SGOTM 12 - Spooks

WackenOpenAir · May 2, 2007

Here is the save, if you can't download this either, i could email it to you.

If i need to mail it to you, send me an email including your mail adress.

If you think you can win a turn, sure go ahead, but only join the workers once you are sure it is gonna work. If it doesn't work, keep the workers for polution cleaning.

killercane · May 2, 2007

Hold on. Let me calculate a bit first.

The horse tile needs to be switched at Madrid if I didnt mention that earlier.

Edit: Ok lets see how it looks in 3 turns. I think we can get to 1650-1700 bpt with growth of 30 citizens and the workers. But we can see when the time comes. The bab town(s) will help a bit but not too much. Maybe we can try to get peace with them for Amsterdam? Unlikely though.

Paul#42 · May 2, 2007

Thanks, the server is up again and I was able to load it down already.

Won't have time to play tonight though but nice to have it :smug:

I'll just have a look and play tomorrow.

Paul#42 · May 3, 2007

killercane said:
The horse tile needs to be switched at Madrid if I didnt mention that earlier.

I'd run through all towns anyway first.

killercane said:
Edit: Ok lets see how it looks in 3 turns. I think we can get to 1650-1700 bpt with growth of 30 citizens and the workers. But we can see when the time comes. The bab town(s) will help a bit but not too much. Maybe we can try to get peace with them for Amsterdam? Unlikely though.

I'll try to convince them :hammer:

Anyone care for slave artilleries? I'd like to disband them for the lib in Shanghai and similar stuff.

We are about to run below unit support (are we already? CA2 won't tell) and won't build much more military in this game - shouldn't we start keeping native workers and rather join slaves? :hmm:

Not much to do for them anyway other than cleaning pollution so not really a gamebreaker I guess... :rolleyes:

WackenOpenAir · May 3, 2007

Ye we are well below unit support, joining slaves first is ok now. I hope CAII doesn't make you forget to look at the civ user interface. Just press F3 for the unit support

Sure disband those trebs.

Paul#42 · May 3, 2007

WackenOpenAir said:
I hope CAII doesn't make you forget to look at the civ user interface. Just press F3 for the unit support

Thanks.

C3C doesn't work @work though :cry:

CA2 runs as analysis software :lol:

Not everybody here earns his money at night playing cards... :rolleyes:

edit: To get combustion in 4 turns, we'd need to do 1600 bpt. Currently we are doing 1305 bpt (just 3 taxmen -> 3 scientists) at max growth.
I see little chance to gain 300 bpt in three turns.

Best gain I see in Consti: Five workers to size 20 => ~24 bpt.
Two Bab's towns (9 + 4) might add 30bpt for a while... => ~54 bpt
Till food excess is used up in some towns (haven't counted yet), 1 pop would generate 3bpt - maybe 30 joins = 90bpt? => ~144 bpt

That's just half the way. :ack:

We can run 0fpt some time or even deficit - how many beakers can we gain that way? :confused:

I will find out later.

I doubt it will be enough but I will try.

I wonder how many beakers we can gain by taking more towns (Mongols?)
To get Flight in 4 we'd need 1800, that's another 200 more than for Combustion... Sounds like ~10 towns to me...
The whole calculation fizzles if we can't get the necessary money - but 50gpt should be available easily...

So right now our research plan looks like this:
Refining - 3 (1300) - 880 AD
AT, El - 0 (ToE) - 880 AD
Comb - 5 (1280) - 930 AD
MP - 4 (1400) - 970 AD
MT - 4 (1400) - 1010 AD
Flight - 5 (1440) - 1060 AD

I'll try to shave a turn off Combustion but I won't count on it...
We'll see in three turns. I plan to have a break then (hopefully tonight) :bounce:

Are we okay with a 1070 AD finish? :hmm:

Paul#42 · May 3, 2007

Played 3 turns so far, ToE built, Refining, At and Electronics researched.
Babylon conquered, Nineveh attack next turn (890 AD).
Then peace, rest and position units (900 AD),
then dow Mongols, ally America, Babs and Persia in (910 AD).

Just to test I MMed to extremes, maximized beakers at cost of growth (without shrinking towns in the next 4 turns) - CA2 tells me 1569 bpt :bounce:

And I did not even join the workers yet :banana:

I'll let the first turn pass and join just enough workers to get Combustion in 4 turns.

I think keeping as many workers as possible is the best strategy :hmm:

Any objections to food deficite research for combustion to keep workers for 12 more turns? :dunno:

Or should I rather join workers (except for pollution forces) and minimize food deficite?

