Koreans, but we need to choose a destination now or risk being sunk by the frigate (unless anyone can say for sure that escort frigates don't go on the attack). It seems to me that Constan is the obvious choice; the Roman towns are of low importance, and we can try to reinforce them from India if necessary. I'd rather not have to switch Constan to land units (currently doing frigate) because until it can do 1-turn knights it will waste lots of spt. So assuming we garrison Constan, I would expect the Korean to sail past and try to land in Azteca. We would respond by trying to ship chain units back from Persia, and some from Constan, and by trying to intercept the Koreans with Constan's frigates. And bring the AC north from Kyoto. It's a shame Azjap isn't railed yet of course.
On the Dutch front, we have made no moves, as I was distracted by the nearby Sumerian attack, and we are still railing the old Hittite towns. Nor have we yet sent the armies sight-seeing in Holland, or investigated their towns. It might be worth squeezing an explorer out of Persep or Memphis to help in the recon.
France is teched up and hopefully working on Replaceables. We have Joan on our side against Korea, Arabia and America, although that cost us some gpt (paid out for war deals, but not recovered in tech sales because she was losing gpt by dowing some of these people). So that means we are comitted to maintaining these wars, but I think that's okay, as they are giving us happiness, and the Arabs and Americans are certainly no great threat.
The one tech I didn't yet give Joan was Sanitation; gambling that she won't try researching it, so that we can use it to buy her support against the Dutch.
Most military units have not yet moved. There's probably nothing in Portugal capable of stopping the last two enemy pikes from pillaging another tile. There are still two American units landed near Thebes, which we can easily kill. iirc there is an Arabian ship south of Babylon which we can bomb with our gate-keeping dromon there. And most importantly there are the two Korean ships west of Rome, and our own troop carrier nearby.
Quite a couple of turns! Here is the log...
Spoiler690ad to 710ad :
690 ad
Give Will Chemistry for 23g + w map + 2 slaves. They start railing a moo.
A round of map trading brings in 85g.
Give Joan 187gpt + ivory + incense for war with Korea. She goes to cautious.
Give Joan Electricity for 178gpt + 28g. She swallowed the other 9gpt without trace.
Give Joan 169gpt for war with America. Give Joan Medicine for 152gpt.
Give Joan 36gpt for war with Arabia. Give Joan Nationalism for 35gpt. She is now gracious to us.
On Alpha...
Elite* crusader dies attacking elite Korean spear on hill. Finish the job with a mace, capturing a treb.
Use the treb to bomb Korea's easternmost stack for 1hp. Cover the treb and rail gang with the army.
Wounded AC to Delhi to heal. Conscript rifles fortify in Oporto. Elite knight attacks stray pike, kills it, and fortifies in Oporto.
Veteran crusaders go to wait in Lisbon and Bombay, using the unit-in-every-town principle.
Ships around south Alpha head south. I would still like to pursue the war with England, although it will have to wait until after we have dealt with Korea and Holland.
On Gamma...
Use cannon to redline American galley south of Memphis. Sink it with a dromon.
Start roading the jungle near Pasar, finish the rail near Memphis, start the Transmogolian railroad.
Two rifles head north from Pasar. Galleons near Azjap move south towards Gamma. Bring 3 more through Teo to reform the ship chain.
Dromon near Babylon bombs Arabian caravel for 1hp.
Tenoch, Teo and Kyoto switch to Hospital - Kyoto shifts shields to food.
Delhi switches knight to mace, and emphasises food (mace is not possible in 1 turn).
Hold up growth in Karakorum, to promote slave production over worker production.
Switch Hattusas to library.
Interturn
Sumeria dumps a couple of units near Thebes. Hey ho, another dow eh?
Korea attacks Oporto twice, promoting a rifle to vet, and sends ships towards Rome. Tricky.
On Alpha...
Complete Bombay-Delhi railroad. Korean treb comes down to Delhi for upgrade.
Crusader from Oporto kills pike on flat land. AC from Oporto does the same. AC army redlines killing a musket; fortify in Delhi.
Mace retires to Lisbon. Vet rifle and two vet crusaders board galleon heading for Rome.
On Gamma...
Irrigate a tile near Pasar. The town is now ready for 1-turn workers.
Rifle fortifies in Tarsus. Send units to Thebes to box in the Sumerians - they have ROP with us after all.
Ships gather near Memphis.
1-turn Hospital...
Disband rifle in Constan. Whip granary, switch back to hospital. Finish the chops. Finish the railroad the Dutch slaves started.
Add one worker; Constan to pop 11. Diband 2 galleons for 24 shields. Leave the town with +5fpt to fill the box.
Map trade for 20g.
Give Gil embargo against Korea.
Interturn
America dros a couple of units near Thebes too.
The Sumerians dow, losing their longbow, but pillaging a gem tile.
