SGOTM 13 - Spooks

[killercane]

It brings up a menu of civs to contact. If your unit touches the borders of a civ you havent met yet (ie, you cant bring them up through the diplomacy window) you can contact them. Very handy in those situation where you touch the very corner of their culture and your suicide ship is about to sink!

 

[Andronicus]

It brings up a menu of civs to contact. If your unit touches the borders of a civ you havent met yet (ie, you cant bring them up through the diplomacy window) you can contact them. Very handy in those situation where you touch the very corner of their culture and your suicide ship is about to sink!

Excellent thanks

 

[Paul#42]

You keep learning new things after years...

 

[Paul#42]

Right now it looks like team Spooks is reduced to three players.
I pmed Redbad and Abegweit to get them back, let's wait another day for their input.

For the next set I see the following objectives:

1. Place warriors in Edo to direct the palace there. It gets us 5 BGs without the need to build a useless lib or temple there.
2. Press <ctrl>-D to meet whoever is ahead of our curragh.
3. Get most out of the lit deal, especially CoL, Phil, IW and money! HBR I'd like to delay to be able to build some chariots.
4. Build a temple in Nara, sell it after getting one (or rather five?) turn's accumulated culture if we got the incense tile (roaded)
5. road BG and grass NW of Nara to allow immediate attack on the declaration turn with cats and warriors from the BG.
6. build raxes only in Edo and Nagoya (switch now!), all other towns (but Kagoshima) will be gifted.
7. resettle (New) Kyoto right on the spot. Build workers there (and in Osaka and Tokyo).

Anything to add or object?

Should we gift-and-retake (New) Kyoto and Tokyo?
Can we be sure that our harbors there persist the retake?
We won't need any chariots there, Osaka will have superiority regarding the first-ring-tiles claimed by both towns so a warrior can retake.
I think it's worth the risk of losing a harbor or two.

 

[Andronicus]

Right now it looks like team Spooks is reduced to three players.
I pmed Redbad and Abegweit to get them back, let's wait another day for their input.

Roster
killercane (up)
Andronicus (on deck)
Paul#42 (just played)

Abegweit - whenever reappears
Redbad - whenever reappears

PS you asked Wacken's opinion in a previous post, however, as he has read other posts he has disqualified himself from helping us

For the next set I see the following objectives:

1. Place warriors in Edo to direct the palace there. It gets us 5 BGs without the need to build a useless lib or temple there. Agree
2. Press <ctrl>-D to meet whoever is ahead of our curragh. Can we do this now?
3. Get most out of the lit deal, especially CoL, Phil, IW and money! HBR I'd like to delay to be able to build some chariots. I would like to get maths if at all poss, not just for cats, but to be closer to construction and currency, both vital for us to get some economy going in republic
4. Build a temple in Nara, sell it after getting one (or rather five?) turn's accumulated culture if we got the incense tile (roaded) OK, ? whip
5. road BG and grass NW of Nara to allow immediate attack on the declaration turn with cats and warriors from the BG. Yep, roads then mine
6. build raxes only in Edo and Nagoya (switch now!), all other towns (but Kagoshima) will be gifted. At size 1 prevents America whipping when we dow
7. resettle (New) Kyoto right on the spot. Build workers there (and in Osaka and Tokyo). Agree

Anything to add or object?

Should we gift-and-retake (New) Kyoto and Tokyo? I suggest yes, the more apparent hurt we put on America the more generous the concessions
Can we be sure that our harbors there persist the retake? It's a risk
We won't need any chariots there, Osaka will have superiority regarding the first-ring-tiles claimed by both towns so a warrior can retake. Yes
I think it's worth the risk of losing a harbor or two. Agree

 

[Paul#42]

Roster
killercane (up)
Andronicus (on deck)
Paul#42 (just played)

Abegweit - whenever reappears
Redbad - whenever reappears

Yep, we cannot wait forever

PS you asked Wacken's opinion in a previous post, however, as he has read other posts he has disqualified himself from helping us

Yes I know and he does, too.

