Yamps
Deity
^
hmmm...or if you think we should proceed differently/wait for more input, please say!
hmmm...or if you think we should proceed differently/wait for more input, please say!
SGOTM 12 - Unusual Suspects
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
^ no, I was saying same as you:
kcd play 3 turns to tech alphabet
explore NW
sent chariot W asap without slowing a couple turns to see south coast (maybe send boat there later)
stuff like that
I'm pretty busy at the moment, so would prefer if kcd gets to it (maybe too late already though).
kcd play 3 turns to tech alphabet
explore NW
sent chariot W asap without slowing a couple turns to see south coast (maybe send boat there later)
stuff like that
I'm pretty busy at the moment, so would prefer if kcd gets to it (maybe too late already though).
OK... I'm going to run those 3 turns now. Don't anybody else move anything! (But of course I know that the last thing anybody does before they play is check in here to make sure there aren't any, so this shouldn't be a problem.)
Back in a half hour or so.
Back in a half hour or so.
^ Excellent!
thanks for the warning
I will review the new save, all posts, and post a new PPP on Friday.
thanks for the warning
Spoiler :
Here is your Session Turn Log from 1200 BC to 1080 BC:
autolog:
Screenshot tech screen:
View attachment 268651
Comments:
Agreed with Yamps that archer was out of the way on that forst hill, so I moved him SE. DG had brought his settler back north next to Paris and took 2 archer with it, and had a worker out on the forest to chop it. All got scared away when I moved to the hill. The settler is back in Orleans (with 1 cgArch + 1 up=unpromoted arch + 1 up warr). The worker is out of sight but I think he went northwest towards the pigs, which seems like a decidedly un-useful place to go... but that's automated workers for ya.
Now in Paris is 2cgArch + 2 drArch. And west of Paris (1N from our archer) is C1Arch + upArch.
I checked each AI again for Peace deals: What would make this work? always yields KCD city as the only thing. We have 3 techs that some might take for peace if we offer that ourselves, but there is no way to do so without executing the trade if accepted, and I didn't have a mandate to try that. My guess is it won't work. Note, as you see in the tech screen, nobody (excl Ghandi) has writing yet, and writing isn't big enough by itself, most likely.
I notice something very weird on the interface... Roosi and Mao are in WHEOOHRN. I thought all the AI would be in such a state because of their war with us, but its only those two. I'm guessing that they need to know another AI before the option to deny because of WHEOOHRN exists, and that's why we see in now on only those two. I don't think they are planning war on each other, as fun as that might be.
Also weird is that the logs say that Roosi and Stalin have contact... I don't see that on the relations screen... but maybe I'm just going senile.
worker in the queue, 2 turns left. Borders popped in KCD. Note to Deckhand... check the micro, the cottage will finish now and then capitol can give over the fish (or not, if we want to speed settler).
I saved with all unit movements remaining (all standing waiting for manual commands), so please show extra care when you open the save, guys. Its uploaded, btw.
Spoiler :
autolog:
Spoiler :
Screenshot tech screen:
View attachment 268651
Comments:
Agreed with Yamps that archer was out of the way on that forst hill, so I moved him SE. DG had brought his settler back north next to Paris and took 2 archer with it, and had a worker out on the forest to chop it. All got scared away when I moved to the hill. The settler is back in Orleans (with 1 cgArch + 1 up=unpromoted arch + 1 up warr). The worker is out of sight but I think he went northwest towards the pigs, which seems like a decidedly un-useful place to go... but that's automated workers for ya.
Now in Paris is 2cgArch + 2 drArch. And west of Paris (1N from our archer) is C1Arch + upArch.
I checked each AI again for Peace deals: What would make this work? always yields KCD city as the only thing. We have 3 techs that some might take for peace if we offer that ourselves, but there is no way to do so without executing the trade if accepted, and I didn't have a mandate to try that. My guess is it won't work. Note, as you see in the tech screen, nobody (excl Ghandi) has writing yet, and writing isn't big enough by itself, most likely.
