SGOTM 12 - Spooks

[WackenOpenAir]

Sounds good.

We can complete this game in one more week if we want to

With Klarius 40 turns ahead of us, 9 turns after our expected finish, we should have very good chances to win.

Only team Regular seems dangerous in the QSC and graphs. At this speed, they won't finish in 2007 though. And if they do, they should have enough opportunity to screw up while trying to finish the game in a hurry

 

[killercane]

I will tackle this tonight.

 

[killercane]

Ok I played until 820, one turn from Steel. The turns are a bit boring so I will take it up tomorrow.

The long and the short of it: not much to tell. Babylon has attacked, and we should try to get peace with them soon before they do something silly. Carthage is gone. Most city improvements are built, Sparta is ready to go.

Preturn
Demand a bunch from Carthage; then request they leave our territory. They declare war on us. We kill all their nearby units and their units on resources.

Begin mining by Paris.

Turn 1
Renew the dyes deal with Sumeria.

Take Shanghai, no losses at all so far in the war. Rep parts to Russia for 20 gold. Industry to Persia for 26 gold.

Turn 2
Not much just moving workers around. Run civil engineers in Paris to save a turn on the coal plant.

Turn 3
Corp. comes in, set to Steel in 5. Take Beijing, no losses yet.

Change all taxmen to scientists.

Turn 4
Take Utica. Lose an MDI on an errant NM. Workers working, not much to do except watch science. Korea has units near our town but in their territory.

Turn 5
Babylon lands by Thebes! We draft a couple of infantry and eliminate them after they declare on us.

Still working on.

Turn 6
We destroy Carthage. Not much to report. Where are the troops going now? They are loaded on the boats except for one army, and they can heal on the way.

Turn 7
Most troops are unmoved. There are barbs coming from the south of Sparta.

 

[Andronicus]

Could Babs ally Persians?
Can we ensure they dont?

edit
It appears Klarius had not finished - they have just submitted another turn

 

[Paul#42]

Turn 6
We destroy Carthage. Not much to report. Where are the troops going now?

Quick work on Carthaginians!
The diplomatic table is finally becoming concise

warfare
Next target might be Zulus. Our ships can reach their shores in three turns.
If we dow now and ally Germany, the crappy stuff might be cleared when we arrive.

Trades
Americans are willing to pay 13gpt, 20g for Medicine. We could cancel the lux trade taht is running out now and try to get those 11gpt for Medicine also.
edit: That would give us opportunity to attack them earlier.
Ottomen offer 17gpt, 25g for The Corporation.

We should gift some luxuries to Persia. That makes them more expensive to bribe against us. How about a trade embargo with Persia against Babs? Does that cost us rep points?

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Zulu sounds good to me. America after that i think. We should then make Persia larger to make sure they are gonna be our UN competition.

I don't think we should build workers in orleans, why not just make wealth and grow scientists. Also, please try to maintain maximum growth in all cities. Join in workers to stop unit support rather than using taxmen.

Osaka granary is the first that can be sold.

 

[Andronicus]

We can complete this game in one more week if we want to

... or maybe not


Had a look at save

that galley with 4 workers near Thebes is at risk to the Bab frigate, but I dont think there is anything we can do about it

I see 3 options regarding Babs
1) tough it out and get peace at first avail opportunity (gifting lux to Persia and other trading partners should reduce probability of Babs bribing them into trade embargo or worse, a MA against us)
2) ally Persia and let them hold off Babs - risks prolonging war. Could get MA with tech.
3) go on the offensive. We have galleons that can unload armies next to Babylon next turn (the 2 armies already loaded plus the 12/14 MDI army as well as the 4 eMDI already loaded). From there only a short hop to Nineveh. This would put our armies in position to go to America.
Taking Bab's 2 cities would not harm us diplomatically as it was Bab which dowed us. They will still vote for us later if we leave them with Amsterdam. This option is likely to get peace soonest as nothing like losing 2 major cities to get AI to peace talks.

edit
Currently Persia owes us 14gpt - we dont want Babs bribing them into breaking this so need to give them some incentive to stay friendly - furs, wool and ivory might do the trick. Another consideration is rop which usually improves AI relations.

 

[Paul#42]

... or maybe not

We obviously enjoy this game too much...

I like the idea to hurt Babs a little. Without any alliance, just to get them back to peace. This might set an example for other friends...
I'd even settle with one of their two towns. That however will likely flip after a few turns.

What also crossed my mind last night :
At least for the final turn of this game we will need embassies with every civ except our opponent. So whenever we can spare some gold and want to have a look at our friends' capitals, we should establish an embassy there.
Of course we will have that money easier available towards the end when unit support will be gone...

 

[Andronicus]

That however will likely flip after a few turns.

How so?
The Byzantines are the worlds cultural leaders

 

[Paul#42]

How so?
The Byzantines are the worlds cultural leaders

But the Babe-towns do have quite some babylonian culture (won't get byzantinian culture for a while) and are way closer to their capital then to ours. Especially if we take only one town and the cultural borders overlap.
And the population will probably remain Babes and they might be angry...

Flip probability won't exceed Orleans' back when Paris was French but I doubt if we'll be as lucky as we were back then...
At least I won't rely on it.

 

[Andronicus]

But the Babe-towns do have quite some babylonian culture (won't get byzantinian culture for a while) and are way closer to their capital then to ours. Especially if we take only one town and the cultural borders overlap.
And the population will probably remain Babes and they might be angry...

Flip probability won't exceed Orleans' back when Paris was French but I doubt if we'll be as lucky as we were back then...
At least I won't rely on it.

