SGOTM 12 - Xteam

[Frederiksberg]

Comments to the plan:

When we get "Hoover" (3Gorges) all cities will become healthy so please remove all health buildings from the plan.

We have plenty of places to build units so please remove all barracks from the plan. Might as well let the cities with no barracks be the ones building wealth/workers.

In Chengdu and Hastings build libraries instead of theaters. In Paris build forge instead of lighthouse (for happiness and production.)

Don't build workers in small cities that have growth potential.

I think Paris should keep building a couple of cannons and Rheims possibly a couple of battleships.

I think we can postpone a decision on the GS until we want to start researching Fission. Might as well keep an option open for a GA

Worker actions: Most important task right now is to scrub AND improve tiles for our new cities. Concentrate on one tile at at a time, it's better to have one scrubbed tile with a workshop than two scrubbed, unimproved tiles. London should have priority - it's potentially a good place to produce units with those 2 instructors.

The workers on the Khabarovsk/Krasnoyarsk island are almost out of work. Move all of them except one (that finishes scrubbing) to the main land.

Building railroads has very low priority because we already have RR all the way to Nottingham and also all the way to Shanghai.

Agree with leif regarding Rostov and I would go even further and stop working the coast tile and hire an engineer. City won't loose pop before 3Gorges is done.

When we have peace with China remember to readjust science to 100%.

 

[Frederiksberg]

I think we need to set some goals in order to focus play. We already have a tech goal and a worker goal of improving land around our new cities. I propose that we set an economical goal of running at -200gpt. That should give us time enough time to grow a new GM before we run out of gold. We should certainly not exceed this and burn our gold faster.

Regarding military goals I see the following options for war:

1. Scrubbing war: We move in with workers and scrub trying to avoid killing units and building WW.
2. Conquest war: We aim to capture enemy cities and land.

A scrubbing war will be relatively slow so we can't really do this with Churchill since we already have lots of WW in relation to him. This leaves only a super fast conquest war: We move in simultaneously on all his remaining cities except Leeds which will be his final refuge. The rest of the game could play out as follows:

1. Short conquest war (4-5 turns) against Churchill
2. Conquest wars against Stalin and Gandhi.
3. Scrubbing war against Roosevelt.
4. Space ship built

To implement this we need to move all our infantry and galleons to Guangzhou (Keep 1-2 galleons to ferry infantry from London to Nottingham and tanks from Nottingham to London. We want two tank armies in Nottingham and London ready to strike against Canterbury and Oxford and a mix of infantry, cannons and tanks loaded in boats ready to sail for Newcastle, Coventry, Warwick. We can scout with airships to find out how big the armies need to be for each city. It's a race against time because we don't want Churchill to get infantry before we are ready to strike.

 

[Grifftavian]

Comments in Maroon

St. Pete had its water supply poisoned, so it will slowly recover over the next 6-turns. OK, I'll go with Wealth after it completes the Tank it is currently building.
Rostov has a Scientist hired. Please fire him to work the mine west of the city, takes 2-turns off the time to complete 3Gorges. Good idea, will do!
Orleans - I wonder if we should change some of these Scientists to Merchants, throughout the empire? Might be a good idea, especially in cities without a University. I'll make a note to check... all 26 cities!
Rheims - think we should stop growth and use the citizen working the coast tile as an Engineer? Rheims is at its happy limit, so we might as well change the citizen to an Engineer. OTOH, Rheims could support 6 Engineers, so we could consider some happiness and health buildings, and letting it grow.

We have a lot of work to do in the new occupied zone. We need hammers: workshops, watermills and windmills. Yes, indeed. I've got some Worker builds in the pre-play plan. Plenty of work for them to do!

The Great Merchant will yield 2500 Gold, giving us over 5,000 Gold in the treasury. That is enough for 20 turns at our current consumption. Perhaps we should set cities to wealth in order to stay in that range and the rest get set to science? Should be able to do that, between building Wealth and changing most specialists to Merchants. Moscow has an Academy + Oxford U., so it should probably stay on Research. I see that London and Beijing also have an Academy, but they will have some infrastructure to replace for a few turns. Beijing also has a Military Academy!

If we need culture, hire an Artist or two. I would try to keep the slider at 100% research as much as possible. Yea, I've given up on that building culture idea, forgot we had the Creative trait as well as being in Caste System.

btw - Plastic Ducks must have finished as I saw Kossin posted in Fifth Element's thread. They are at the same date as us currently. They probably got invaded by Churchill, De Gaulle, Mao & Roosevelt at the same time. I wonder which one captured their last city?

cross-post with Fred

 

[Grifftavian]

My comments in Maroon

Comments to the plan:

When we get "Hoover" (3Gorges) all cities will become healthy so please remove all health buildings from the plan. Oops! Hoover Dam was an earlier version of Civilization; showing my age! I will remove the health buildings as you suggest.