I notice something very weird on the interface... Roosi and Mao are in WHEOOHRN. I thought all the AI would be in such a state because of their war with us, but its only those two. I'm guessing that they need to know another AI before the option to deny because of WHEOOHRN exists, and that's why we see in now on only those two. I don't think they are planning war on each other, as fun as that might be.
Also weird is that the logs say that Roosi and Stalin have contact... I don't see that on the relations screen... but maybe I'm just going senile.
worker in the queue, 2 turns left. Borders popped in KCD. Note to Deckhand... check the micro, the cottage will finish now and then capitol can give over the fish (or not, if we want to speed settler).
I saved with all unit movements remaining (all standing waiting for manual commands), so please show extra care when you open the save, guys. Its uploaded, btw.
Random thoughts:
If that really is the same French settler I saw previously, then the AI is having a real hard time adjusting to the SG12_Buffy mod restrictions on settling. It looks for the best spot it can settle... and doesn't look under the fallout: it doesn't realize that the best spot is the one that needs to be cleared of fallout first.
This could mean that the game will play a lot EASIER than a normal Emperor level game. The AI can't REX, and they are all chasing military techs because they are at war with an opponent (us) --- who can't even reach them.
However, there is nothing that says that all of the landmasses are as FO-blasted as ours is. But if they are, we should really just cap everyone as soon as possible into lousy 1-city empires, and do an "always peace-a" game to launch. Kill Stalin along the way with marines against his puny grens.
Or maybe DeGaulle is just stupider than most. (Or maybe that's really his 3rd settler and I'm just kidding myself).
If that really is the same French settler I saw previously, then the AI is having a real hard time adjusting to the SG12_Buffy mod restrictions on settling. It looks for the best spot it can settle... and doesn't look under the fallout: it doesn't realize that the best spot is the one that needs to be cleared of fallout first.
This could mean that the game will play a lot EASIER than a normal Emperor level game. The AI can't REX, and they are all chasing military techs because they are at war with an opponent (us) --- who can't even reach them.
However, there is nothing that says that all of the landmasses are as FO-blasted as ours is. But if they are, we should really just cap everyone as soon as possible into lousy 1-city empires, and do an "always peace-a" game to launch. Kill Stalin along the way with marines against his puny grens.
Or maybe DeGaulle is just stupider than most. (Or maybe that's really his 3rd settler and I'm just kidding myself).
Yamps
Deity
@Deckhand
It had occurred to me that I might have pushed for play too soon...
It was just a matter of the capital build and kcd_swede knew best where De Gaulle's units were so it seemed best just to go for it.
In any case, nicely done Kcd with the French operations!
For the continuation, I think our PPP will become less exact from this point. More general descriptions and goals with more specific details for the active player to decide while playing.
It had occurred to me that I might have pushed for play too soon...
It was just a matter of the capital build and kcd_swede knew best where De Gaulle's units were so it seemed best just to go for it.In any case, nicely done Kcd with the French operations!
For the continuation, I think our PPP will become less exact from this point. More general descriptions and goals with more specific details for the active player to decide while playing.
Yamps
Deity
I've just realized, there's a huge problem regarding that pig city! The city won't get connected to other cities and it won't get the health bonuses. We are at war with the French and even if we weren't, I think that the coast has to be explored to get the trade route by sea. (This has to be checked) Could the city starve to zero? 
That's sth to test.
It's important to settle that spot asap for the pigs, but it will take some time to build roads. We could consider skipping the spot and going for the marble immediately, but that city is too important imo. We could build the Parthenon and MoM there and we could also invade De Gaulle at some point.
EDIT:
Did some reading, I'm fairly certain that we have to explore the coast first to get the connection. War with De Gaulle doesn't matter. The alternative is to build a road:
There's no need to improve the second elephant. It's only 12 turns for the Library, the point of this city is to hire 2 scientists asap. When those 2 workers build the road to get the elephant connected, they are free to join the other 2 in this task. It's 26 worker turns to get the road done: 8 for road building and 18 to clear fallout. I don't know by heart how much time does it take to build a camp, there are some ~10 worker turns left for the elephant tile. I'm guessing some 10 turns of work for the 4 workers to get this done. Do we want a settler before that? The city would have more negative food from
than positive surplus, I've never seen sth like that.
