SGOTM 12 - Regular

So any pollution this turn and we miss Darwin? :please:
If that happens, then we get a turn of 0% research - if we were doing 4-turn research it might be worth thinking about holding Darwin back for a further 3 turns, but we are more like 10 turn research...

France are really doing a number on the Koreans huh? When I saw Madrid had fallen, I thought the Koreans would be able to recapture it pretty quickly, but I guess France attacked with rifles, and they seem to be pretty well dug in now.

I should be able to play tonight.
 
Sorry, there were not enough worker close to COn at first, therefore it is now really close.

I thought a little about the pollution thingie...
We might just finish US then (which has little use, but ok) and then start a new try at ToE.

We should be able to build it in 9 turns. France has no prebuild and so it should be possible. In these 10 or 11 turns we should be able to get another tech, right?
 
Pentagon still needs building right? We could use that as a fallback option... marginally more useful than Suffrage. Unfortunately we won't be able to switch the build until after the pollution occurs, i.e. even for Pentagon we would go to ~670 shields.
I think Corporation is another cheap tech, so we might actually be able to do it in 8 turns or so. So if t(Corp) = t(Darwin) + 1, then a switch to Pentagon is on. If t(Corp) > t(Darwin) + 1, then we could continue with Suffrage, or do Pentagon followed by one or more units. And if t(Corp) <= t(Darwin), then we should time Darwin for Steel instead and do either Suffrage or Pentagon, followed by units, in the meantime.
And t(Darwin) = currently 9 turns, would be 8 turns with full tile improvements, 7 turns with a factory (itself a 4-turn build), 6 turns with a coal plant (a further 3-turn build). The build times for factory and plant could be brought down with disbands, full tile improvements or great pollution luck.

Ah, so many variables. I'll report back in a couple of hours, after the all-important interturn.
 
Polluted. :aargh:
 
Can thing recover from it if we ship some wokers?
 
ISn't it better to just cut our losses here and build the damn thing and scrap that turn?
 
No, there was only one turn left to completion of Scientific & Darwin.
We came up short at 598 shields.
Corporation will take 6 turns, and we would then get the next tech 8 turns after that (Refining if the beakers are going well, Steel if they are a bit slower). I'm going to switch the build to Pentagon, then build four frigates/knights, and start Darwin again the turn before we get Corporation.

Edit: crosspost...
I don't know. To build it now loses exactly 1 turn of research. To delay it means an extra ~10 turns watching out for the French. But is that really a problem? If they do suddenly get Scientific, we can easily beat them to Darwin (France currently makes 39spt, would be 44spt with a hospital; their problem is they don't have coal :) ).

So I leave it as a team decision. Possible votes are:
(a) finish Darwin now, running 0&#37; science this turn.
(b) switch to Pentagon or MASH, wasting shields, and time Darwin for the tech after Corp.
(c) finish Suffrage and time Darwin for the tech after Corp.
(d) never mind Darwin, let's research IRONCLADS and rule the seas! :crazyeye:
(e) some other plan I didn't think of.

I'll leave the turn unfinished for now and start again late tonight.
 
598s! what a pity!!
if it was I, of course switch to some other building, I will don't mind whether it is Pentagon or MASH or Suffrage or even a worker. ;)
 
Well you are probably right, don't want this turn to be the missing turn for winning the Game.

I would leave Suffrage open as it is our best prebuild right now.
 
I also vote for b or c. Both are slightly useful.

I think we can beat the French to ToE, they don't have a prebuild at the moment, right?

So I think we still can get the ToE later without losing a turn of research (loss of shields is not that bad)
 
Okay, leaning towards option (b) then.

If we don't succeed in picking up enough AI towns to get a 1000-shield palace, then we would be left with 800-shield palace in Kyoto or 800-shield Suffrage in Constan as prebuilds. Certainly Constan could then get UN the turn after Fission is obtained.
Kyoto I'm not so sure about. I suspect it has about 4 "elite" tiles (hills, bgs), 10 "vets" (grass, plains) and 6 "conscripts" (water). That's a total of 76"hp"; 40fpt for the citizens, 36spt left over. After factory, plant and corruption it will probably max out at about 70spt, so might manage UN two turns after Fission.
Also, the problem with Suffrage is that if France get Industry, they will certainly build it. I would expect them to manage Industry between now and the end of the game, unless we go and conquer them. But in fact I would recommend that as soon as (a) we have Combustion, and (b) they have finished their current research, we gift them up in the hope they go for Flight.