2. We can and I did. (great shortcut, KC! ) It's the Iroquois, as far as anybody (lacking lit )
3. Agreed, Maths over IW.
4. No need to whip, it will be ready (after palace jump 2spt and chop) when our America trades run out.
5. Those tiles need to be roaded and free of workers when we gift towns!
6. They cannot whip in Republic. They need to be size two so they don't autoraze as they have no culture (except Nara)
Instead of a harbor, New Kyoto might build a galley (or whatever it can finish before we gift it. It has to be size 2 when gifted, just as Tokyo
Don't know if autorazed towns annoy Lincoln more and makes hime more generous?

I prepared to screens for our retake szenario:

preparation: Road all tiles around Nara and Satsuma. Mining is nice but raoding all other tiles (short support line from and to Nagoya!) is more important.
Gifting turn is the turn our second deal with America (10 turns). Dow and Retake also. All units must leave the American sector!
All gifted cities must be size 2 (except Nara, we got culture there). They should end their production before gifted or build wealth the final turns.

We cannot attack Denver on the first turn. Baltimore we can only attack with fast units or warriors and cats we unload from a(ll) galley(s) in Nara after we retook it. Not sure if it's worth the effort. Two warriors and two cats is still weak...
We need two fast units to retake Satsuma and Nara (all tiles roaded!) instantly.
For New Kyoto and Tokyo warriors on the red dots (or in Osaka) will be sufficient, Osaka is older and will get all disputed tiles.

 

[killercane]

Gift and retake you can be beside the towns gifted with the warrior for no diplo penalty, so you can retake them the same turn.

 

[killercane]

Playing now.

 

[Paul#42]

Gift and retake you can be beside the towns gifted with the warrior for no diplo penalty, so you can retake them the same turn.

I'm almost sure it is not. You declare war when your units are in his cultural borders. You'll get a rep hit for that! No matter if the town is his origin or just recived in a gift.

DO NOT have any unit inside his borders when we declare!

Good luck and enjoy!

 

[killercane]

I'm almost sure it is not. You declare war when your units are in his cultural borders. You'll get a rep hit for that! No matter if the town is his origin or just recived in a gift.

DO NOT have any unit inside his borders when we declare!

Good luck and enjoy!

Nope see that Viking SGOTM when I thought the same thing.

Preturn

Change the two new core towns to rax and the incense town to harbor, move warrior to cure unhappy in our 2nd town (sorry I cant remember their names, ever). Meet Iro
I thought you met them and reuploaded? Regardless, they have 183 gold and are up all tech.

Interturn (after my computer draws power from the entire eastern seaboard to play the turn... its slowwwwwww with such a big save)

Trade with said Iroquois for 148 gold and CoL. Shop around... buy masonry from Portugal for gpt. Then trade them lit for mathematics and gpt back, trade for philo from Rome, sell Lit to Spain for 285 gold, and finally trade Warrior Code from Abe with a bit of gold for Lit. Everyone has currency and Republic . Set to Republic at 20% research/0gpt.

Nag-> Rax-> warrior
Capital abandoned.
WTH? I thought capital was supposed to go to Edo? Maybe Nag is better overall since it is more central? It can also take the American cities tiles...
Izumo founded and builds a cat.
I guess we can found another city to grab the bonus grass at Edo.

Turn 2

Moving some tiles around. We need growth on the old island for the gift and retake so they are building cats.

Turns 3-5

Just moving workers...

Im going to hand it off here as this is a little tedious.

The capital should take the American cities tiles via culture, letting us take it immediately... I think we should just raze the other American city and replace as it doesnt have any 2 food tiles.

We are almost set for attacking I think. Screenshots later.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm13/Spooks_SG013_BC0010_01.SAV

 

[Paul#42]

I had placed the three warriors in Nagoya before we decided where to move the palace... They should have moved to Edo.

good trades for lit!

