SGOTM 12 - Xteam

[Grifftavian]

Snip...
I am liking N and then NE, between the Cows. Not sure if seafood is affected by radiation, seems like a good way to get some food going and Workers built. Seafood also has some commerce for us, if we can get Work Boats built relatively quickly?

If all biological units are none existent, then everyone should have a slowish start and we need to get ahead of that.

That was my first thought, with the lower part of the peninsula occupied by a city on the forested plains hill.

Attached are some Dot-Map screen shots of this scenario. A pretty good location for the Capitol (4 Food Resources, 2 Gold Mines, a decent amount of , and 3 trees to chop) and a second city with Rice & 2 Silk.

The downside I see is we don't found the Capitol until turn 3, and we have to research Fishing before we can build Work Boats (we start with Hunting, Mining and Ecology).

But I can think of 2 alternative sites for the capital, just to stir up some debate.

1. 1NE: Pros: 13 land tiles vs 9 if settling NNE; Cons: we miss fish in capital (gets rice instead), we lose a chop.

2. In place: Pros: no turns wasted moving, all land, more likely to get strategic resource before city2, fresh water, 9 river tiles for levee, super bureau + HR capital. Con: we miss clam as a workable tile (probably forever) and fish (until a later city gets it), we lose a chop.

Both of these are good options as well. I like In Place, mainly because I generally don't like giving away turns at the start. (BTW, I'm a Noble/Prince player usually, have won at Monarch twice) If we settle In Place, we could start research with Bronze Working, if we wanted an early switch to Slavery, but probably better to start with Animal Husbandry so we can get those Cows fenced in (and maybe find some nearby Horses) and then go Agriculture/The Wheel/Pottery to be able to build some cottages on those riverside tiles.

 

[Grifftavian]

Attached is a TEST Game I made. I'm sure its nowhere close to the actual game, but I think I've gotten the starting location correct, so it should be good for trying out opening strategies. It wouldn't let me upload the WorldBuilder save, but if anyone wants to take a stab at making improvements to the game, let me know and I can e-mail the WB save to you. Or if there are changes you think need to be made, let me know and I'll try and get them into the TEST Game save.

Enjoy! (Disclaimer: I haven't tried playing this game yet)

 

[Rusten]

Checking in for the lurker roster.

Hello to everyone, new and old.

 

[leif erikson]

Attached are some Dot-Map screen shots of this scenario. A pretty good location for the Capitol (4 Food Resources, 2 Gold Mines, a decent amount of , and 3 trees to chop) and a second city with Rice & 2 Silk.

Thanks for the dot maps.

And the test save.

Both of these are good options as well. I like In Place, mainly because I generally don't like giving away turns at the start. (BTW, I'm a Noble/Prince player usually, have won at Monarch twice) If we settle In Place, we could start research with Bronze Working, if we wanted an early switch to Slavery, but probably better to start with Animal Husbandry so we can get those Cows fenced in (and maybe find some nearby Horses) and then go Agriculture/The Wheel/Pottery to be able to build some cottages on those riverside tiles.

In place gives up the Clam, too much food waste?

Settling 1NE provides enough food to work the two Gold mines, but messes up the spot for a southern city.

You're right that waiting to turn 3 to settle is a bit of a wait.

And to the south does not seem worth the effort for a capital?

Checking in for the lurker roster.

Hello to everyone, new and old.

Hi Rusten, glad to see you back.

 

[Grifftavian]

Snip...

First questions: what are the implications of having ecology at the start? Any useful civics or buildings unlocked? More worrisome, what kind of techs might our at war enemies have in hand from the start (hopefully not artillery! Befudlov anyone?)?

dV

Going to be an interesting test game, since we don't really know what units or what techs the AI might be starting out with.

Can we assume they all start with ecology? Otherwise, our monopoly on fallout cleanup would be a huge edge, wouldn't it?

