SGOTM 12 - Regular

PaperBeetle · Jun 13, 2007

PaperBeetle said:
I am selling her Sanitation to help her along. I don't think this poses any risk to Darwin.

Another PaperBeetle classic of overeager diplomacy. She got Replaceables the next turn. :wallbash:

I bought it for Industry + 2380g.
We have rubber, and Joan does not, but there is some in Korea which will come into her possession eventually (2 tiles from Madrid).

archphoenix · Jun 13, 2007

wish we can sell her corp before she use up the money.

edit:
money is useless under Feud government

PaperBeetle · Jun 13, 2007

I think she has given some of it away to other civs, to start a dogpile on the Koreans, but iirc she has about 2000g left which we can get back for Corp. Mind you, we'll be fine for cash for the rest of the game anyway, so it isn't very important.

Anyway, I'm up to 910ad, but my home PC has suddenly lost interest in connecting to the internet. Very disturbing, but I should be able upload the save and log on my flatmate's machine tonight, otherwise it will be tomorrow morning at work.

From memory, here is what happened...

I finished Pentagon in Constan and built a couple frigates and a couple of arts.
Micro was mainly focused on keeping the worker pumps running; Delhi and Pasar are both merrily making 1-turn workers, and Oporto is doing 2-turn workers. I also tried to squeeze 1-turn pumps into Osaka and Memphis, but both fall 1 shield short. I would suggest we look into making a 1-turner in Tenoch instead, probably running size 12->13. We are going to want to add a lot of workers back to towns quite soon, if we are to hit those beaker targets.

France got Parts just after I sold Sanitation, so I traded Industry for it - the tech is not much use until they get hold of coal anyway. Our troops are now upgraded to infantry, guerilla and artillery.
We are at peace with Arabia and America, but not Korea.
Three ships have headed around to the Mayan west coast ready to ferry troops into England. We also have a fully functional two-way ship chain operating from Delhi to Persepolis, passing by Constan and through Teo, so we should probably start bringing units west to fight in Korea or England.

So on to the big concern; research and Darwin.
We currently have 0 beakers invested, and I think the empire makes 710 or 720 bpt. So we can easily do Steel in 8 turns or Refining in 9 turns. But if we really stretch for it, we might be able to make Steel in 7 or Refining in 8.
Constan has 70 shields in the box, and makes 84spt. There is a worker gang there big enough to clear a flat-land pollution in 1 turn. They would also be handy for putting the brakes on Darwin if we need to delay it by a turn, by irrigating our mines.

The big question is do we go for Steel or Refining? Whichever we choose, we can time Darwin to match the shorter estimate of research time, and then delay it if it becomes clear that we cannot get the tech in time... the goal in this kind of operation is to plan for a shield over-run large enough that pollution will not delay the build but small enough that we can delay it ourselves if we want.

archphoenix · Jun 13, 2007

since we have 70s.
(600-70)/84=6.3
so we will take steel.

this is very subtle.great sentence.
"the goal in this kind of operation is to plan for a shield over-run large enough that pollution will not delay the build but small enough that we can delay it ourselves if we want."

since we have enough food storage, we can just hire scienists instead of work on mined tiles.so hungry for 1 turn is ok.

Kulko · Jun 13, 2007

Hmmm How high are the chances, that France will build Suffrage before we can switch to darwin? I think that would still be the best solution, because we can just overbuild for a turn when we research to slow.

PaperBeetle · Jun 13, 2007

Good point. Joan is not currently building Suffrage (nor even much evidence of hospitals so far, but she only had Sanitation a couple of turns) as she is too busy building rifles to send to Korea.
If she were to decide to try for Suffrage, we would still easily outpace her - she does 39spt, but needs about 50spt to match our speed, plus we already have a turn of shields banked.

PaperBeetle · Jun 13, 2007

Phew, normal internet service is resumed.
Here is the 910 ad save.

And my full log:

Spoiler 840ad to 910ad :

archphoenix · Jun 13, 2007

down the save.
I will play 7 turns or 7+8 turns.
what war will happen in these turnset?
finish korea and go on who?
I enger to join worker into citys which grow slow but produce more commerce like Thebes.

socralynnek · Jun 13, 2007

If we kill Korea, I vote for no other sci civ being killed after that.

So maybe English or America or Arabia.

archphoenix · Jun 14, 2007

last turnset:
we have only war with korea.
we have 63 workers and about 50 slaves.
palace 700s, for 24 citys.
wow, we have 26K golds ,add 1.6k per turn.
worker factory
Delhi: 1 turns worker.(later change at 920AD)
Pasar: 1 turns worker.
Oporto: 2 turns worker.

910AD:
workers build railroad.

920AD
cal the tech, we need 5600 and last turn we impose 728,
(5600-728)/6=812! we need 84 more break per turns.
add 3 workers into osaka for 10 breaks.
add Thebes to 14pops, work all tiles expect 1 commerce, for about 20 breaks.
break Delhi worker factory, add workers to 16pop for 14 breaks.
switch pop in chich to coast for 10 breaks.
etc,etc, finally, arrive 808 break/turn.

inner turn:
France make peace with Arabia.
France begin to build Universal Suffrage.
constantinople make a pollution.

930AD
ship some worker to Rome land.
the Persia spear is very annoyed.

inner turn:
constantinople make a pollution again!

940AD
land 4 artillery on korea "island".

inner turn:
France begin to build Universal Suffrage again.