We should probably build the 5th worker right now to speed this up. We'll have to improve the plains mine too for the late GLH. When the elephant is improved and connected, the capital should grow to size 7. Growing to size 7 could be a good time to build the lighthouse and to put a few hammers for the GLH. At some point, we could use some protection for that horde of workers. De Gaulle has Sailing and maybe some archer slipped our chariot by land. KCD city is unprotected as well, but that side seems safe for now.
Another observation, KCD city doesn't really have to grow past size 3 to hire 2 scientist: just cows + city tile are 6 food, just enough. (that's assuming no negative food from fallout!) This means that the capital could take the fish back for worker/settler building at size 7. EDIT: OTOH, the capital will have to work the plains mine for the GLH and KCD city wil have that nice elephant tile to work. It might be best to grow to size 5, using the phant, cows, fish and 2 scientists. The idea would be to build a settler there for the marble spot while the capital is busy with the GLH.
That's sth to test. It's important to settle that spot asap for the pigs, but it will take some time to build roads. We could consider skipping the spot and going for the marble immediately, but that city is too important imo. We could build the Parthenon and MoM there and we could also invade De Gaulle at some point.
EDIT:
Did some reading, I'm fairly certain that we have to explore the coast first to get the connection. War with De Gaulle doesn't matter. The alternative is to build a road:
Spoiler :
There's no need to improve the second elephant. It's only 12 turns for the Library, the point of this city is to hire 2 scientists asap. When those 2 workers build the road to get the elephant connected, they are free to join the other 2 in this task. It's 26 worker turns to get the road done: 8 for road building and 18 to clear fallout. I don't know by heart how much time does it take to build a camp, there are some ~10 worker turns left for the elephant tile. I'm guessing some 10 turns of work for the 4 workers to get this done. Do we want a settler before that? The city would have more negative food from
than positive surplus, I've never seen sth like that. We should probably build the 5th worker right now to speed this up. We'll have to improve the plains mine too for the late GLH. When the elephant is improved and connected, the capital should grow to size 7. Growing to size 7 could be a good time to build the lighthouse and to put a few hammers for the GLH. At some point, we could use some protection for that horde of workers. De Gaulle has Sailing and maybe some archer slipped our chariot by land. KCD city is unprotected as well, but that side seems safe for now.
Another observation, KCD city doesn't really have to grow past size 3 to hire 2 scientist: just cows + city tile are 6 food, just enough. (that's assuming no negative food from fallout!) This means that the capital could take the fish back for worker/settler building at size 7. EDIT: OTOH, the capital will have to work the plains mine for the GLH and KCD city wil have that nice elephant tile to work. It might be best to grow to size 5, using the phant, cows, fish and 2 scientists. The idea would be to build a settler there for the marble spot while the capital is busy with the GLH.
Indiansmoke
Deity
OK some random thoughts, but first 
ex captain!
1. we will have to road pig city but it is very importnat to not lose that spot, so even if it stays pop one for many turns it does not matter.
2. GLH will be huge lets try to get it.
3. Churchil will trade iron working so if we give him writting, agriculture & AH he will accept peace and then we can trade? there might be iron around capital to help with hammers.
4. Marble city can wait abit IMO noone is taking the tundra from us, lets go for pig city and then GLH
5. French capital is nice, it should become ours at some point!!
6. We must settle the islands. This will double our trade route income even without ai open border and our culture will propably allow our galleys to go even further.
7. Tech, what is the plan? I say masonry for GLH and then straight for CoL and CS. We have enough happy so no need for monarchy yet.
ex captain!1. we will have to road pig city but it is very importnat to not lose that spot, so even if it stays pop one for many turns it does not matter.
2. GLH will be huge lets try to get it.
3. Churchil will trade iron working so if we give him writting, agriculture & AH he will accept peace and then we can trade? there might be iron around capital to help with hammers.
4. Marble city can wait abit IMO noone is taking the tundra from us, lets go for pig city and then GLH
5. French capital is nice, it should become ours at some point!!
6. We must settle the islands. This will double our trade route income even without ai open border and our culture will propably allow our galleys to go even further.