If some AI does start out with artillery or a similar weapons tech, we would not know until we see the unit, right? Even with alpha, since we lack the pre-reqs, it would not be visible, right?

dV

The biggest benefit of Ecology at the start of this game is the ability to scrub Fallout. It allows Recycling Centers, but we probably don't need to build any of those until we have Forges, Factories and Power Plants up and running in our cities. It will also allow us to build the SS Life Support project as soon as we have completed The Apollo Program.

I was thinking that it might make good trade bait since...

The good news is that you have managed to retain the knowledge of Ecology. The bad news is that the opponents have most certainly retained advanced knowledge as well, perhaps even nuclear technology.

but you may be correct, we may not know what advanced tech the other AI Civs have, since we most likely will not have the prerequisite techs.

I don't think we can assume the AI Civs all know Ecology. IMO, it would be better if they did not, since it would give us a tech we could trade, or possibly use as a bribe for a Peace Treaty if someone is unwilling to otherwise stop a war. Trading it away could have an added benefit, if we assume the AI Civs would use it to have their Workers scrub Fallout. The Victory Condition just says all fallout has to be cleared, it doesn't say we have to be the ones to clear it.

So, which advanced techs might the AIs have in their retained knowledge? Can we assume that since we have retained the knowledge of a Modern Era Tech, the AI Civs have done so as well? Some possibilities...

Ecology allows the SS Life Support project. The other AI Civs have retained knowledge of a Modern Era Tech that allow other Space Ship components. That may make winning the Space Race fairly hard.

The AI Civs have retained the knowledge of the technology that allows their Unique Unit. Scary, but unlikely IMO, since it has the potential to unbalance the game. Can you imagine starting next to Churchill or Roosevelt and having to fight Redcoats or Navy Seals with Warriors and Axemen? Besides, Gandhi's UU is the Fast Worker, so he would be at a disadvantage as well. Hmmm... might we start next to Gandhi again, as in SG10? The map is not the same as in SGOTM10. You are land connected to at least one of the AIs.

The AI Civs have retained the knowledge of the technology that allows their Unique Building. That might actually make for an interesting game.

But enough idle speculation. A journey of 4.37 Light Years begins with a single step. Where do we settle, what are our initial builds and our initial research path?

 

[leif erikson]

Getting Ecology into AI hands would probably be a great idea as then they can scrub fallout too. Would be nice to have some help.

Of course, first we have to make peace...

Or, knowing this team, perhaps we will just take them?

 

[Grifftavian]

Hmmm... looks like X-Team has an extra requirement for this game.

 

[Grifftavian]

Getting Ecology into AI hands would probably be a great idea as then they can scrub fallout too. Would be nice to have some help.

Of course, first we have to make peace...

Or, knowing this team, perhaps we will just take them?

We can't kill them all, just Uncle Joe.

Goals
To win the game:

* All fallout must be cleared
* Stalin must be defeated (dead)
* All other AIs must survive and be at peace with the player when space victory is achieved.
* Teams will not be penalized for events outside the team's control, such as:
o one AI killing the other before the team has the opportunity to prevent it
o one AI declares war on team after the launch
o one AI launch a nuke after the launch ....etc.
o any fallout that may appear on unreachable terrain does NOT need to be cleaned up.

However, that doesn't mean we can't remind them who's the Boss every now and them.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Hi guys! Put me on the "lurker" rooster.

Going for seafood makes sense given that land tiles can only be developed very slowly. Perhaps research Fishing - BW? Start Worker - switch to WB, 2nd WB, finish worker (whip?). I hope some of you will do some testing of the different opening options.

 

[The-Hawk]

Going for seafood makes sense given that land tiles can only be developed very slowly. Perhaps research Fishing - BW? Start Worker - switch to WB, 2nd WB, finish worker (whip?).

Yes, my gut feel is we need to work the seafood. This scenario is going to need a gang of workers to make cities productive, working the seafood seems to be the best bet to spamming workers.

Another problem with settling in place is it blocks most of our peninsula for a second city. Settling N/NE loses the fresh water but allows a decent second city somewhere to the south (maybe 2S from the current settler position).