We won't get any tiles from Denver by culture. It keeps its first ring no matter how much culture Nagoya gets.

I had not uploaded the game again, pressing ctrl-D is similar to shifting luxury slider, that's not playing but the kind of analysis every player is allowed to do with the save. Although borderline because it creates a (slightly) different situation.

I had thought we'd build a temple in Nara to claim incense and spare a turn on attack - but maybe units are a better investment?

I'll have a look at the save for further comments.

 

[Redbad]

I've come to say goodbye.
Wrt the civ game: I'm only playing and can't generate enough interest in to make a decent contribution to this sgotm.

I'm sorry it has to end this way , especially now the team probably is down to just 3 members; but playing on would be like pulling on a

All the best

 

[Paul#42]

That's a pity, Redbad.

Best of three decisions are easier to take, after all...

Our gpt-deal with America runs another five turns, we should gift and dow right on that turn.

That means all builds in gifted towns have to be finished on that inter-turn, all towns should be size 2 (or more) so they do not autoraze on retake. So workers.

I still think a temple in Nara would be nice to get the roaded incense hill for defense and attacking reason - but two cats might prove more valuable. A harbor I'd rather spare because it could get lost.

Can those cats from the old world take part in the attack? No need to build them if they can't be shipped over in time.
Satsuma should certainly build a cat rather than the harbor.

KC do you want to play the remainder of your set or shall Andro go on?

Republic at min sci is the way imo.

 

[killercane]

Yeah I'll play the rest tonight or tomorrow. Sorry to see you go Redbad.

 

[Paul#42]

Yeah I'll play the rest tonight or tomorrow.

Fine! Would be great if you found some time to post your plans in short.

 

[killercane]

I think the order of business will be build warriors from all rax cities and prepare the American attack with warriors in the requisite places. Finish the catapults on the island will probably be not necessary, but seems wasteful since it will be only a couple turns difference. Regardless I dont think the attack can happen in less than 5 turns so we can discuss it then. I didnt get around to it tonight as Ive been busy, but will try tomorrow.

 

[Paul#42]

With a ship chain set up it might make sense to build two of those three cats started in our old world. The other might be switched to a granary? However I'd favor an 11-shield-worker in Osaka.

You suggested to raze Baltimore - I'd rather keep it, it gets two whales after cultural expansion and will be quite productive when it get's a harbor.
Abe followed my dot map quite closely

Satsuma should defintely be switched to a cat.

And roading the tiles down south has priority over mining - we need to have our troops moving around there.

 

[killercane]

With a ship chain set up it might make sense to build two of those three cats started in our old world. The other might be switched to a granary? However I'd favor an 11-shield-worker in Osaka.

You suggested to raze Baltimore - I'd rather keep it, it gets two whales after cultural expansion and will be quite productive when it get's a harbor.
Abe followed my dot map quite closely

Satsuma should defintely be switched to a cat.

And roading the tiles down south has priority over mining - we need to have our troops moving around there.

Baltimore (incense city) will autoraze. Check on Satsuma. There are 6 workers moving in tandem there. I think all roads will be in place next turn. Again, our gift and retake cities will be snatched right back on the same turn. The next turn the American cities should fall. I guess probably about 6 of the workers should remain south to road the incense if its not roaded yet (cant recall, I think its not).

 

[Paul#42]

If Baltimore should autoraze, we should build a settler soon to resettle on the same spot. But in five turns (in Republic?) it could well be size 2

I'm still surprised that our warriors may be on american soil when we dow and we don't get a rop rep hit.
But if you say you are sure we don't, go ahead.
(I tend to be wrong on occasion... )

 

[killercane]

If Baltimore should autoraze, we should build a settler soon to resettle on the same spot. But in five turns (in Republic?) it could well be size 2

I'm still surprised that our warriors may be on american soil when we dow and we don't get a rop rep hit.
But if you say you are sure we don't, go ahead.
(I tend to be wrong on occasion... )

I think posts #59-70 are what you are talking about in the linked thread.