Save 880 AD

WackenOpenAir · May 3, 2007

I first didn't notice you actually said "without shrinking towns".
In this case, you should certainly save the workers and run a food deficit.

You could even starve some citizens if otherwise you would have to join too many workers to have enough remaining for pollution. Just don't starve too many.

killercane · May 3, 2007

Yes this is good. Definitely save the workers then. We should be able to do Flight in 4 turns then when the time comes huh? Surely we will gain enough citizens in the 8 turns from MP-MT?

WackenOpenAir · May 3, 2007

So we are now aiming for 20 or even 19 turns.
This means the UN should also be started earlier.
Start it either immeadiately, or next turn if you want to make a boat first or something.
Delaying it when needed in the future should be no problem.

killercane · May 3, 2007

UN in 16 turns. We need the palace started immediately, for sure. We might want to mine a couple more tiles, but I dont know. Civil engineers work towards the palace right?

How many more towns do we need for the 1000 shield palace?

Edit: we need 6 more in those 16 turns, really less turns than that. 1 bab town, 2 mongol towns, 2 zulu and a German town? Maybe we whip a transport in former Carthage to take the army and other troops there to the Zulu and take a German town by luring their obsolete units into war with Zulu? That would be 6 as well (1 Bab, 1 German, 2 Zulu, 2 Mongol).

Paul#42 · May 4, 2007

Oh, I just realized the save is broken :sad:

Sorry guys, I used to test my uploaded files but it seems I was too credulous this time :ack:

So I don't have the current save @work today which will let me concentrate on earning money - not too bad :rolleyes:

Just to get you some "picture":
There is a nice SoD of Babes right next to empty Babylon - but our rested armies stand at the gates of Nineveh and will have a final strike before we make a cheap peace :hammer:

I played around with engineers on the first three turns to speed some buildings in underdeveloped towns. :crazyeye:

I had thought we would need 31 towns for the 1000s palace? Or is it 32 with our capital? :confused:

With Babylon we got 28, to take Nineveh and 3 Mongol towns should be sufficient. I plan to march right for the towns with our armies and let Persia deal with the counter attack and the spread units. All their units moving one tile per turn we should be able to grab most of their towns uncontested.
Not sure about the resulting flip risks (edit: of the Bab towns) though... :shifty:

killercane · May 4, 2007

Post #1134 by Abe says we need 34 towns. We had 27 at the end of my turns and we added the Bab town. So 6 more if that is right.

Paul#42 · May 4, 2007

I'm done.

One turn to complete Mass Production, then 4 MT and 5 flight - exactly one turnset to go...

Spoiler :

Not sure if the knights' army in Ta-Tu should return to Babylon or head for Karakorum... :dunno:

Some MM for the final turn on Mass Production is done, but the final adjustment still needs to be done. 10% tax is possible. Several Taxmen also :crazyeye:

WackenOpenAir · May 5, 2007

Very nice.
I guess i'm up now.
The weekend is a bit busy. I think i will have time to play sunday night.

I'll see if flight can be done in 4.

killercane · May 5, 2007

It looks good. Very nice work on the Mongols. Wont the former Bab city autoraze though?

We can switch a lot of tiles/specialists to growth now, and in 4 turns Im pretty sure we can attain Flight in 4. The Paris build looks fine. Looks like we are all set to finish up.

Abegweit · May 5, 2007

Looks good. I like the look of the territory and score graphs.

Agree with KC that some MM is needed. Also consider the opposite: stopping growth and getting more specialists, especially if the choice is working a sea tile. The ROI on growth is getting pretty low at this point.

Note that the Palace still costs 900 shields and that we actually have 31 cities.

Paul#42 · May 5, 2007

killercane said:
Wont the former Bab city autoraze though?

It has (Babylonian) culture. No matter of which civ.

I doubt that we will reach 1.800 bpt, but I had not thought that we could get 1.600 bpt either. :rolleyes:

This time we can even starve our cities so it should be possible.

Abegweit said:
Note that the Palace still costs 900 shields and that we actually have 31 cities.

I had thought the palace was growing in steps of 200s. :blush:

So we need further acquisitions :hammer:

.
As usual Paul did not prepare ferries... :wallbash:

killercane · May 5, 2007

Well 900 will work, we just have to manage to get the thing to 899 going into the final turn, and switch scientists to engineers to amass 101 shields.

Abegweit · May 5, 2007

killercane said:
Well 900 will work, we just have to manage to get the thing to 899 going into the final turn, and switch scientists to engineers to amass 101 shields.

We should be able to get up to 34 cities before the magical moment. But yeah. Your point is valid. I haven't crunched the numbers. I'm sure Wacken will.

SGOTM 12 - Spooks

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