 

[The-Hawk]

Griff, changes needed to the test save:

Tile N, NW: the gold should be on a plains hill, not grass hill

Tile N, NE: Should be plains (no hill), not grass hill

Tile N: the gold should be on a plains hill, not grass hill

Tile 2W: Should be plains forest, not grass forest

Tile 2E: Should be plains hill, not grass hill

Tile 1S: Should be plains hill, not grass hill

Tile SW, SW: Should be plains hill (fallout), not coast

Tile S, SW: Should be plains, not grass

Tile 2S: Should be plains hill, not grass hill

Tile S, SE: Should be grass hill, not grass

I think all of the fallout is correct.

 

[leif erikson]

We can't kill them all, just Uncle Joe.

From the first post in our thread.

The heavens split open, heat poured over the innocents, earth spew lava in anguish, light shone over the earth for a short moment. Then darkness, despair, suffering, torment. And death. If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendor of the mighty one. Stalin had now become Death, the destroyer of worlds. And the people of Russia turned against him in disgust. Civil war broke out and the once glorious civilization shattered as a second wave of nuclear fire rained upon the land.

Let's think about this a minute.
We share this island/continent with one other civ, iirc. We have broken off from Stalin's nation and are conducting a civil war. Generally, when a nation conducts a civil war, the two parties occupy the same country, or island/continent? If this is true, then perhaps we will find Stalin sooner, rather than later? If his land isn't as badly nuked, we will have a chore ahead of us to take him down. We also do not know what techs Erkon has allowed him to keep?

Just an assumption, of course.

Fred is correct that we should try a few different starts with the test save, I think at least through 50 to 75 turns. I'll try to find some time this evening.

I would really like to try the turn 3 settlement on the hill with the two seafood resources. What other viable alternatives should we consider? 1 NE?

 

[leif erikson]

Corrected the save per Hawk's instructions.

 

[Conquistador 63]

Hi guys! Put me on the "lurker" rooster.

Going for seafood makes sense given that land tiles can only be developed very slowly. Perhaps research Fishing - BW? Start Worker - switch to WB, 2nd WB, finish worker (whip?). I hope some of you will do some testing of the different opening options.

Good point on slow development of land tiles. For the record, the settling options I presented were just food for thought. However, I'm not sure if it safe to build 2 WB and a worker when an enemy warrior/archer can show up at any point - we have no scout to find out how far away is the AI who shares our landmass - and as Leif pointed out, could very well be Stalin.

 

[leif erikson]

Played 55-turns in test game. Log:

Turn 0 - 4000 BC – Move Settler NE.

Turn 1 – 3960 BC – Move Settler North and found Moscow. We start at –1 Health, work only tile available, the grass forest, and set production to Worker and research to Fishing.

Turn 2 – 3920 BC – We get a message that Gandhi has adopted Representation.

Turn 3 – 3880 BC

Turn 4 – 3840 BC – Borders of Moscow expand.

Turn 5 – 3800 BC – We get notified that De Gaulle is willing to sign a peace treaty. Check it and he will not?

Turn 6 – 3760 BC – Same message for Gandhi, he won’t either?

Turn 7 – 3720 BC – snooze

Turn 8 – 3680 BC – Fishing is in. Change production to Work Boat and research Bronze Working.

Turns 9 – 10 – snooze

Turn 11 – 3560 BC Gandhi adopts Buddhism.

Turns 12 – 22 - snooze.

Turn 23 – 3080 BC – First WB completes, continue building Worker as we are losing hammers on it. Bronze Working is in, start research of The Wheel. Revolt to Slavery.

Turn 24 – Build fishing nets on Fish.

Turn 25 – We get healthy with Fish.

Turn 26 – snooze

Turn 27 – 2920 BC – Culture expands borders again.

Turns 28 and 29 – snooze.

Turn 30 – Churchill adopts Slavery.

Turn 31 – snooze.

Turn 32 – 2720 BC - The Wheel completes, start on Pottery. Worker completes, start on WB. Send Worker to Gold Hill on river (2W) Forgot that they can only move one tile per turn due to fallout.

