SGOTM 12 - Xteam

leif erikson · Oct 8, 2010

Frederiksberg said:
Plan looks good!

Agreed. Let's go for it! :thumbsup:

Frederiksberg said:
As soon as we have 2-3 cities and the CS sling seems on track getting the GS for an Academy should have top priority.

Hopefully, the second and third cities can pick up some slack to keep up REX, with a few units, to fill our continent before someone, with bloodlust in their eyes, comes calling to settle, allowing the capital to focus upon research and an occasional pop-rush.

I'm also beginning to wonder if Stalin is south of us, as in the latest test game (sorry about the horse btw. :blush:

only perfect most of the time... :lol:

). Perhaps a scouting WB to the south might be in order, whenever we have some time to build one?

Grifftavian · Oct 8, 2010

Plan looks good, Z3. Good Luck!

leif erikson said:
...
I'm also beginning to wonder if Stalin is south of us, as in the latest test game (sorry about the horse btw. only perfect most of the time... ). Perhaps a scouting WB to the south might be in order, whenever we have some time to build one?

Yes, lets us know if you find Uncle Joe. Maybe the Chariot will spot him to the south, but an exploring work boat is a good idea if you can fit one in to the build priorities.

Cactus Pete · Oct 8, 2010

zamint3 said:
Research:
Writing – Math - CS-sling Concur

City placing: Concur, but need to get a worker preparing for City 3 quickly.
City 2 on forest SE of start.
City 3 NW of mainland cow

Build orders:
Moscow: Put current overflow into worker and then granary until we can whip worker, after granary -> library It will be 9 turns before we want to whip again. Are you sure we don't want to whip a settler then?
City 2: Worker – Warrior (mp in Moscow) - Worker

Worker actions:
Both workers: Mine 2nd gold Question this. (If you've tested thoroughly, then don't hesitate to tell me that what follows won't work well.) Second gold will be nearly mined before first gold mine is completed. Don't like wasting another move to get that worker up on the second gold hill and then mine it for just one turn. Two possible alternatives for that worker: road the gold mine its already on to facilitate movement west or (only if we don't need the road to access the gold for happiness) move south onto the forest and road that forest to make connection, to help get us west, and to return to easily in the future for chopping once Math is researched. -> scrub and pasture 2nd cow -> scrub, farm and road rice if we get Agriculture from Ghandi I'm inclined to let City 2 provide its own worker and to task existing ones with preparing route and scrubbing site for City 3. City 2 is quite useful just working the second gold hill and building a worker.

Worker 3 from Moscow will prepare for city 3. Suggest scrubbing for City 2 as discussed above.

Scouting:
Warrior will look a bit further north (To silver hill, perhaps?) and then go SW towards France, Chariot will move towards the pigs.

Peace negociations:
Hope for peace trade with Ghandi after 2nd city is build.

Yes.

I do not understand how City 2 on the forest 3S of the horses will be connected to Moscow. Did you have Sailing when you were testing? In any event, it is probably wise to road the second gold hill immediatley after mining it. If no connection, road forest to the south; if cities connect, then send worker west after road completed. Think it will work best to go directly to the grassland cows and scrub them before scrubbing city site.

The-Hawk · Oct 8, 2010

Sorry, I've been out of pocket.

I would encourage getting a worker up to city 3 site quickly. Not only does he need 6 turns to prep the site for founding the city, but we should try to have the deer and cows scrubbed before settling. As soon as the settler founds the city, the worker should be pasturing or camping (not scrubbing). Otherwise the city waits too long to make use of any improved tiles.

zamint3 · Oct 9, 2010

Cactus Pete said:
I do not understand how City 2 on the forest 3S of the horses will be connected to Moscow. Did you have Sailing when you were testing? In any event, it is probably wise to road the second gold hill immediatley after mining it. If no connection, road forest to the south; if cities connect, then send worker west after road completed. Think it will work best to go directly to the grassland cows and scrub them before scrubbing city site.

When the border pops we'll have a coastal trade connection inside our own cultural borders (no sailing) giving city2 our 3 health resources, and the gold on the river will be connected once it's mined.

I think CP and Hawk are right, we should prioritize preparing city3.

I just tested letting both workers build a road to 3rd city site and scrubbing cow and settling tile, timing this with settler from Moscow works pretty good, both workers will pasture cow immediately (2 turns), this gets city3 up and running fast!

- and it gives the workers time to scrub and camp deer before growth.

I did delay the settler from Moscow a few turns. The 3rd city brings expenses up from 2 to 7 :eek:

, but I build oracle on turn 86, 8 turns from a great scientist and the oracle will pollute the GP-pool.

I wish we could have the cake and eat it. :cool:

City 2 will be left alone for quite some time producing it's own workers, working the 2nd gold and not really needing the health resources. :mischief:

But I think this is the way to go! :goodjob:

Cactus Pete · Oct 9, 2010

zamint3 said:
When the border pops we'll have a coastal trade connection inside our own cultural borders (no sailing) giving city2 our 3 health resources (Always something new to learn. Thanks, Z.)
, and the gold on the river will be connected (Excellent, then road the forest to the south.) once it's mined.