Korea does not unload into Rome, but continues south.
Delhi builds mace; start worker.
Lisbon builds worker; start worker.
Constan grows to pop 12 and builds hospital; start frigate.
Memphis builds worker; start 2-turn worker.
Pasar grows and builds court; start 1-turn worker.
710 ad
On Gamma...
Cannon bomb the foreign units.
Get a leader killing the Sumerian pike with an elite longbow.
Road on jungle complete; push the railroad almost to Tarsus.
Rifle arrives in Hattusas.
On Alpha...
Meet a Sumerian frigate/galleon combo sailing between the Ottoman towns. Oh dear.
Cannon bombs Koean pike for 1hp; kill it with an AC. Elite knight pikes off stray pike - I forgot I had a leader in hand.
On Byzantium...
Finish railroad; start mine. Join 8 workers to Constan to bring it pop 20. It currently makes 232 beakers and 66 shields.
And stop here for a team decision on:
(a) What to do with the leader? Pentagon, army, or even a hospital?
(b) Continue with the war against Holland, now that we have the Sumerians on our backs too?
(c) Which way to run before the Korean ship combo in the Indian Sea?
I prefer to make another army too, but the arguments are quite close either way. The Pentagon would either lock our armies onto their current continents, or not be usable until later anyway. So little is lost by delaying it. On the other hand, we have only weak units at the moment, compared to what we will have available when Replaceables or Mil Trad are researched. So another army would be useful in the very short term, but underpowered in the slightly-less-short term.
But I think we will be at war with Holland before we see anyone researching another tech, so the extra power in the very short term is the most important.
Anyway when we do build Pentagon, we could buff all our armies with an extra cav or tank. Of course, we are approaching the endgame, but a final army blitz could be useful in grabbing some extra towns so that our palace prebuild goes all the way to 1000 shields.
Yeah, I couldn't think of anything interesting to do with those dromons east of Holland, so I left them where they were. They might try moving in to bomb one of Holland's iron sources, but that would still leave another near Rotterdam. An army dropped off by sea from Memphis could take that out, but is it useful to do so? If they don't have iron, the Dutch just build muskets instead of pikes...
inner turn:
thebe finish market, start hospital.
delhi finish worker, start ganary.
two korea pike move to horse.
a korea archer and pike land on old Rome.
720AD
ship mace, crusader, crusader, rifle to fortify.
inner turn:
korea want peace, refuse, archer attack rifle and die.
730AD:
kill korea pike.(lost a crusader), no korea units left.
move 3 armys to rotterdam, move ALL units expect 3 rifles to amsterdam.
740AD:
a terrible news, our 7HP 3-knights army lost to a pike!
capture rotterdam.
MM(hire taxman) to 311gpts.
get 155gpts from celt.(this is a mistake, I reverse the trade, so lose many gpts to celt)
750AD
correct the mistake, draw almost all AIs to holland war.
holland left! (lost 2 crusaders more.)
finally, our net gain +1694gpts.
upload here, wait next direct, I can play 6 hours later or Tuesday.
or next player pick up the save. http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm12/Regular_SG012_AD0750_01.SAV
I am back from a very happy wedding and honeymoon. It will probably take a few days to get back on track with everything but I should be able to play my usual 5 turner on wednesday I think.
ui I had a look at the save and hva quite a few questions:
Research
Shouldn't we prebuild Darwin and Research SciMeth?or are we researching the other branch to gain more expensive techs to choose? Although I couldn't find them. Since I never before played in this phase of a game, are there any timing issues to consider, when building Dafrwin, like not having an almost finished research?
Constantinople
Why is all the territory unimproved? Don't we want to build irrigations there? Also I assume we build Knights until we need the Darwin prebuild?
Other cities
We build workers and hospitals, railroad the area and then rejoin the workers?
Military
I assume we take a defensive stance for a while now, unless the options comes up to take out sumeria. Also Babylon hates us (no idea why). Should we take them out while we have the untis on this continent?
Diplo
A real lot of people dislike us, although we never hurt them (like Osman and Babylon) I assume this is due to cut trades they had with our enemies. IS there any way to buy us back on there good side? Do I hav to do anything here?
Other
Never played a diplo through, so anything else I need to know?
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about the amount of food and shields in there, but it still grew on target (because I had a spare 1 food in my original plan) and hit the 160 shields, because what I thought was a dromon was in fact a galleon named "dromon", so earned an extra 5 shields when disbanded 
. Constan is now at size 20, although at some point we will want to push it even higher, irrigating our mines so as to be able to support scientists in there.
I think to stop this happening again, we should assign a unit to every town, not to be moved except under the direst of circumstances. Conscripted rifles if necessary - we just need some presence, because the AI seems to be looking around to get something for free, and there are our towns standing undefended...