Turn 33 – snooze

Turn 34 – 2540 BC - Moscow grows to size 2, become unhealthy again. Worker starts scrubbing fallout.

Turns 35 – 38 – snooze

Turn 39 – 2440 BC – Hinduism is founded in a far away land.

Turn 40 – We discover Pottery and begin researching Writing. Fallout scrubbed, start mining.

Turns 41 – 43 – snooze.

Turn 44 – 2240 BC – Work Boat completes, start a Scout. Net the clams. MM citizens to work Fish, Clams and Gold.

Turn 45 – snooze

Turn 46 – 2160 BC – Moscow grows to size 4. Worker moves to second gold hill.

Turn 47 – 2120 BC – Worker starts scrubbing.

Turn 48 – 2080 BC - Scout completes, start a Worker.

Turn 49 – 2040 BC – Writing is in, start on Animal Husbandry.

Turns 50 and 51 – snooze.

Turn 52 – 1920 BC – Find Stalin.

Turn 53 – snooze.

Turn 54 – 1840 BC – Judaism founded in a distant land. Should have built a Warrior so I could steal Stalin’s Worker. Make a note of that!

Turn 55 – 1800 BC – Animal Husbandry is in, start on Mathematics. Worker completes, start a Warrior.. Stalin has St. Petersburg (2nd city) built with 2 Archers in it.

 

[Grifftavian]

I played the TEST game 83 turns, to 800 BC IIRC. Settler N+NE for Capitol, with St. Pete to the South as discussed earlier. Similar results to Leif.

Autolog Part 1...

Spoiler :

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 0 (4000 BC) [15-Sep-2010 21:48:57]
Player Comment Start TEST SG12: Scenario 1 - Settle N+NE
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 1 (3960 BC) [15-Sep-2010 21:49:12]
Moscow founded
Moscow begins: Worker (20 turns)
Research begun: Fishing (7 Turns)
Player Comment Initial build = Worker; researching Fishing
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Gandhi(India) from 'Despotism' to 'Representation'

Turn 2 (3920 BC) [15-Sep-2010 21:51:06]
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Churchill(England) from 'Decentralization' to 'Mercantilism'

Turn 3 (3880 BC) [15-Sep-2010 21:51:28]
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow's borders expand

Turn 4 (3840 BC) [15-Sep-2010 21:51:43]
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 5 (3800 BC) [15-Sep-2010 21:51:54]
Player Comment DeGaulle will talk, but will not sign Peace Treaty or Cease Fire.
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 6 (3760 BC) [15-Sep-2010 21:54:00]
Player Comment No Peace/Cease Fire with Gandhi either!
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 7 (3720 BC) [15-Sep-2010 21:55:34]
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Fishing

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Churchill (England) towards Gandhi (India), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Roosevelt (America) towards De Gaulle (France), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Gandhi (India) towards Mao Zedong (China), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 8 (3680 BC) [15-Sep-2010 21:55:43]
Research begun: Animal Husbandry (13 Turns)
Player Comment Fishing complete; start Annimal Husbandry for Cow Pastures.
Moscow begins: Work Boat (15 turns)
Player Comment Added Work Boat to top of build queue in Moscow.
Player Comment No Peace with Curchill or Mao; I'm not even going to ask Stalin
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 9 (3640 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:00:18]
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Buddhism founded in a distant land
Attitude Change: Churchill (England) towards Gandhi (India), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Gandhi (India) towards Mao Zedong (China), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 10 (3600 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:00:22]
Player Comment No Peace/Cease Fire with Roosevelt.
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
State Religion Change: Gandhi (India) from 'no State Religion' to 'Buddhism'

Turn 11 (3560 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:01:36]
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 12 (3520 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:01:46]
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Roosevelt (America) towards De Gaulle (France), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Civics Change: Gandhi(India) from 'Representation' to 'Despotism'

Turn 13 (3480 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:01:50]
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 14 (3440 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:01:57]
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: De Gaulle (France) towards Cathy (Imperial Russia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'

