SGOTM 14 - Ivan

[Othniel]

Since I'm up after Ignas, I thought I should mention that I will be unavailable to play from Nov. 26-30 for Thanksgiving festivities here in the States. That might mean I need to switch turnsets so that the game isn't held up too long.

 

[nerovats]

I still think ToA is a lot more important then Lighthouse, as distances are short, but culture will expand our borders and prevent flips. I think it should be first target after we control our continent.

 

[I. Larkin]

I still think ToA is a lot more important then Lighthouse, as distances are short, but culture will expand our borders and prevent flips. I think it should be first target after we control our continent.

Why? AFAIK ToA acts only on the Island where it is. It is just 4 Cities and as result we will have 8 cpt. Probably we will put more there on this Island but still... advantage is that we already have Galleys at East, but I'd rather send some part south. Probably we may do both (Maya and Japan) with RoP rape.

 

[Lanzelot]

Since I'm up after Ignas, I thought I should mention that I will be unavailable to play from Nov. 26-30 for Thanksgiving festivities here in the States. That might mean I need to switch turnsets so that the game isn't held up too long.

Othniel, if it's ok with you, we can swap for this turn. My wife and kids are currently visiting my parents-in-law and will return on Saturday, Nov 30. So for me it would be even better, if I can play now sometime between Nov 26-29 (as soon as "the guy with the green avatar" is finished with his little "clean-up project"... ), and then you can have your shot after Thanksgiving?!

Regards, Lanzelot

 

[I. Larkin]

OK, got it, will play in 16 hours.

Won't sign peace with Babylon. Also attention to posts 393, 395, 398 unless someone will post something different.

This posts contradict to each other somehow, but I hope you'll find a resonable compromise.

 

[I. Larkin]

Othniel, if it's ok with you, we can swap for this turn. My wife and kids are currently visiting my parents-in-law and will return on Saturday, Nov 30. So for me it would be even better, if I can play now sometime between Nov 26-29 (as soon as "the guy with the green" avatar is finished with his little "clean-up project"... ), and then you can have your shot after Thanksgiving?!

Regards, Lanzelot

Ok, it is set:
Ignas: Playing
Lanzelot: up
Othniel
I. Larkin
DWetzel
Eldar
nerovats -finished.
Sure we will need small pause for discussion
Topic to discuss: go to GP or not at all?
Research Invention or not?
Lanzelot wrote something already.
My short answers are: "no" and "no" but it is not final of course.

 

[Lanzelot]

Why? AFAIK ToA acts only on the Island where it is. It is just 4 Cities and as result we will have 8 cpt. Probably we will put more there on this Island but still... advantage is that we already have Galleys at East, but I'd rather send some part south. Probably we may do both (Maya and Japan) with RoP rape.

Yes, ToA is nearly worthless in this game... Ivan: we won't even get the culture points, because only the nation that first built it, gets the credit!

Ok, I guess everyone is in favour of letting Babylon have Istanbul... so be it then. (I only thought it would be nice to have it, after all: isn't it producing 5spt at the moment?! Don't have access to C3C right now.)

The RoP rape would probably be most useful for the "big continent" (German/Mongolian/Greek landmass), so I would like to keep the RoP rape option for invading that continent. For the smaller islands I think it's not worth it to blow our reputation yet.

Regarding the next target: how about Japan and India? The majority of our troops will be in Zululand, after ignas is finished. During that time our gallays can sail from Medina south and then transfer the troops over to India immediately. New galleys from the westcoast can meanwhile sail to Babylon to take the remaining troops there and transfer them to Japan.

The "Japanese army group" (+ reinforcements) can then continue clockwise (Japan -> Celts -> America) and the "Indian army group" (+ reinforcements) has several useful options after India. But before determining next targets, we should also take a detailed look at

• who does not yet have Feudalism
• who has no iron
• who does not yet have his unique unit

and then pick the "easy targets" first. I will do this, before starting my turnset.

Lanzelot

 

[eldar]

Ivan: we won't even get the culture points, because only the nation that first built it, gets the credit!

We still get the free temples, and the culture points for them. Not that it'd be helpful to us.

Note that the GLH really won't be useful to us at all with Diff Naval movement (unless it's modded to add 2 moves to naval units?)

Our Galleys will go from 7 to 8 moves. Assuming we don't do any moves in ocean tiles this game, that +1 move makes no difference to the range of our ships, except in some unlikely/unique circumstances. We will still only be able to make 3 moves in coastal waters (3+3+3) and 4 moves in sea tiles (2+2+2+2). About the only move now open to us that wasn't before is sea->sea->coast->coast (2+2+3+3) - not sure if there's anywhere where that would make a difference!

 

[Lanzelot]

We still get the free temples, and the culture points for them.

Oops, yes, forgot about those...

Regarding the GLH, we should perhaps ask Alan. Did not think about this so far, but up to now I assumed that the movement would go from 2*3+1 to 2*4+1 = 9

Lanzelot

 

[DWetzel]

408: Yes, that's true, but it may make some sailing paths easier/shorter to take with risk-free sea sailing.

 

[ignas]

Another interesting options is "pretend that we did it on purpose". Istambul will be prison for Babylons, just send Pickman to pillage around, catpture SoZ and demand the rest of the Cities. It is also will resolve Iron connect/disconnect problem and "flip risk of Istambul".

Good points, like this idea. Won't recapture Istanbul, just pillage around.

Playing now

 

[ignas]

Got interrupted yesterday, finished turnset now. Will post log in a few minutes.

