SGOTM 13 - Spooks
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Nobody's playing rigth now and I'd think we would want to have the AI behaving "usually stupid". 
The AI workers will clear marsh and jungle after they improved everything else anyway - I think this won't slow down their pathetic development in any way, right?
I send a pm to Alan that he can fix our save now.
Abegweit as the next turn player, please make sure you download the correct save once Alan posted here a GPS (got it - patched it - sent it).
The AI workers will clear marsh and jungle after they improved everything else anyway - I think this won't slow down their pathetic development in any way, right?
I send a pm to Alan that he can fix our save now.
Abegweit as the next turn player, please make sure you download the correct save once Alan posted here a GPS (got it - patched it - sent it).
Andronicus
Emperor
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- Feb 18, 2005
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- 1,672
Yeah, I couldnt make up my mind if it is better to have AI clear marsh or not.
I would have thought it ideal for it to be the same for all teams (and hence no patch) as Klarius is certainly way advanced from us, but I suspect it doesnt matter too much.
I would have thought it ideal for it to be the same for all teams (and hence no patch) as Klarius is certainly way advanced from us, but I suspect it doesnt matter too much.
Abegweit, are you ready for another set?
I don't like the idea to pop-rush the settler. Unhappiness in Osaka would hurt us I think.
And I still think we should build that worker in Edo, if we get Osaka and Tokyo down to size 2 by building some workers, size 2 in Edo will be sufficient.
Tokyo should switch to a harbor before doing some workers. Granary is too expensive imo.
I also think we should settle orange dot now. After that I'd love to see what CA2 says about our "empire" with capital in either Edo or orange dot.
Any more thoughts on the situation?
I don't like the idea to pop-rush the settler. Unhappiness in Osaka would hurt us I think.
And I still think we should build that worker in Edo, if we get Osaka and Tokyo down to size 2 by building some workers, size 2 in Edo will be sufficient.
Tokyo should switch to a harbor before doing some workers. Granary is too expensive imo.
I also think we should settle orange dot now. After that I'd love to see what CA2 says about our "empire" with capital in either Edo or orange dot.
Any more thoughts on the situation?
Andronicus
Emperor
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all good by me ... Abegweit?
killercane
Deity
Well there are something like 168 worker turns for the 4 cities already down there. Plus I guess we make another city there? I think we need to make 15 workers then and get the job done in 20 turns and jump/join then. Short term loss for long term gain. Workers-> horses is much more important than losing 3 science in the capital, just a hunch.
KC, do you mean the jump should wait till the new core is completely improved? 
I'd think it's more important that we don't lose (too m)any production / research capacity. And that's already the fact now (if we can trust CA2 on the capital switch option). In some ten turns it will be clearly in favor for the new core.
The balance will only shift further towards our new core once we start improving tiles over there...
Abegweit, if you don't show up heer till tomorrow, I'd suggest we'll switch so we can go on.
Redbad, what do you think about jumping the palace?
I'd think it's more important that we don't lose (too m)any production / research capacity. And that's already the fact now (if we can trust CA2 on the capital switch option). In some ten turns it will be clearly in favor for the new core.
The balance will only shift further towards our new core once we start improving tiles over there...
Abegweit, if you don't show up heer till tomorrow, I'd suggest we'll switch so we can go on.
Redbad, what do you think about jumping the palace?
killercane
Deity
Well just guessing I would say until we are about size 4 in a couple of the cities down there or there are some workers ready for joining to make us size 3-4. We should have looked forward to this and made a granary in the 2nd town rather than cap but we didnt know much at that time.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Sorry. I was away for the weekend. In any case, it doesn't sound to me like the discussion about the capital jump is over so I didn't really think I was up.
I'll look at more deeply this evening (about 9 hours from now) when I have access to the game but, looking at it in CAII, I would have to say I am in agreement with the idea to make the jump as quickly as possible. Don't like whipping.
I'll look at more deeply this evening (about 9 hours from now) when I have access to the game but, looking at it in CAII, I would have to say I am in agreement with the idea to make the jump as quickly as possible. Don't like whipping.
KC, why would you want to delay the jump?
Because the lack of improvement in the new core? There's not too much improvement in the old core either.
By the time we jump, our new core will have more roads than the old one and mines to follow.
Or do you think we'll miss Kyoto's productivity and wealth? I think we won't feel better to abandon it if we add another harbor there now. It will still do 3-4spt after we jumped to Edo. The granary we'll miss for sure but a granary in the new world will be more effective.
Because the lack of improvement in the new core? There's not too much improvement in the old core either.
By the time we jump, our new core will have more roads than the old one and mines to follow.
Or do you think we'll miss Kyoto's productivity and wealth? I think we won't feel better to abandon it if we add another harbor there now. It will still do 3-4spt after we jumped to Edo. The granary we'll miss for sure but a granary in the new world will be more effective.
killercane
Deity
Because in 10 turns all the cities in the new core will be size 1 still, and we wont have many improved tiles to work yet anyways. So I think it will probably happen after the next 10 turns or we lose science and the production. Its hard to justify adding 10 turn growth workers built from that continent rather than 4-5 turn growth workers from the current main cities.
I don't want to add any workers. 
Edo will be size two in 13 turns (even though building that worker now) just as Osaka and Tokyo will be. A couple of (one?) warriors will make the difference, because the Palace does not jump to the nearest strong site but to the site that has the most towns around - and a warrior in it for the tie breaker.