Turn 15 (3400 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:02:00]
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 16 (3360 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:02:03]
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 17 (3320 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:02:08]
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 18 (3280 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:02:11]
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 19 (3240 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:02:15]
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Churchill (England) towards Cathy (Imperial Russia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'
Attitude Change: Mao Zedong (China) towards Cathy (Imperial Russia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'

Turn 20 (3200 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:02:18]
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Animal Husbandry

Turn 21 (3160 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:02:25]
Research begun: Bronze Working (16 Turns)
Player Comment Animal Husbandry complete; starting Bronze Working
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 22 (3120 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:03:53]
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Work Boat

Turn 23 (3080 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:04:00]
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Roosevelt (America) towards Cathy (Imperial Russia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'
Attitude Change: Roosevelt (America) towards De Gaulle (France), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Civics Change: Gandhi(India) from 'Despotism' to 'Representation'

Turn 24 (3040 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:04:12]
A Fishing Boats was built near Moscow
Player Comment Fishing Boats in place; Red Snapper for Dinner tonight! LOL
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Roosevelt (America) towards De Gaulle (France), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Gandhi (India) towards Cathy (Imperial Russia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'
Attitude Change: Stalin (Russia) towards Churchill (England), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 25 (3000 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:05:56]
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow's borders expand

Turn 26 (2960 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:06:04]
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 27 (2920 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:06:14]
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 28 (2880 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:06:17]
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Churchill(England) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 29 (2840 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:06:24]
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Stalin (Russia) towards Churchill (England), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 30 (2800 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:06:34]
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Worker

Turn 31 (2760 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:06:42]
Moscow begins: Warrior (15 turns)
Player Comment Worker completed; building (training?) Warrior
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 32 (2720 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:07:54]
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow grows to size 2

Turn 33 (2680 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:08:01]
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 34 (2640 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:08:08]
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Bronze Working

Turn 35 (2600 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:08:19]
Research begun: The Wheel (81 Turns)
Research begun: Pottery (81 Turns)
Player Comment BW Completed; switch to Slavery;bee-lining Pottery
Player Comment Copper just outside BFC, but in cultural borders!
100% Research: 0 per turn
0% Espionage: 0 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Cathy(Imperial Russia) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 36 (2560 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:11:07]
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 37 (2520 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:11:17]
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 38 (2480 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:11:23]
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow grows to size 3

Other Player Actions:
Hinduism founded in a distant land

Turn 39 (2440 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:11:31]
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
State Religion Change: Gandhi (India) from 'Buddhism' to 'Hinduism'
Civics Change: De Gaulle(France) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 40 (2400 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:12:03]
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

 

[Grifftavian]

Autolog Part 2...

Spoiler :

Turn 41 (2360 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:12:19]
A Pasture was built near Moscow
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: The Wheel

Turn 42 (2320 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:12:29]
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Warrior

Turn 43 (2280 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:12:45]
Moscow begins: Warrior (5 turns)
Player Comment Warrior completed; building another Warrior
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow grows to size 4

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Churchill (England) towards Mao Zedong (China), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: De Gaulle (France) towards Stalin (Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Mao Zedong (China) towards Churchill (England), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Stalin (Russia) towards De Gaulle (France), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 44 (2240 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:13:54]
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 45 (2200 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:14:07]
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Churchill (England) towards Mao Zedong (China), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Mao Zedong (China) towards Churchill (England), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Stalin (Russia) towards Churchill (England), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 46 (2160 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:14:12]
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Warrior

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: De Gaulle (France) towards Stalin (Russia), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Stalin (Russia) towards De Gaulle (France), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 47 (2120 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:14:18]
Moscow begins: Work Boat (8 turns)
Player Comment 2nd Warrior completed; building Work Boat for 1 turn, then switching to Settler at size 5
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow grows to size 5

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: De Gaulle (France) towards Stalin (Russia), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Stalin (Russia) towards De Gaulle (France), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 48 (2080 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:15:52]
Moscow begins: Settler (8 turns)
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 49 (2040 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:16:23]
Player Comment 49 turns in, and still nobody will declare peace
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Pottery