 

[DWetzel]

*holds breath*

Upload the save first so we can guess how well you did.

 

[Lanzelot]

Yes, I am also constantly clicking the "Refresh" on the Results & Progress page at the moment...

 

[ignas]

Not much happened.
Here comes chaotic turnlog.

170 BC: MM a bit;
Sell barracks in Istanbul;
Move some galleys near Medina towards Japan as I suppose it’s our next target;
Spend gold, embassy in Japan to have a better picture

IBT: lose Istanbul

150 BC: moving forces;

IBT: kill an archer on defence and lose a knight to bab sword

130 BC: shortrush; moving forces, no roads slows us

IBT: lose a knight to counterattack, Babs are still throwing some vet swords at us

110 BC: moving forces to Eridu, finally ready to attack next turn

IBT: resistance in Moscow ends;

90 BC: kill 3 units in Eridu and take it without loss with barracks and 3 slaves inside;
Exploring a bit

IBT: Mongols sign Egypt vs us

70 BC: sink Roman galley that was near Lisbon;
We have 1200 gold, preparing to disconnect iron next turn and switch to horses in low production towns

IBT: kill 2 Bab swords on defence, lose knight to ACav;
Resistance in Yaroslavl and Eridu ends;

50 BC: approaching Nineveh and Ashur;
While fishing for a leader lose Elite horse to reg Bab sword that came out of Istanbul, then knight kills that sword; have revenge and kill ACav;
Crusader kills Russian spear and promotes to elite
Pillage Bab iron;
Pillage our iron, switch some towns to horse builds; reconnect iron to get commerce back from a roaded tile;
We have 36 knights

IBT: kill 2 Bab swords on defence;
6 knights and 3 horses produced this turn;

30 BC: upgrade 3 horses and we are up to 45 knights;
Capture Nineveh with a loss of 1 knight;
Ashur is captured with a loss of 1 knight;
Found a town in ex Babylonia with an Ottoman settler, no benefit having settler running around and paying support for it;
Ironless Babylon got Feudalism on IBT;
Illegally scout Zulu territory with knights as I suppose they are next

IBT: AI units patrolling;
2 horses built

10BC: 2 horses upgraded to knights;
Lose a knight while capturing Ellipi;
Approach Babylon

IBT: 3 knights and a horse produced

10 AD: kill 5 spears and capture Babylon with a loss of a knight;

IBT: ACav out of Babylon;
Lyons deposes us and joins the French

30 AD: few more horses upgraded and we reach 50 knights mark;
Preparing attack on Zulu next turn;
Zulu got Feudalism this turn

IBT: Rome unloads legion near Paris

50 AD: no legion near Paris, probably got disbanded as they have no money to pay support;
Make sure we have no units in Zulu territory and declare war;
Kill 2 Impi’s in Intombe without loss and capture the town;
Move a stack of 17 knights towards Bapedi to attack next turn;
Better to wait in Medina zone for their initial stack, kill it and push forward towards Isanlhwana, Zimbabwe
Kill few more archers wandering around;

We are up to 54 knights and 13 galleys (more galleys should be in order), paying 22 gpt for support (need some towns in ex-Babylonia to lower this and to grab more tiles towards domination).

 

[DWetzel]

Useful.

I think that settlers can wait for our continent actually. Which sounds weird. I mean, we need to be able to get them in place quickly... but those cities won't help us much, and we don't need the domination tiles until we're ready (except as a tiebreaker for score, I guess). But I'd rather rush units and go kick more butt.

Plus, I'd love to see the other team's faces when we add 300 tiles in 1 turn somehow.

 

[DWetzel]

It appears from the screen shot that Russia is down to one city... are we going to gift them something elsewhere to take Rostov out? (Maybe a secondary city in Japan?)

 

[I. Larkin]

no benefit having settler running around and paying support for it;

It was unique slave settler. We did not pay support for it.

Plus, I'd love to see the other team's faces when we add 300 tiles in 1 turn somehow

Now klarius ahead in teretory, (first time in the game).

 

[ignas]

It was unique slave settler. We did not pay support for it.

I know, but we got 2gpt from it (1from city center and 1from unit support), also territory graph looks better .

I think that settlers can wait for our continent actually

Sure, I meant not in an immeadiate future where we need to get settlers ASAP, I meant some time in future .

Probably peace with Russia. Peace with Babs is risky as we might lose some town to a flip.

Japan after Zulu? There are 7 galleys near Japan.

GA will end soon, some MM will be needed, balance between handbuilt knights and horses for upgrading. We will make around 220gpt when not in GA.

Settler from Lisbon when out of GA as it has full food box.

Anyone looked at QSC stats? We are the only in Monarchy. Teams klarius and elite in fast research towards cavs (each have few libs pre 1000BC). Spooks probably like us will conquer with knights.

 

[Lanzelot]

I'll take a look at the save, when I get home from work, and then post a proposed plan for discussion.

Looks like someone in team klarius now noticed that this is a dom game and not a 100K... They have overtaken us
But I think no reason for panic: we are leading in score, so I would say we still have more towns/population. Their lead in territory is probably due to their increased culture, and this can be caught up as soon as we decide to go for culture as well. But for now I aggree with DWetzel: no large-scale culture needed at the moment. Rather keep concentrating on military, and only when the number of "unclaimed" tiles is about the same as our number of tiles missing for domination, we should start rushing temples. (The optimal point in time would be, when:
unclaimed tiles + 5 * tiles we conquer per turn == missing tiles
But I digress...)

Lanzelot