7. Tech, what is the plan? I say masonry for GLH and then straight for CoL and CS. We have enough happy so no need for monarchy yet.
Indiansmoke
Deity
Oups double post
more concurrences and some questions
OK some random thoughts, but first
1. we will have to road pig city but it is very importnat to not lose that spot, so even if it stays pop one for many turns it does not matter.
Do we have to clear fallout to build roads (ref yamps post above)?
Is the Red Line enough?
i.e. road only to river, roads not needed on other 2 tiles
2. GLH will be huge lets try to get it.
NJ build 0) worker,1) settler ; 2) GLH (grow to 7, work two cottages)Spoiler :
KASHCOWS grow to five (per above) build military and workers/settler while GLH being built
if this is the plan, build barracks first?
3. Churchil will trade iron working so if we give him writting, agriculture & AH he will accept peace and then we can trade? there might be iron around capital to help with hammers.
No "Can't Trade" techs = AIs don't have any fancy future techs like ecology?
Generally, I should make peace with any AIs except D'G, for whatever techs they want?
We could get peace by building crap cities and trading them, but a) we can't spare the hammers now, and b) we really don't want them on our continent.
4. Marble city can wait abit IMO noone is taking the tundra from us, lets go for pig city and then GLH
Right. We want it founded and marble hooked up when we discover Literature.
5. French capital is nice, it should become ours at some point!!
6. We must settle the islands. This will double our trade route income even without ai open border and our culture will propably allow our galleys to go even further.
7. Tech, what is the plan? I say masonry for GLH and then straight for CoL and CS. We have enough happy so no need for monarchy yet.
Yes, workers can't make any improvement on fallout.
The river is not inside our culture borders at the end of the red line... I don't know if this hooks up trade route or not.
Test needed to see if a city can autoraze by starvation. Not sure... Capitol did not have unhealth until 2pop, but had forests. Pig city has fresh water to compensate. I think it will be OK (no fallout on water). But test needed.
Worker in progress finishes in 2t.
18t to clear fallout does not include the movements: 3t per worker that will have to move onto the fallouts to clear them. With 2 workers in concert, thats another 6 worler turns for the road.
We cannot see the techs they cannot trade until we have the pre-req's to those techs. We know they have nationalism and representation etc, after all, just by their civics. Beware... DG can not only whip now, he can draft!
Paris makes at least 8 culture per turn. Pig City will make 2 per turn at start. We kill Paris or lose that city. I vote kill Paris.
Masonry is good. The Pre-req bonus for Myst first is so trifling small we don't care about it.
I was moving chariot to corn... its no FO tile, and that's where we'll find contacts if there are any to find, probably.
WB should go south to the coast... we don't spare the time to build another one. Too much else to do. The few tiles in the north that it can still defog are not worth the extra turns.
Marble only needed at Liturature. We have time.
If test is OK, clear city site and settle asap, do the road later. And put a unit in that city... if DG has no galley yet, he will whip one out if he sees an ungarrisoned enemy city.
Lets try for GLH. Nobody is cranking out wonders... all making settlers that can't settle and archers to protect from enemies who don't even know where they are. (And the cash will keep the slider up if we fail...
)
Make offers of tech for peace (there is nothing we can't give away at this point). See if anyone bites. I doubt it, but maybe. Watch if they get writing, and try again with alphabet offers.
Islands look pretty crappy. I think it will be a while before we settle them. But we'll see.
Coast in the north is blocked by ice, and we don't know how far the coast goes to the south. Road is the fastest way to connect.
Perhaps it is faster than road to get the rice online? That would give the local city health. Trade route isn't so much yet.
finish worker>Chariot?>settler>LH>GLH ?
Are we whipping anything? Probably not.
The river is not inside our culture borders at the end of the red line... I don't know if this hooks up trade route or not.
Test needed to see if a city can autoraze by starvation. Not sure... Capitol did not have unhealth until 2pop, but had forests. Pig city has fresh water to compensate. I think it will be OK (no fallout on water). But test needed.
Worker in progress finishes in 2t.
18t to clear fallout does not include the movements: 3t per worker that will have to move onto the fallouts to clear them. With 2 workers in concert, thats another 6 worler turns for the road.