Guess we should take both then - Amsterdam would then be a little distance away

 

[killercane]

So work to get the Babs down to just 1-2 towns?

Also:

Gift Persians
Mass worker add in to get to 1280 beakers

We might also want to get a few towns extra over the 1000 shield palace limit for insurance purposes.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Just go ahead and keep conquering

It seems to me that from here, we only need workers for polution cleaning. For that, i would keep 6 on each of the major islands containing metros. Southland, France, Japtec, India. 3 each on Egypt, Spain and Trontheim. Makes 33 total.

We have some 40 slaves, counting for 20 of those. We just need around 13 real workers. Means we have 40 + const production to join in.

Join Sparta and Athens to 1 turn growth. I'd stop using all those shield tiles in madrid and make it grow. Population for drafting makes more production than the raw shields can. Barca can also draft for Madrid. We can't affort a hospital in both.
Barca itself needs only a marketplace and can stay at size 12. After you completed the hospital in madrid and market in Barca, i'd say you can join in all a bunch of those workers there.

PyongYang needs a library instead of granary. It also may need one more tile worked then if we get it from Korea. It's population can come purely from joining.

And just keep conquering some
Zulus, Americans are certainly good choises, and if those babs really want to lose some towns, why not?

 

[killercane]

Join Sparta and Athens to 1 turn growth. I'd stop using all those shield tiles in madrid and make it grow. Population for drafting makes more production than the raw shields can. Barca can also draft for Madrid. We can't affort a hospital in both.
Barca itself needs only a marketplace and can stay at size 12. After you completed the hospital in madrid and market in Barca, i'd say you can join in all a bunch of those workers there.

Madrid just grew, I didnt put anybody on those shield tiles . And Barca doesnt need a market if it isnt gonna be size 13+.

But anyhoo, it is done. There is nothing much to report. We are in Babylon land, and poised to take a city. I say just one since they have rifles. Then hopefully we can get a quick peace deal.

The frigate indeed killed our galleon. I simply did not see it come into range; another frigate was guarding the Bab galley that brought the two troops that landed and I thought that was the same one.

ToE will complete at the right time. Paris is overshielded really, and we can afford some pollution so that shouldnt screw up the build.

You will notice that Constantinople is size 14. We have no ships there to ship the workers . So it is just growing. Most Japtec cities are at their growth limit. It still would be nice to get some more workers from there though, but only if we can ship them somewhere needed. A galleon from Portugal is headed there if we want to go back to workers. Just be sure to keep the citizen off the hill tile.

The southern continent is doing ok. It can still use some worker turns to irrigate. If something is only producing 1 food or like in Sparta can still grow in the same amount of turns (2) then it gets a scientist rather than a citizen working.

I think that is about it. We are on schedule, but we do need some more growth. As of right now, we are at 1296 beakers. We could instantly go to 1400 I think right now if we turned citizens to scientists, and if we add more workers, we can get to 1500 in very few turns. I see no way to get to 1600 for 4 turn Combustion. We need 100 more citizens/workers.

 

[killercane]

Well if we turn most citizens to scientists where we can and maximize science, we get to ~1400 beakers. We have 50 workers or so to add in, which is 150 more. With the next 3 turns of growth if we want we can do Combustion in just about 4 turns. Bab towns and whoever else we conquer will add to this.

If we were to do that, we would be saying to heck with pollution but I dont think it will matter. Really we should have done this to get Refining in 4. But oh well, it is too late. Please discuss.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Nice.

50 workers won't make 150 science.
1 scientist takes 2 citizens. 1 to make the food, 1 to make the beakers.

We are planning to get there in 21 turns from now.
Paris is at 72 spt. I think we should take 15 turns for the UN. (15 * 72 = 1080, leaving 80 to be lost on polution)
So Paris will have a 3 turn break after ToE. Produce anything you like in those 3 turns.

I don't really see much to discuss.
I think Paul can just go and do the next 10.

 

[Paul#42]

I don't really see much to discuss.
I think Paul can just go and do the next 10.

Who, me?


Our empire seems to be in great shape.
I'm not too happy though with the recent luxury trades with America
However I see the need to keep them friendly...

I guess I'll have to stay with the Babes for now...
Or pay a visit to the Mongols? Together with our Persian and Babylonian friends?

4-5 towns to go to 31, right?

 

[killercane]

Yes good that you mentioned that I thought I included it. There is indeed a trade with America. We are kind of crunched for gold and I dont think we need to eliminate them anyway. We have the Mongols to lunch on after Babs, as well as Celts, Zulu, England, whoever. I think America will provide quality gpt the rest of the game and they like us dont they? Persia is a concern as I gifted them and they still dont like us. We also need some workers shipped to Thebes.

Sure the workers will make 150 science. We just have to find a place to put them.

 

[killercane]

Nice.

50 workers won't make 150 science.
1 scientist takes 2 citizens. 1 to make the food, 1 to make the beakers.

We are planning to get there in 21 turns from now.
Paris is at 72 spt. I think we should take 15 turns for the UN. (15 * 72 = 1080, leaving 80 to be lost on polution)
So Paris will have a 3 turn break after ToE. Produce anything you like in those 3 turns.

I don't really see much to discuss.
I think Paul can just go and do the next 10.

Paris can also use engineers if pollution screws it up a bit. I really think we can come close to Combustion in 4, and there is little risk. A saved turn can be huge. We need to figure out how many citizens we can get in the next few turns.

 

[Paul#42]

I wanted to play but the server is down

At work I already got the save - would my lady be annoyed if I went for work now at 11 pm?

Maybe tomorrow