We have plenty of places to build units so please remove all barracks from the plan. Might as well let the cities with no barracks be the ones building wealth/workers. OK, but I noted that Kransno has no city defenders, and Khabar only has a Chariot. We may need to build some Infantry in St. Pete, and transport them down to these cities.

In Chengdu and Hastings build libraries instead of theaters. In Paris build forge instead of lighthouse (for happiness and production.) OK on Chendu & Hastings, did you mean London instead of Paris?

Don't build workers in small cities that have growth potential. OK.

I think Paris should keep building a couple of cannons and Rheims possibly a couple of battleships. OK.

I think we can postpone a decision on the GS until we want to start researching Fission. Might as well keep an option open for a GA I will keep the GS in reserve.

Worker actions: Most important task right now is to scrub AND improve tiles for our new cities. Concentrate on one tile at at a time, it's better to have one scrubbed tile with a workshop than two scrubbed, unimproved tiles. London should have priority - it's potentially a good place to produce units with those 2 instructors. OK.

The workers on the Khabarovsk/Krasnoyarsk island are almost out of work. Move all of them except one (that finishes scrubbing) to the main land. OK, I'll send them over.

Building railroads has very low priority because we already have RR all the way to Nottingham and also all the way to Shanghai. Do we need to extend the railroad from Shanghai to the American Border? There are a couple of Gems Mines & a Quarry around Rheims that could use a Railroad for the +1 bonus, but probably a low priority over scrubbing and improving newly acquired territory.

Agree with leif regarding Rostov and I would go even further and stop working the coast tile and hire an engineer. City won't loose pop before 3Gorges is done. OK

When we have peace with China remember to readjust science to 100%. OK

Do we want to consider building a third city on the island east on the K-cities?

 

[Mad Professor]

I think Fred and Leif have added some good comments and you've responded to them. The only thing I can add is to suggest you look at when the English and Chinese cities are coming out of rioting and see if you can't do some scrubbing meanwhile so they are more productive when they come out of rioting. Several cities there won't do much as things are at the moment - it would be good to see if we can remove some of that fallout first.

 

[zamint3]

Plastics will obsolete fur, so we might have to run 20% culture until peace with Mao!

We should make a decision regarding the GGs. I agree with Hawk in promoting some tanks, maybe use one as an instructor in Rheims to get the 5XP. Yaro and Rheims are already producing a tank each turn, so I don't really see the need for a Mil Academy.

I think we should run a GA when London gets out of anarchy!


- I think Plastic Ducks won their game, but played a very, very, very long last turnset.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Plastics will obsolete fur, so we might have to run 20% culture until peace with Mao!

We should make a decision regarding the GGs. I agree with Hawk in promoting some tanks, maybe use one as an instructor in Rheims to get the 5XP. Yaro and Rheims are already producing a tank each turn, so I don't really see the need for a Mil Academy.

Z3 is right, you probably need to go for 20% culture when we loose the fur because it's -2 happy faces in all cities with markets.

I think a Military Academy in Yaro would be a good idea. You can always use extra hammers and Yaro is not producing 180 hammers per turn which is the cost of a tank. The last two we may want to use to promote a few tanks. Those tanke armies attacking Canterbury and Oxford will not have any means of removing cultural defenses because there is no time to bring cannons and bombard. We need really strong units for this 3 turn blitz krieg to work.

 

[zamint3]

Two turns ago Fred estimated 135 turns to finish. (I know we did tech a bit slow at that time)
With 16 days to go this is an average of about 8.3 turns a day!
How do we manage that?

 

[leif erikson]

We need to keep turn sets moving.

If worse comes to worse, one of us may have to do a marathon session. Been done before, but we will finish...

 

[leif erikson]

A scrubbing war will be relatively slow so we can't really do this with Churchill since we already have lots of WW in relation to him. This leaves only a super fast conquest war: We move in simultaneously on all his remaining cities except Leeds which will be his final refuge. The rest of the game could play out as follows:

1. Short conquest war (4-5 turns) against Churchill
2. Conquest wars against Stalin and Gandhi.
3. Scrubbing war against Roosevelt.
4. Space ship built

To implement this we need to move all our infantry and galleons to Guangzhou (Keep 1-2 galleons to ferry infantry from London to Nottingham and tanks from Nottingham to London. We want two tank armies in Nottingham and London ready to strike against Canterbury and Oxford and a mix of infantry, cannons and tanks loaded in boats ready to sail for Newcastle, Coventry, Warwick. We can scout with airships to find out how big the armies need to be for each city. It's a race against time because we don't want Churchill to get infantry before we are ready to strike.

Then we should also find a final home for Gandhi soon, perhaps where our two tanks are on the island to the east? We do not want to have to wait to strike until we have him settled somewhere?

Might it be better to settle him to the north of his current homeland?