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Churchill (England) towards Mao Zedong (China), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Mao Zedong (China) towards Churchill (England), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Stalin (Russia) towards Churchill (England), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 50 (2000 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:19:21]
Research begun: Archery (5 Turns)
Player Comment Pottery completed; starting Archery, just in case
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Churchill (England) towards Mao Zedong (China), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Mao Zedong (China) towards Churchill (England), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Stalin (Russia) towards Churchill (England), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 51 (1960 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:20:42]
Player Comment Whipped Settler for 2 population and 21 hammer overflow
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Moscow
Moscow finishes: Settler

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Churchill (England) towards Mao Zedong (China), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Mao Zedong (China) towards Churchill (England), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Stalin (Russia) towards Churchill (England), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 52 (1920 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:21:52]
100% Research: 11 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Work Boat

Turn 53 (1880 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:22:18]
Moscow begins: Scout (5 turns)
A Fishing Boats was built near Moscow
Player Comment Work Boat finished with overflow, building Scout
Player Comment We've added Clam Chowder to the menu, also Steak
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Judaism founded in a distant land
Attitude Change: Stalin (Russia) towards De Gaulle (France), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 54 (1840 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:24:05]
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Archery
Moscow grows to size 4
Moscow finishes: Scout

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Stalin (Russia) towards De Gaulle (France), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Civics Change: Mao Zedong(China) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'
Civics Change: Gandhi(India) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'

Turn 55 (1800 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:24:19]
Research begun: Writing (9 Turns)
Moscow begins: Worker (5 turns)
Player Comment Archery completed; started Writing
Player Comment Scout completed; starting another Worker at size 4
100% Research: 13 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Churchill (England) towards Mao Zedong (China), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Mao Zedong (China) towards Churchill (England), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 56 (1760 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:26:28]
St. Petersburg founded
St. Petersburg begins: Worker (20 turns)
Player Comment St. Pete founded; it has stagant growth, so building Worker
100% Research: 15 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -2 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 57 (1720 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:28:04]
A Mine was built near Moscow
80% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 2 per turn, 1 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Roosevelt (America) towards De Gaulle (France), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Stalin (Russia) towards Churchill (England), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 58 (1680 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:28:29]
Player Comment We've got
Player Comment We've got Gold, but Stalin is close to boxing us in
80% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 2 per turn, 3 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Roosevelt (America) towards De Gaulle (France), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Civics Change: Stalin(Russia) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 59 (1640 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:30:05]
80% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 2 per turn, 5 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Worker

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Churchill (England) towards De Gaulle (France), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Churchill (England) towards Gandhi (India), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Attitude Change: Mao Zedong (China) towards Roosevelt (America), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Roosevelt (America) towards De Gaulle (France), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Gandhi (India) towards Mao Zedong (China), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 60 (1600 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:30:22]
Moscow begins: Barracks (9 turns)
80% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 2 per turn, 7 in the bank

After End Turn:
St. Petersburg's borders expand

Turn 61 (1560 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:30:58]
80% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 2 per turn, 9 in the bank

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Moscow

Turn 62 (1520 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:31:19]
80% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 2 per turn, 11 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Writing

Turn 63 (1480 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:31:29]
Research begun: Agriculture (4 Turns)
Player Comment Writing completed; started Agriculture for the Rice near St. Pete
80% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 2 per turn, 13 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow grows to size 5

Turn 64 (1440 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:32:47]
80% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 1 per turn, 15 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Churchill (England) towards De Gaulle (France), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Stalin (Russia) towards Churchill (England), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 65 (1400 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:33:03]
80% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 1 per turn, 16 in the bank

Turn 66 (1360 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:33:37]
80% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 1 per turn, 17 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Agriculture
Moscow finishes: Barracks

Turn 67 (1320 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:33:50]
Research begun: Masonry (5 Turns)
Moscow begins: Archer (4 turns)
Moscow begins: Archer (4 turns)
Player Comment Agriculter finished; started Masonry for city walls
80% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 1 per turn, 18 in the bank

