SGOTM 12 - Regular

[PaperBeetle]

For builds, I would use Constan to produce horses to upgrade, while other towns get their infrastructure up to speed. And Osaka makes population for transferring to Tenoch (but there will be a lot of whip weariness there, so maybe it needs to grow slow for a bit), Teo, Persia and Maya.
We won't be able to afford many horse>knight upgrades, so after a while Constan has to do something else. Trebs maybe? Or even muskets? Or knights at 24spt.

 

[Kulko]

OK Guys, felt ratehr unsure yesterday So I waited for your replies. So right now I have played only 2 turns. Copernicus is ours and we are 1 turn away from banking and France has just developed Printing press.

We are at peace with PErsia, but I liked the War happyness with the other guys too much, as it allows us to run a 100% Science economy. We can give them peace in 8 turns when the Market in Kyoto is finished.

Since France didn't go for banking, do we handle the tech any different?

Also How about bringing Korea up to speed. With their four cities they might develop one more tech for us.

 

[Kulko]

France offers PP, 270 gp and wool. Rome broke out of the containment again, kiling another 2 Dromons in the process, So I reluctantly agreed to give them peace. So right now we could use the extra Happyness from teh Wool, but I am a bit concerned about keeping the trade route open.

We are still at war with america, as I fear that giving them peace will cost us another 10 Percent Lux.

Also I could trade techs for lux to Arabia which would also be interesting.

 

[socralynnek]

For what do they offer that, for Banking?
Hmm, if wool helps us in getting science at 100 %, then it might be worth it, although I don't know where our trade route is.
OTOH, we have Astronomy and thus the trade route should be possible somewhere even if some wars break out.

 

[Kulko]

For banking. And we can run 0%lux without it but at the cost of some entertainers in Delhi and Kyoto

 

[PaperBeetle]

I think the main risk to the trade route is a flip in Persep, as the narrow point in the global trade network is the sea crossing between Azjap and Persia. But as we are now at peace with Persia, maybe even that is no problem.. I'm still a bit hazy on that trading through other people's waters business.
Anyway, I would take the wool trade. Perhaps it is time we sent a ship to explore west of the Incan province? If we still have that dromon fortified near Tiwanaku, watching the Ottomans, he would do nicely. There is maybe a really solid trade route out that way.

Re: Joan's tech.
So the model would guess that after Printing she chose Banking, but again only with a slightly higher probability than a number of other techs.
If she did go Banking, after we sell it to her, she might normally be expected to go Democracy. But in this game, it won't have the government flag set, and being the most expensive tech available, I think it will be deprecated. I would imagine she is going for another optional tech, or a little less likely, Chemistry.

I agree let's bring Wang up to speed, but try to keep any optional techs out of his hands: our best use for him is to try to get Metallurgy for us. It enables his UU after all, so he should have an improved chance of going for it. So maybe only let him catch up when we already have Chemistry, and only bring him up the bottom branch of the tech tree. We could bring him up the bottom branch sooner, but he won't beat us to Chemistry, so the only reason to do so would be if he had a good cash deal that we needed.

 

[Kulko]

Ok Guys, I played 6 turns, but this is an area where I am feeling a bit uncomfortable, so I take this chance and bail out again

I build up 18 Units in India including 6 freshly promoted knights. Our Money is empty now, so we need new trades.

The Iron is still connected in case you find the money to upgrade the last horseman in Con.

I switched Con to Bank which doesn't make sense now that I think about it, but can be taken abck easily. I am also not sure what to start in pasargadae, I think there is a courthouse running, but a uni makes probably more sense. All the important libs are finished.

Kyoto needs 4 turns or 1 whip to finish Market. I vote for the whip, as we loose more in entertainers right nowand slaveas are easily replaced from Osaka.

France developed PP and we traded for 269 gp and Banking. I also gave Banking Edu and Astronomy to Korea for a bit of cash, to send them into the right direction. Hope they are not wasting all the help on gunpowder now.

There are 2 other luxes to have, and France has all the wool in the world, but since I wasn't to sure about the exact trade route with all that fog, I didn't include it in the trade last time.

The netehrlands have Swiss Mercs and the mongols really only swords and Spears.

We are still at war with America, ddn't see a thing of them the whole turnset.

Thats all I remember, since my CIII is a bit usntable, I didn't want to switch windows all the time for a log.



Teno has grown to size 6 and is going to need market soon.

 

[PaperBeetle]

Thank you Kulko. We are back with some clear air between us the rivals on the territory graph. That makes me feel comfortable again.
Mind you, the fact that we have a shallower score graph than the Spooks, and even Zoe and Ivan, means that they have greater populations than us. I think. So I'm pretty sure we're not actually in the lead on techs (especially after not getting Theology free), but we should still be fairly competitive.

 

[Taxpayer'sMoney]

Who's up next? Socral I reckon.

 

[socralynnek]

Not before wednesday.
So, if someone else is there to play, he can happily step in.

 

[socralynnek]

So, I have looked into the save.

We'd need a few more units before we hit the Mongols. We'd ally with the Dutch then, right?

What shall Constantinople do? Bank is probably fine as we probably need a little tax soon. Temple might also be nice if we get some WW in the next war.

I think we can hit the Portuguese soon, we have an army there and the longer we wait, the harder it probably gets.