I just tested letting both workers build a road to 3rd city site and scrubbing cow and settling tile, timing this with settler from Moscow works pretty good, both workers will pasture cow immediately (2 turns), this gets city3 up and running fast! Hope you were you able to build the road on the second gold hil before moving that worker west?

I did delay the settler from Moscow a few turns. The 3rd city brings expenses up from 2 to 7 (Should still be a net gain in gold.), but I build oracle on turn 86, 8 turns from a great scientist and the oracle will pollute the GP-pool.
City 2 will be left alone for quite some time producing it's own workers, working the 2nd gold and not really needing the health resources.

But I think this is the way to go!

Concur.

leif erikson · Oct 9, 2010

Nice job working out the MM.
Sounds like we're about ready to go? :goodjob:

Good Luck z3! :thumbsup:

zamint3 · Oct 9, 2010

OK - I'll play tomorrow morning, 9 hours from now.

Workers should prep for city3 first and then come back and chop one forest for oracle.

leif erikson · Oct 9, 2010

zamint3 said:
OK - I'll play tomorrow morning, 9 hours from now.

Please let us know if you meet Stalin nearby?

Good Luck. :cowboy:

Cactus Pete · Oct 9, 2010

Good to go by me.

Any chance of using the worker from City 2 to chop Oracle?

zamint3 · Oct 10, 2010

Cactus Pete said:
Good to go by me.

Any chance of using the worker from City 2 to chop Oracle?

Yes that's no problem, but when the workers have pastured the cow at city3 there's not really need for more than one worker up there, depending on how fast we need more luxury.

leif erikson said:
Please let us know if you meet Stalin nearby?

Good Luck.

Thanks, I'll start playing now, and let you know if anything out of the ordinary happens.

zamint3 · Oct 10, 2010

I played until T68 1280bc

Summary
We seem to be alone with France who is on a big peninsula.
We have made peace with Gandhi but he wont do further trade.

Turnlog in spoiler:

Spoiler :

Autolog:

Spoiler :

In game turnlog:

Spoiler :

Screenshots:

Worker and build action are going according to plan, I deliberately delayed the settler out of Moscow to get Math earlier as we could not get peace with Gandhi without it, hope this does not backfire. :cry:

Reason for stopping:
Gandhi now has priesthood :eek:

do we still want to go for CS-sling?
Do we want to gift Gandhi AH and hope to trade for Meditation or Polytheism?

I have uploaded the save:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm12/Xteam_SG012_BC1280_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

The-Hawk · Oct 10, 2010

Looks good! :goodjob:

Ghandi is teching pretty fast. A couple of the AI's beat us to two cities as well. Looks like we will be playing catch up.

Oracle does seem like a lost cause, unless we think we can beat him with a chop.

leif erikson · Oct 10, 2010

The-Hawk said:
Oracle does seem like a lost cause, unless we think we can beat him with a chop.

We may beat him to Oracle, but I don't think we'll have time to research CoL's to get CS, will we?

Need to look at the game, but is a Metal Casting sling worth the effort? :think:

Cactus Pete · Oct 10, 2010

Leaving town in a few minutes and will be gone 36 hours. Sorry don't have time to look at save. Gifting a cheap tech seems worth a try. If Oracle is out, consider Sailing next. Galley would allow some protection of nets and the possibility of stealing valuable workers.

leif erikson · Oct 10, 2010

Hope you have a good trip CP. :wavey:

Looked at the save and all the civs are now ready to trade for peace if we give them St. Pete. If we do not think the Oracle is a go, then perhaps Alphabet. They may take peace for a tech or two? Then we might be able to trade our way to CS, which seems faster than self-researching to it? :hmm:

Of course, we do not know what techs the AI's may have... :rolleyes:

On the other hand, a Metal Casting sling would give us something of value to trade with G once we gift BW or whatever we have at the time?

Conquistador 63 · Oct 10, 2010

Hi, sorry for the absence of late, been away/busy in RL.

It seems it will be hard to trade techs with the AI for a while, because we will be their worst enemy, as is the case with Gandhi now, even if he normally trade techs at furious.

If we still want to try the Oracle, IMHO Currency could help us more than MC or CoL, given CS is too far away. Another option could be a run for the GLH, there are quite a few decent coastal city sites available for settling. Of course, that would only pay off after we get peace and OB with enough AI's.

Rusten · Oct 11, 2010

Try playing 1 turn. Maybe he will trade techs then (possibly no more worst enemy, I don't think he dislikes us enough).

Researching at 90% is bad. Need to make sure rounding is favourable -- at least this early in the game.

zamint3 · Oct 11, 2010

Rusten said:
Try playing 1 turn. Maybe he will trade techs then (possibly no more worst enemy, I don't think he dislikes us enough).

That's what I thought and I did play one turn after the peace deal, but no luck.

Rusten said:
Researching at 90% is bad. Need to make sure rounding is favourable -- at least this early in the game.

Please explain, I thought this was no problem any more, fixed by some update? :confused:

Rusten · Oct 11, 2010

You lose beakers/gold to rounding in BTS too. The difference is that the entire empire is counted before it rounds down, whereas it used to be per city.

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