We cannot see the techs they cannot trade until we have the pre-req's to those techs. We know they have nationalism and representation etc, after all, just by their civics. Beware... DG can not only whip now, he can draft!
Paris makes at least 8 culture per turn. Pig City will make 2 per turn at start. We kill Paris or lose that city. I vote kill Paris.
Masonry is good. The Pre-req bonus for Myst first is so trifling small we don't care about it.
I was moving chariot to corn... its no FO tile, and that's where we'll find contacts if there are any to find, probably.
WB should go south to the coast... we don't spare the time to build another one. Too much else to do. The few tiles in the north that it can still defog are not worth the extra turns.
Marble only needed at Liturature. We have time.
If test is OK, clear city site and settle asap, do the road later. And put a unit in that city... if DG has no galley yet, he will whip one out if he sees an ungarrisoned enemy city.
Lets try for GLH. Nobody is cranking out wonders... all making settlers that can't settle and archers to protect from enemies who don't even know where they are. (And the cash will keep the slider up if we fail...
)Make offers of tech for peace (there is nothing we can't give away at this point). See if anyone bites. I doubt it, but maybe. Watch if they get writing, and try again with alphabet offers.
Islands look pretty crappy. I think it will be a while before we settle them. But we'll see.
Coast in the north is blocked by ice, and we don't know how far the coast goes to the south. Road is the fastest way to connect.
Perhaps it is faster than road to get the rice online? That would give the local city health. Trade route isn't so much yet.
finish worker>Chariot?>settler>LH>GLH ?
Are we whipping anything? Probably not.
Indiansmoke
Deity
Workers can make roads on fallout as normal in 2 turns.
The land we have is very good, lots of food and green tiles, calendar resources, perfect for teching fast. Stone south, marble north, furs, gems silver..just seems too good to be true.
Expanding fast will be the challenge here and lots of workers needed for that.
I am starting to dought TGLH and thinking about pure Rexing here. worker settler spam...
The land we have is very good, lots of food and green tiles, calendar resources, perfect for teching fast. Stone south, marble north, furs, gems silver..just seems too good to be true.
Expanding fast will be the challenge here and lots of workers needed for that.
I am starting to dought TGLH and thinking about pure Rexing here. worker settler spam...
Since we have team consensus, I will go ahead and play tonight. No PPP needed.
Spoiler :
Yamps
Deity
Some comments:
Have you tested with this mod about the roads? That's somewhat unexpected, for the roads to work on fallout.
The forest tile is adjacent to the river and we have Sailing, the connection should work.
It's tile culture that matters, there's a special calculation for that. (It's in the War Academy). The most important thing is the extra bonus to tiles that are not in the final ring of expansion. De Gaulle is not getting that for the tile and we'll get it after the first expansion.
About the techs, I'm thinking Math next. Math is needed for Currency, Calendar and CS as well. We'll have to gift two tech to the AI: one to sign peace and the other one to get them out of worst enemy status to enable trade. We can't do anything until they get Writing. The plan would than be to gift Math for peace and Alpha for free. (Alpha is worth more for attitude) We might get peace with Churchill now, but there's some risk to it. He could go for Alpha or Math too soon, messing our plans with the other AI if he meets them.
Mysticism and Masonry are techs we can get very fast, it's just a matter of timing with city builds. We should be fine with Math->Mysticism->Masonry. After that there's a decision point, maybe we'll want Calendar or Aesthetics for Parthenon next.
About the GLH, if we sustain De Gaulle it doesn't seem we're land pressed. This means that controlled expansion would work best, rather than a more aggressive one. No need to crash our economy if we're not really pressed for land. Getting some hammers into the GLH to discourage the (cheating) AI to go after it seems like a good bet to try.
Have you tested with this mod about the roads? That's somewhat unexpected, for the roads to work on fallout.
The forest tile is adjacent to the river and we have Sailing, the connection should work.
Paris makes at least 8 culture per turn. Pig City will make 2 per turn at start. We kill Paris or lose that city. I vote kill Paris.