950AD
worker begin irrigate on Japan and aztec land.

inner turn:
2 persia masket and 1 spear walk into our border.

960AD
4 artillery arrive seoul.

inner turn:
France and ottoman vs American, Otto DOW to American.
persia masket magic jump our land to korea chockpoint.
constantinople make another pollution!

970AD
4 artillery bomb, I know 3 masket fotified(3/4,2/4,2/3), don't how many longbow.
809 break remain, we have 808+3(1scienist), so adjust to 820 to safe the 1 turn.

inner turn:
iroquois and korea make peace.
we finish steel.
we finish TOE, get AT and electronics.start refine in 8 turns.

980AD
2 more artillery arrive seoul.

post play thought:
do we wipe korea out or leave it to France.
I have order 2 galleon near the chockpoint. after korea war, they can aid troops to England if

need.
do we caputure a small town such as carthage and gift it to korea.
constantinople is highly polluted, we should leave the worker gang there.
how do the workers do on india land(almost tiles improvment).
how do the workers do on Japan-aztec land(almost tiles improvment).
I order some ship near viking, if we need war to viking or american.
if we don't war too much, maybe we can dismiss unit in corrupted city to help production.

I leave it to next player or I can play next 8 turns(refine tech)
I will play 20 hour later if no one claim he will pick up.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm12/Regular_SG012_AD0980_01.SAV

Kulko · Jun 14, 2007

I will play tomorrow! I will check the save tonite.

PaperBeetle · Jun 14, 2007

Wow, good going! Honestly I thought the 800bpt average for Steel might be beyond our reach. Now can we pull the same trick with Refining? 6400 beakers needs a 915bpt average to make 7 turns.

It occurs to me that as we have enough to cash to finish the game, we would do better to join slaves to towns, and leave native workers in the field. Goes against all my instincts, but there it is...

Worker pumps are still the best way to produce population, even though they mean having a productive town stuck at size 11 or so... do we still any running?
As for tile improvements, are we switching mines to irrigations yet? Places like Tenoch, Lisbon, Thebes and Bombay, and the Mongol-hittite province will be best served with irrigation. Remember that if they need to build things, we have both the whip and the draft(+disband) to help out.
Kyoto is a special case as I assumed it would be doing the UN prebuild... we'll need to figure out exactly when to start that prebuild. It is worth building a coal plant there if we didn't already.

As for towns, I vote we finish off the Koreans entirely, and maybe the Persians too, and let all other SCIs live. We should try to grab as many towns as we can, but watch out for MPPs! Carthage is unfortunatley MPPed with France, so we should hold off on that one. It's a shame, I was looking greedily at that little nation too

Kulko · Jun 15, 2007

I am against finishing Persia, its one city for one less Sci. I will go for Korea, England and Zulu rather.

Should we also start MPPs or is it to dangerous, in case we are drawn into wars.

Where is our Army? What troops should I use to conquer? I Only found one stack of Arti plus an Army. Is this really enough to wade through hordes of MedInf?

My understanding is, that we want to finish in about 35 turns, So I will start checking Builds, cause I found some things which take 30 turns and longer to finish. Rather build Rersearch there I would assume.

archphoenix · Jun 15, 2007

I wander how to envade, and keep one unit in each city.
but I move the ship to proper site, so you can ship units like knights to envade AIs.

PaperBeetle · Jun 15, 2007

How is Osaka doing? I left it with a huge food surplus but very few shields, and a long way to go on hospital. For a town like that, I figured we would build the hospital using civil engineers, whipping, draft/disbanding, and maybe disbanding units we no longer wanted anyway. The effect is similar to remining to get it done; we just trade happiness for worker turns. Certainly I think we should look for ways to finish important commerce-boosting builds before we give up on them, and set the towns to max food and scientists. Except in the most un-irrigable places (Oporto and Veii?) that means the hospital is a must build, and it needs a market to support it. The more corrupt a town, the more we can afford to skip courthouses, libraries and universities, although it might be worth leaving them building slowly in case we get some spare production available later on. No need to do wealth after all.

Don't be afraid to micro the beaker situation. Particularly if we miss a research target, then we have a whole turn in which we will need a relatively small number of beakers. Just switching our sliders from science to tax is a weak solution! because we don't need cash. Would an extra 10% of lux get more towns into WLtKD? Can we get citizens off water and onto tiles with more food or shields? Do we have scientists who can be reassigned to work the land, or be civil engineers or cops?

Re war... well we have 3 armies available right? They are certainly too powerful just to be occupied in filling up towns. If we get them all to the same place they should be pretty unstoppable (with art support of course). Constan can now get back to producing 1-turn units to bulk up the military.

Wardancer · Jun 15, 2007

Impressive ladies. It looks like you are on for second place!

PaperBeetle · Jun 18, 2007

Well it looks like my cable modem is slowly sinking after all

But never mind, I mostly post from work anyway, and I don't seem to have missed anything over the weekend

Any progress Kulko?

Kulko · Jun 18, 2007

Sorry Guys,

I am drowned in trouble at work and home.

Would like for somebody else to take over.

PaperBeetle · Jun 18, 2007

Tough break Kulko.

socral, are you available to pick the game up? If not, I can probably play later in the week.

Kulko · Jun 19, 2007

Sorry, but by now I am in well over my head, having never really played industrial and never ever played Deity, so every turnset takes hours, because I am afraid of the mistakes. and I just don't have the time for that right now.

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