Osaka and Tokyo won't build workers any slower (can they ) after the jump but our new core will build rax, granaries and horses much faster.
And by that time we will already have 5-7 workers from our old world working in the new world. The first couple will board right when the galleys are back. We'll even need both galleys there to ship over all those workers and warriors.
Edo will be size two in 13 turns (even though building that worker now) just as Osaka and Tokyo will be. A couple of (one?) warriors will make the difference, because the Palace does not jump to the nearest strong site but to the site that has the most towns around - and a warrior in it for the tie breaker.
Osaka and Tokyo won't build workers any slower (can they
) after the jump but our new core will build rax, granaries and horses much faster.And by that time we will already have 5-7 workers from our old world working in the new world. The first couple will board right when the galleys are back. We'll even need both galleys there to ship over all those workers and warriors.
Andronicus
Emperor
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The only valid reason I can see for delaying jumping palace now is if we could build 2 turn workers in Kyoto.
That requires a harbour and I dont think it is worth building a harbour, then a bunch of workers, just to lose both harbour and granary in a palace jump.
Better to jump now losing the granary - we could always build harbour and rebuild granary after jumping and have 2 turn worker pump in New Kyoto to quickly build up pop in the new world once we have construction.
That requires a harbour and I dont think it is worth building a harbour, then a bunch of workers, just to lose both harbour and granary in a palace jump.
Better to jump now losing the granary - we could always build harbour and rebuild granary after jumping and have 2 turn worker pump in New Kyoto to quickly build up pop in the new world once we have construction.
I prepared everything for the palace jump and build 12 workers in the span.
turn log
Pics
After flight check
12 workers we have - two on the jump, 10 working the New World.
Osaka needs to get an MP reassigned again.
Kyoto is arranged for the Palace jump.
Our warriors can decide where to set our capital, Edo or Nagoya.
Edo gets 5 BG after ten turns, Nagoya is slightly more central.
Also Literature due next turn, let's see what we get for it on the interturn.
We need to decide what's our priority. IW (and a lot of gold) might turn our warriors to deadly machines so we don't need to wait for horses.
Phil and CoL open the way to Republic - I doubt that we get that, but...
Or as we had planned: HBR to build horses.
Please discuss.
Here's the save.
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm13/Spooks_SG013_BC0110_01.SAV
turn log
Spoiler :
Pics
Spoiler :
After flight check
12 workers we have - two on the jump, 10 working the New World.
Osaka needs to get an MP reassigned again.
Kyoto is arranged for the Palace jump.
Our warriors can decide where to set our capital, Edo or Nagoya.
Edo gets 5 BG after ten turns, Nagoya is slightly more central.
Also Literature due next turn, let's see what we get for it on the interturn.
We need to decide what's our priority. IW (and a lot of gold) might turn our warriors to deadly machines so we don't need to wait for horses.
Phil and CoL open the way to Republic - I doubt that we get that, but...
Or as we had planned: HBR to build horses.
Please discuss.
Here's the save.
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm13/Spooks_SG013_BC0110_01.SAV
Andronicus
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2005
- Messages
- 1,672
Good to see this moving again. Havnt had time to look at the save, but my immediate thoughts are
1) Nagoya would be preferable as capital if we want to keep old world less corrupt (might still be able to get 2 turn worker factory to speed growth once we get construction)
2) What to trade for? Techs to help our commerce / production (CoL, rep, construction, currency) or techs to help military for taking over our new world (HBR, IW, maths)?
3) Do we build libs first, then military - delaying taking the 2 American towns, or immed rax and units, delaying libs until the island is secured?
What units do we want? Given America has feudalism we might be facing pikes. 2-3 pikes on a hill could be messy with only horses. Perhaps swords and cats might be better - any thoughts? Of course swords depend on us actually having iron. My bet is with everything else so unfavourable in a deity game, we ought to have iron on our starting island, maybe?
When we do declare on America they will have a turn to rush a unit in their southern city as even with horses we could not reach it in one turn. The northern town, however we could. So perhaps horses to northern town and swords / cats to southern would be ideal, but getting those 3 techs would be at expense of CoL and phil, thus delaying rep. Any thoughts?
I dont think we want to upgrade warriors to swords; we dont have vet warriors, upgrades are expensive (rather spend on getting rep sooner), and we cant be certain of having iron (I know, I argued above we likely do).
1) Nagoya would be preferable as capital if we want to keep old world less corrupt (might still be able to get 2 turn worker factory to speed growth once we get construction)
2) What to trade for? Techs to help our commerce / production (CoL, rep, construction, currency) or techs to help military for taking over our new world (HBR, IW, maths)?
3) Do we build libs first, then military - delaying taking the 2 American towns, or immed rax and units, delaying libs until the island is secured?
What units do we want? Given America has feudalism we might be facing pikes. 2-3 pikes on a hill could be messy with only horses. Perhaps swords and cats might be better - any thoughts? Of course swords depend on us actually having iron. My bet is with everything else so unfavourable in a deity game, we ought to have iron on our starting island, maybe?
When we do declare on America they will have a turn to rush a unit in their southern city as even with horses we could not reach it in one turn. The northern town, however we could. So perhaps horses to northern town and swords / cats to southern would be ideal, but getting those 3 techs would be at expense of CoL and phil, thus delaying rep. Any thoughts?
I dont think we want to upgrade warriors to swords; we dont have vet warriors, upgrades are expensive (rather spend on getting rep sooner), and we cant be certain of having iron (I know, I argued above we likely do).
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