It's tile culture that matters, there's a special calculation for that. (It's in the War Academy). The most important thing is the extra bonus to tiles that are not in the final ring of expansion. De Gaulle is not getting that for the tile and we'll get it after the first expansion.
About the techs, I'm thinking Math next. Math is needed for Currency, Calendar and CS as well. We'll have to gift two tech to the AI: one to sign peace and the other one to get them out of worst enemy status to enable trade. We can't do anything until they get Writing. The plan would than be to gift Math for peace and Alpha for free. (Alpha is worth more for attitude) We might get peace with Churchill now, but there's some risk to it. He could go for Alpha or Math too soon, messing our plans with the other AI if he meets them.
Mysticism and Masonry are techs we can get very fast, it's just a matter of timing with city builds. We should be fine with Math->Mysticism->Masonry. After that there's a decision point, maybe we'll want Calendar or Aesthetics for Parthenon next.
About the GLH, if we sustain De Gaulle it doesn't seem we're land pressed. This means that controlled expansion would work best, rather than a more aggressive one. No need to crash our economy if we're not really pressed for land. Getting some hammers into the GLH to discourage the (cheating) AI to go after it seems like a good bet to try.
So, generally it is best to make peace with all AIs at the same time and give them the same techs.
They really hate us and I am skeptical we will come off the worst enemy list for most of them.
Spoiler :
Do I understand: we want math first because the AI will grant peace for it?
Perhaps go for quality cities instead of quantity at this time. Identify the locations that will grow into super science or mighty production centers and start them soon.
Didn't we decide not base strategy on speculation?
If we want fail gold, shouldn't we hook up stone or marble and build something else? We need to decide if we want the giant candle or not.
Yamps
Deity
I've just tested it, indeed we can build roads on fallout! Also, the city won't starve to zero even with negative surplus. (that was expected, but test worthy still)
@Deckhand
Alpha worked for peace in tests, haven't tried math though. With peace signed, we're at -5 with the AI. Tech gifting can get +4 max, we'll get them to Cautious sooner or later. Note the time matter I've mentioned before, the sooner we gift the more we get for the same tech. (accumulated gift value/turns we have contact)
It's not speculation, I'm talking about that bug/AI cheat with wonders. We could invest some hammers immediately before we commit to the wonder with full production, keeping them off for a while until we're ready to build it.
Another thing I forgot to mention, the second cottage will have to wait. Note that it can't go to the river tile anyway, that would prevent irrigation to the rice. We'll need the plains mine first for the GLH.
-----------
Okay, since we can road the fallout and the pig city can live at size 1 totally unhealthy, our first task is to get the settler there asap. We should bring one archer there as well and we need a worker to clear the fallout for settling. Possible plan:
cottage worker to clear Pig city settling tile
archer->settler in capital
4th worker starts road building from the forest tile
2 workers improve and connect the elephant, then join the road building task
There's some micro to determine with the fish and we'll also need a worker to get the plains mine improved. We could consider building one in KCD city too, delaying the library a bit.
@Deckhand
Alpha worked for peace in tests, haven't tried math though. With peace signed, we're at -5 with the AI. Tech gifting can get +4 max, we'll get them to Cautious sooner or later. Note the time matter I've mentioned before, the sooner we gift the more we get for the same tech. (accumulated gift value/turns we have contact)
It's not speculation, I'm talking about that bug/AI cheat with wonders. We could invest some hammers immediately before we commit to the wonder with full production, keeping them off for a while until we're ready to build it.
Another thing I forgot to mention, the second cottage will have to wait. Note that it can't go to the river tile anyway, that would prevent irrigation to the rice. We'll need the plains mine first for the GLH.
-----------
Okay, since we can road the fallout and the pig city can live at size 1 totally unhealthy, our first task is to get the settler there asap. We should bring one archer there as well and we need a worker to clear the fallout for settling. Possible plan:
cottage worker to clear Pig city settling tile
archer->settler in capital
4th worker starts road building from the forest tile
2 workers improve and connect the elephant, then join the road building task
There's some micro to determine with the fish and we'll also need a worker to get the plains mine improved. We could consider building one in KCD city too, delaying the library a bit.