 

[Grifftavian]

Thanks for all the suggestions! I've updated my Pre-Play Plan to Version 2.

Looks like everyone has had a chance to comment (Earth to R1, Earth to R1, come in R1!). I may be able to play a few turns this afternoon, ~3 to 4 hours from this post, if there are no additional comments or suggestion.

 

[Frederiksberg]

With the loss of fur I think our happiness issues are serious enough to make Broadway something worth considering. I suggest we build it in Rheims and postpone those battleships. Perhaps build Rocknroll as well when Radio is discovered.

I don't see any mention of moving galleons in preparation for blitz war against Churchill. It's essential we start moving our galleons and transport towards Guangzhou immediately. Keep 2 galleons to ferry infantry from London back to Nottingham and tanks in the other direction and keep one galleon near our eastern islands to ferry workers back and forth. Everything else that can sail goes to Guangzhou.

Idea is to build two tank stacks in Nottingham and York/London and 3 stacks carried by galleons/transports in Guangzhou with infantry, cannons and perhaps also a few tanks. Any scouting should be directed towards the English cities.

Also don't see any mention of adjusting culture slider: First to 20% when plastic obsoletes fur and then back to 0% (and science to 100%) when we have peace with China. In the peace deal we should also ask Mao to adopt Caste - I suppose this could reduce emancipation problems.

 

[Mad Professor]

In the peace deal we should also ask Mao to adopt Caste - I suppose this could reduce emancipation problems.

Not an opportunity to be missed. If he'll do this as well as giving us Mil Sci., that would be nice. It sure can't hurt!

 

[Ronnie1]

Catching up on reading now, spent a few days around new years with my folks and drove home yesterday. I'll have more comments a little later after I see the save. In general, I think we need to focus our cities on what they are best at. Let the military/production cities handle the troop building, let the rest build wealth so we keep teching as high as possible given happy constraints.

 

[leif erikson]

Thinking we do need to move assets around to support the attack on England. WW is too big an issue to do anything slowly there.

If we get Military Science, as Fred said, a Military Academy is necessary in Yaro.

Building Broadway and Rock n' Roll seem necessary given our happiness situation, and it isn't going to get better.

Where do we want to settle Gandhi?

 

[Grifftavian]

Updated Pre-Play plan to Version 2A with most of Fred's latest suggestions.

Only 5 turns to build Broadway in Rheims; gives us another happy face in each city, and a new resource to trade or sell. Fred & Leif like the idea, & sound good to me, anyone else? Rock & Roll should take a similar number of Rheims.

What does everyone think about building The Statue of Liberty in Krasnoyarsk? 27 free Merchant specialists should help the Treasury deficit a little.

 

[Ronnie1]

Is Research in Moscow better than WEALTH? I think if we are still negative, wealth is better. Once we have enough cities building wealth that a city can go to research without going negative, then research would be better.

 

[Ronnie1]

Still catching up on reading while looking at save.

I really think we need to consider civics changes.

Are we sure that the AI won't scrub if we get them Ecology?

If we are going down the late game happy wonder road, then we should build Eiffel Tower for free culture and +2 or 3 happy everywhere.

 

[zamint3]

Only 5 turns to build Broadway in Rheims; gives us another happy face in each city, and a new resource to trade or sell. Fred & Leif like the idea, & sound good to me, anyone else? Rock & Roll should take a similar number of Rheims.

I'm OK with this, we don't need that many more units.

What does everyone think about building The Statue of Liberty in Krasnoyarsk? 27 free Merchant specialists should help the Treasury deficit a little.

Not a good idea, I don't think that's on the same continent as our mainland , but maybe in Novgorod. Beakers from specialist are better than beakers from hammers, the latter not being multiplied!

 

[Ronnie1]

You need to look at tile use city by city Griff. We are not using our best tiles everywhere, a few examples of un-worked tiles.

Iron mine by either St Petes or Moscow 6 yield tile (7 with rails) but + more hammers with modifiers.
Silver mine in Novgorod 10 yield tile!!!
Riverside mine in Rostov 6 yield tile, but +10 hammers with modifiers, especially when building Hoover

St Petes needs a Aqueduct or Grocer or both, even Hoover will not keep it from starving. With proper health buildings here it can work the Iron mine and the other mine for +12 base hammers. Aqueduct can be built BEFORE it starves to stave off starvation. Then add a mine to speed Grocer, then it will grow again.

We need to look at what specialists we are running also.

Example is Vladivostok....we are running 3 engineers in stead of merchants. Are we going for a GE? If not, then 3 merchants + working the workshops is better value for us IMO.

I think we need to get 1 of our troop builders on Marines for Stalin. We should be able to take all 3 cities in 1-2 turns with no losses/minimal losses due to nukes if we prepare properly.

What does everyone think about building The Statue of Liberty in Krasnoyarsk?

Wrong continent......X-posted