I hope we get a FP soon, some teams might have that advantage as well.

I am waiting for your input and maybe play this evening or tomorrow.

 

[PaperBeetle]

The Dutch have traditionally distained our suggestions of alliance, but presumably that is mostly because they were trading with the people we were beating on. If we can get their help against the Mongols, we should do so. I'll have to have a look at the lie of the land down there before forming an idea about how the war would progress; the Mongols would have a choice between moving against our Persian holdings, and moving into Holland. Of course, we would want to manouvre them into throwing their forces at Holland instead of Persia.

For Constan, I would recommend to keep building units. We should look to solve our happiness issues with luxury trading (and military police if necessary - after all, the Romans are not to be trusted, so defense at Constan is also useful). As for a bank, if we are in a position where it would pay off financially, then we aren't running enough science. We should somehow get all our cash from the AI. And the bank is also our best prebuild at the moment. I'm going to try to estimate when we will reach Gravity, and when we can start a Newton prebuild. But unless another wonder does come available, I guess we'll only get to use the bank, starting when we are 6 turns away from Gravity.

Now that we have access to Printing, we should make a policy decision about tech tricking. Personally I would use tech trick aggressively the next time we kill someone (Henry I suppose), taking gpt from anyone that we can afford to kill off later.
Mind you, the reason I've been quiet here for a while is that I've been rushing to get my COTM35 submitted. I played diplo of course, and I made sure to use tech trick; in the end I had no trouble getting a vote from Ragnar, from whom I had taken heavy gpt (i.e. more than he could afford) on two earlier occasions. He was only cautious or annoyed at the end, but soon went to gracious when I allied him up against Monty, and gifted him a couple more techs. But then positive attitude is much harder to come by on deity than it is on monarch.

The Portuguese campaign is entirely in your hands I think. Just don't do a PaperBeetle special, arriving at every town with one unit less than you need to capture it.

The next leader builds the FP I guess? Your earlier suggestion of Pasargadae seems sensible. I am hoping that with the reduced number of towns in this game, the FP will feel a bit more like it does in PtW, actually being of some help to those towns nearby. We could think about whipping up courthouses too.

 

[socralynnek]

What about Korea?

Should I gift them all non-optional techs?
What are the chances that they'll actually help?

 

[Kulko]

@ Constan
I agree with PB, we try to run at almost 0 % tax, making the bank noot very worthwhile.

@ techtrick
abstain

@FP
Yes go for it in Pasar

@ Portugal
I admit I have no idea how much units it takes, which was the reason why I stopped playing rather then building more useless Armies on theb wrong continent.

@Kyoto
Don't forget to rush the market there.

@ Mongol
Well ass soon as we see we can handle Henry start shipping units there. I don't believe this guy will be a real bother.

 

[PaperBeetle]

In favour of giving Wang optionals:
- he is then less likely to spend his time researching optionals.

Against giving Wang optionals:
- we don't want to disseminate Printing, because we don't gain anything from the AI trading contacts with each other (although we may want to make some introductions in order to pull tech tricks).
- we want to trade optionals to Wang when he gets an industrial free tech.

I'll have another look at Ambiorix to see how likely it is for Wang to do Metallurgy for us, and how much more likely it would be if we shut off his possibility to research optionals. It is a shame that we brought him some of the way up the top branch though - we should really have left him all the way at Monotheism, and then let him come up to Chemistry.
But anyway, we are where we are, and I suggest if you play tonight, don't give him any more optionals.

 

[socralynnek]

290 AD (0) - Rush amrket in Kyoto.
Switch Con to a 3 turn Knight and MM it to get a little more beakers.
Gift Gunpowder to Kora.

300 AD (1) - Tell the Portugues to leave...they declare. Kill their stack of Spears.

310 AD (2) - Capture Lisbon.

320 AD (3) - Rush Lib in Lisbon.

330 AD (4) - That happens.

France lands some units. We need to gift Thebes away, I fear.
The army is sadly a little away as I moved it closer to the Mongols last turn (but it would not have been in reach anyway)

The Portuguese front looks better:

I'll upload the save.
I probably don't have much time to play this weekend but have much time during next week.
So I propose someone (PaperBeetle?) plays over the weekend and I continue afterwards.

Chemistry is due in 1 turn.

The file:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm12/Regular_SG012_AD0330_01.SAV

 

[Taxpayer'sMoney]

Are those boats next to Perselpolis ours. Can they not reach Thebes?

 

[socralynnek]

Yes, and it is worth a try I guess.
There are two units in a caravel, which probably could reach it. Together with the Knight and the bombarding Dromons that might be enough.
And then signing neighbors vs France it might not damage us too much.

 

[PaperBeetle]

Heh heh, Portugal looks good .

What are the French units? Three knights is a different situation from a knight and two axes. It sounds like we do have enough units to hold the town, but I'll let Offa's seige calculator be the final judge. How close are we to being ready for a dow on the Mongols? We could consider dowing them now and getting France in as allies. Coupled with some units in Thebes, they might consider Mongolian units a better target and not attack us at all - we are currently at peace with Joan right?

 

[socralynnek]

Yeah, we are still at peace.

IIRC it is three knights, but I am not 10% sure.

With our Knight army, we can defend against the Mongols easily if we get the Dutch in too. But we don't have many offensive units there.