OK
I didn't recall reading that it had been substantiated. I questioned it when it was first mentioned and either I missed the post, forgot the post, or there was no post that said "yes it is true, It's not speculation, see this thread where Dan87878787 exposed the code" or somesuch.
Yamps
Deity
It's DanF5771. 
Sadly, he's not around for quite some time. I can't remember where I saw that, but there were some strong players involved in the thread. Maybe Narri could verify this in the code?
-------
Some thoughts on AI diplo:
Stalin won't trade until Pleased, we can pretty much forget about that. Still, it might be a good idea to sign peace with him. When we do sign, gifting sth immediately would be good as well. I mean, he might get to war mode again if Annoyed! Of course, he could do it at Cautious too, but with a lower chance.
Mao and FDR are getting mutual war bonuses right now and that's not really preferable.
We might get peace now with Churchill and Stalin for just AH and Writing. AH + BW worked for Gandhi, BW and Writing have the same cost. Then, Alpha gift to get the Cautious status.
There's the question of timing, if they meet Mao and FDR they could trade Alpha away.
In any case, from this point on, the diplo screen has to be checked each turn for AI to AI contact and for new techs. This is important and shouldn't be much of a problem since the sets are short anyway.
More ideas for the continuation:
worker->archer->settler->LH in capital, working the cottage instead of the fish
worker in KCD city at size 2, to get the plains mine. The plan would be to grow the capital to size 7 timed with the mine build.
techs: Math->Mysticism->Masonry (13 turns)
I'm inclined to try the AH+Writing for peace option with Stalin and Churchill right now, with Alpha as free gift for attitude. They won't be able to trade it to Mao and FDR before they get Writing, like we can't either. We can get Math in 9 turns, for the Alpha + Math for Mao and FDR. If Math is enough for peace then we gift Alpha after that, if not then we do it the other way around with Math as free gift.
Sadly, he's not around for quite some time. I can't remember where I saw that, but there were some strong players involved in the thread. Maybe Narri could verify this in the code?
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Some thoughts on AI diplo:
Stalin won't trade until Pleased, we can pretty much forget about that. Still, it might be a good idea to sign peace with him. When we do sign, gifting sth immediately would be good as well. I mean, he might get to war mode again if Annoyed! Of course, he could do it at Cautious too, but with a lower chance.
Mao and FDR are getting mutual war bonuses right now and that's not really preferable.
We might get peace now with Churchill and Stalin for just AH and Writing. AH + BW worked for Gandhi, BW and Writing have the same cost. Then, Alpha gift to get the Cautious status.
There's the question of timing, if they meet Mao and FDR they could trade Alpha away.In any case, from this point on, the diplo screen has to be checked each turn for AI to AI contact and for new techs. This is important and shouldn't be much of a problem since the sets are short anyway.
More ideas for the continuation:
worker->archer->settler->LH in capital, working the cottage instead of the fish
worker in KCD city at size 2, to get the plains mine. The plan would be to grow the capital to size 7 timed with the mine build.
techs: Math->Mysticism->Masonry (13 turns)
I'm inclined to try the AH+Writing for peace option with Stalin and Churchill right now, with Alpha as free gift for attitude. They won't be able to trade it to Mao and FDR before they get Writing, like we can't either. We can get Math in 9 turns, for the Alpha + Math for Mao and FDR. If Math is enough for peace then we gift Alpha after that, if not then we do it the other way around with Math as free gift.
Turns 73/1080BC to when?
City Builds:
NJ: worker4->archer(for Piggy)->settler(for Piggy)->LH (sacrifice population for overflow?) -> GLH
(Ironic that we won’t be working the fish when we have a lighthouse.)
KashCowDowns: library (sacrifice any population?), chariot(s), worker(s)
PiggyGrad: [Hill 1E of pigs /2N of sugar], (moot, will pause or stop when city built) granary (slaved), library?
Citizens:
NJ: gold, gold, cows, cows, clams, cottage, plains mine (time growth to 7 with ivory connected and plains mined)
KC: cow, fish, ivory, 2 scientists
PG: coast initially then pigs; cottage N of city, then build mines, later irrigate NE of city (moot, will pause or stop when built)
Workers:
W1/W2: ivory, road, pig FO/pasture, cottage, mines
W3: Piggygrad FO, help W1/W2, ivory
W4: Plains Hill FO/mine
Army:
Archer: S (forest), SW (hill), SW (forest), NW (hill), NE (forest), E (corn); then hang around cities.