Turn 68 (1280 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:36:09]
A Mine was built
Player Comment We've got Copper
80% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 1 per turn, 19 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow grows to size 6

Other Player Actions:
Civics Change: Roosevelt(America) from 'Tribalism' to 'Slavery'

Turn 69 (1240 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:36:49]
80% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 1 per turn, 20 in the bank

Turn 70 (1200 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:37:12]
80% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 1 per turn, 21 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Archer

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Gandhi (India) towards De Gaulle (France), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Stalin (Russia) towards Churchill (England), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Attitude Change: Stalin (Russia) towards De Gaulle (France), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 71 (1160 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:37:33]
Archer 1 (Moscow) promoted: City Garrison I
80% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 1 per turn, 22 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Masonry

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Stalin (Russia) towards Churchill (England), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Stalin (Russia) towards De Gaulle (France), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'

Turn 72 (1120 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:38:05]
Research begun: Mysticism (4 Turns)
80% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 1 per turn, 23 in the bank

Turn 73 (1080 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:39:26]
80% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 1 per turn, 24 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow finishes: Archer

Turn 74 (1040 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:39:37]
Moscow begins: Settler (6 turns)
Archer 2 (Moscow) promoted: Guerilla I
80% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 1 per turn, 25 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Gandhi (India) towards Cathy (Imperial Russia), from 'Furious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Stalin (Russia) towards De Gaulle (France), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'

Turn 75 (1000 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:40:06]
80% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 1 per turn, 26 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Mysticism
St. Petersburg finishes: Worker

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Gandhi (India) towards Cathy (Imperial Russia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'
Attitude Change: Stalin (Russia) towards Churchill (England), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 76 (975 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:40:18]
Research begun: Meditation (5 Turns)
St. Petersburg begins: Barracks (17 turns)
Player Comment After building 2 Archers in Moscow, whipped Settler for 2 pop and 22 hammer overflow
80% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 2 per turn, 27 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Moscow
Moscow finishes: Settler

Turn 77 (950 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:42:26]
Moscow begins: Granary (10 turns)
A Pasture was built near Moscow
80% Research: 16 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 2 per turn, 29 in the bank

After End Turn:
Moscow grows to size 5

Turn 78 (925 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:43:43]
80% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 1 per turn, 31 in the bank

Turn 79 (900 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:44:15]
80% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: 1 per turn, 32 in the bank

Turn 80 (875 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:46:57]
Rostov founded
Rostov begins: Worker (20 turns)
80% Research: 21 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: -2 per turn, 33 in the bank

After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Meditation
Moscow grows to size 6
Moscow finishes: Granary

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Gandhi (India) towards Cathy (Imperial Russia), from 'Furious' to 'Annoyed'
Attitude Change: Stalin (Russia) towards Churchill (England), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 81 (850 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:48:48]
Research begun: Priesthood (4 Turns)
Moscow begins: Axeman (5 turns)
80% Research: 21 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: -2 per turn, 31 in the bank

Turn 82 (825 BC) [15-Sep-2010 22:49:22]
80% Research: 21 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
20% Gold: -2 per turn, 29 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Gandhi (India) towards Cathy (Imperial Russia), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'
Attitude Change: Stalin (Russia) towards Roosevelt (America), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

 

[Grifftavian]

See attached screen shot from my test game.

 

[zamint3]

I hope this only happens in the testgame..

Spoiler :

I'm testing building Moscow 1SE with a fast settler as first build (17 turns).
The spot has terrible health problems -2, but running -2 food with 0 food stored does not seem to have any negative effects at pop 1 !!?

 

[Mad Professor]

I'm testing building Moscow 1SE with a fast settler as first build (17 turns).
The spot has terrible health problems -2, but running -2 food with 0 food stored does not seem to have any negative effects at pop 1 !!?

Right - you can't starve to less than size one because of lack of food in the city. The people somehow survive on thin air, but they survive even if they never reproduce!