So anyway, we should start thinking about where we can get AI towns on the cheap. I'm sending a couple of transport ships westwards for that English campaign that we keep getting distracted from. We could have a look at the Zulu too; 4 towns, all small. We'd need to land a stack of infantry though, as I would guess the island is thrashing with impi. arch's gpt deals all end in 9 turns.

Also, here is my fairly optimistic prediction of how our research should pan out for the last 7 techs of the game (assuming we don't have to research Replaceables, Atomic, Electronics or Fission)...
SG12_Regular_endgame.GIF


Steel and Refining could be swapped, probably still for 14 turns total. Flight could be brought ahead of Mass Prod; it would make the beaker progression smoother, but then we expect a jump in beaker production when our Docks get built anyway, so I guess this is the optimal order. Docks only cost 80 shields for SEA civs yes?

That makes 40 turns of research left. We are currently on turn 200, and turn 240 = 1250ad, which would land us right in the region of klarius and Ivan's finishing dates. We could actually scrape a second place :eek: (assuming that Spooks finished, rather than gave up of course).
Teams still playing are Regular, Smurkz and tao.

Edit: still thinking about the French... for them to be any help at all with Flight, they would need to making about 400bpt (their cost for it will be 4320 beakers I think). I presume that isn't even remotely possible?
 
Maybe Spooks lost the diplo vote, who knows...or some uber-AI build a Spaceship...

archphoenix, do you have knowledge about what France might research for us if we gift them to a point? Which is most likely? Or will they bore us with Fascism, Communism or so?
 
PB write a post before that I totally agree.

since we gift Joan tech in order.(sp,electrical,nationlism)
Joan will be most likely to research RP.

about communism and Fascism: (my practice not theory based.)
AI who enter IA will judge itself, if he think heself is tech advance, he will focus on productive tech like steampower etc, if he find he must take some invade action or under attack, surely nationlism and fascism thread.

this is my thought Joan research chance:
RP > industrial > democracy > communism
 
I believe both APs and PBs intelligence points against trying for France to research us flight. Lets just keep the froglegs in doubt, what to do. Or even better try to lure them away from Industrial.

Militarywise lets remove the all the haters from the map. For instance there is no need letting korea live any longer. france will eat them anyway before the critical interturn comes around, so lets get the cities for ourselves.

Babylon is displeased anyway and should also be an easy prey, so why let them live.
 
We should have a few scientific civs around, just to be sure to get Fission.

And I do think that there is some way to get Babylon gracious to us. We haven't done them much harm, have we?
 
Yeah, it's a bit annoying; the three civs I would go for given the chance would be Persia (hates us for taking his towns, very weak, on our continent, and blocking our land route to Korea with spear :gripe:), Babylon (somewhat annoyed with us, on our continent, his towns can be semiproductive), and Korea (currently at war with us, on our continent, lots of towns). All scientific!

So the chance of not getting Fission is (2/3)^s, where s is the number of SCIs that we can talk to on the last turn (including ourselves).
i.e:
s... chance of building a new palace :p
1... 66.67&#37;
2... 44.44%
3... 29.63%
4... 19.75%
5... 13.17%
6... 8.78%
7... 5.85%
8... 3.90%
We have lost one of the nine SCIs so far (Germany).
Although France has taken Korea's second town, Madrid has been recaptured or flipped back to Korea. So they may survive that war yet.
 
yes, the POWERFUL Persia spear is very annoyed!

edit:
let us to make sure for this.
we give Joan tech ar 690AD.(in PB's turnset)
now 15turn passed, but joan don't show any result.
 
Joan is building rifles faster than ships... :rolleyes:

Regular_SG012_paris_860ad.JPG


So I guess she makes a little under 200bpt from her 3 towns, which would give her a research time of ~20 turns on Replaceables (3360 beakers).
I am selling her Sanitation to help her along. I don't think this poses any risk to Darwin.
 
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