Chariot2: SW/SW, SW/NW, NW/N, NW/N, NE/NE, NE/pillage corn; then explore west coast
Chariot1: “go west young man”
Workboat: head south, explore southern coast eventually
Diplo:
1. “try the AH+Writing for peace option with Stalin and Churchill right now, with Alpha as free gift for attitude.”
2. Then try Math for peace and free Alpha to Mao and Roosevelt.
Goal is to a) get peace and b) give them another tech to improve relations
Tech path: techs: “Math->Mysticism->Masonry (13 turns)”
Slider: 90% to learn Math in 9 turns (or 100% cash while library being built?)
Goals:
"Make Love, Not War" (Peace with distant AIs)
Don’t lose units
Settle new city on the piggyhill spot
Pillage and explore Gaul
Pause conditions:
Piggygrad founded
Masonry learned
Need Advice
Other:
Take Demo screenshot at turnset end.
Check diplo screen each turn for AI-AI contacts and for new techs, and note when they occur
Watch for dates of AI cities.
Pay attention to the log, and note any occurrences.
Guarantee: will not lose any workers or workboats to barbarians
Future:
Dot Map, city sites
City 4: next to or on marble
Questions:
Has anyone tested if we can irrigate the riverside desert? (iirc, cannot per pre-game thread)
Better name for PiggyGrad?
Also see above embedded questions
Comment: workers are important, but get KashCowDowns to 5 pop first, then switch to workers
City Builds:
NJ: worker4->archer(for Piggy)->settler(for Piggy)->LH (sacrifice population for overflow?) -> GLH
(Ironic that we won’t be working the fish when we have a lighthouse.)
KashCowDowns: library (sacrifice any population?), chariot(s), worker(s)
PiggyGrad: [Hill 1E of pigs /2N of sugar], (moot, will pause or stop when city built) granary (slaved), library?
Citizens:
NJ: gold, gold, cows, cows, clams, cottage, plains mine (time growth to 7 with ivory connected and plains mined)
KC: cow, fish, ivory, 2 scientists
PG: coast initially then pigs; cottage N of city, then build mines, later irrigate NE of city (moot, will pause or stop when built)
Workers:
W1/W2: ivory, road, pig FO/pasture, cottage, mines
W3: Piggygrad FO, help W1/W2, ivory
W4: Plains Hill FO/mine
Army:
Archer: S (forest), SW (hill), SW (forest), NW (hill), NE (forest), E (corn); then hang around cities.
Chariot2: SW/SW, SW/NW, NW/N, NW/N, NE/NE, NE/pillage corn; then explore west coast
Chariot1: “go west young man”
Workboat: head south, explore southern coast eventually
Diplo:
1. “try the AH+Writing for peace option with Stalin and Churchill right now, with Alpha as free gift for attitude.”
2. Then try Math for peace and free Alpha to Mao and Roosevelt.
Goal is to a) get peace and b) give them another tech to improve relations
Tech path: techs: “Math->Mysticism->Masonry (13 turns)”
Slider: 90% to learn Math in 9 turns (or 100% cash while library being built?)
Goals:
"Make Love, Not War" (Peace with distant AIs)
Don’t lose units
Settle new city on the piggyhill spot
Pillage and explore Gaul
Pause conditions:
Piggygrad founded
Masonry learned
Need Advice
Other:
Take Demo screenshot at turnset end.
Check diplo screen each turn for AI-AI contacts and for new techs, and note when they occur
Watch for dates of AI cities.
Pay attention to the log, and note any occurrences.
Guarantee: will not lose any workers or workboats to barbarians
Future:
Dot Map, city sites
City 4: next to or on marble
Questions:
Has anyone tested if we can irrigate the riverside desert? (iirc, cannot per pre-game thread)
Better name for PiggyGrad?
Also see above embedded questions
Comment: workers are important, but get KashCowDowns to 5 pop first, then switch to workers
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