SGOTM 14 - Ivan

[AlanH]

SGOTM 14 - Humanitarian Portuguese Domination
Welcome to your SGOTM 14 Team thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game here, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest. I hope you enjoy the game.

The starting saves will become available on the SGOTM Progress and Results page on October 18th, at midnight, server local time.

Henry of Portugal intends to dominate the world, but he also wants to conserve as much as possible of its cultural diversity. This is a Demigod game, on a standard archipelago map. Thanks go to Ivan Larkin and CommandoBob for assembling the specification for this game. You can see the discussions leading to it in this thread.

The winning laurels will be awarded to the team that reaches a fast Domination victory with the highest "humanitarian" score. Each civilization that is still alive in your victory save will add ten points to your score. Each turn that you take to reach victory will deduct one point from your score.

The game will be played to GOTM standards. No one plays the save except the current team player. No replays except in the event of a crash. Set autosaves for every turn so that you only replay the current turn if you suffer a crash.

Here's the start. All the food, shields and luxuries you could wish for . Click the picture for a bigger image.

​

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - Portugal
Difficulty - Demi-god
Opponents - 24
World - Standard (100 x 50), Archipelago, 60% water
Barbarians - Roaming

The map may have been tweaked

Game mods:
We shall use the default rules as defined in the SGOTM Reference Thread. Note that Differential Naval Movement remains a feature of the SGOTM scenarios.

All the AI civs have been provided with additional defence in the form of a Pikeman to reduce the chances of too many AI-on-AI deaths.

In a deal which includes a resource, a millitary alliance or a trade embargo, the human player is not allowed to pay the AI more gpt to AI than the AI demands.

Detailed discussions of the reasoning surrounding this are available starting here in the SGOTM 13 sign-up thread, as well as in a number of other HoF and GOTM-related forums.

The SGOTM Mediterranean resources are included. If you have played previous SGOTMs then you will be ready. Other players will need to download and unzip a small graphics mod pack linked in the Reference thread.

Please ensure that you have included the line: NoAIPatrol=0 in your conquests.ini text file:

A 'fix' for the Barbarians!:
As many of you know, the barbarians in C3C are 'broken'. This can be fixed by going to your \Conquest\ folder, and opening your Conquests.ini file, and adding a line noaipatrol=0 to the file. Whilst we cannot force people to do this, it will make the game a bit more interesting if you do. If you are not comfortable editing your .ini file, you can download a utility here to do it automatically.

Players running Civ3 Complete for Macintosh should contact me if they have any problems with the mod. If they are not running a patched version they will need to use FileValet to compress their saves for upload, and they may also need to use it to 'clean' downloaded saves before playing.

Please visit the following links to ensure that you are adequately prepared, skipping references to PtW or Vanilla versions of Civ3.

The GOTM Reference Thread.
The SGOTM Reference Thread.

Notes:

• ONLY Conquests version 1.22 (C3C) is supported for this SGOTM.
  
  
• All teams will compete for a single award set:
  [img=right]http://gotm.civfanatics.net/players/awards/redlaurel14.gif[/img] The Crimson Laurels will be awarded for the Domination victory with the most civs still alive, and in the least turns. Each live civ adds ten points. Each turn taken to achieve victory deducts one point. If two teams score the same then the most humanitarian team wins - the one with more civs alive. If this figure is also equal then the Jason scores will be the tie breaker.
  
  
  
  
  [img=right]http://gotm.civfanatics.net/players/awards/woodenspoon14.gif[/img] The Wooden Spoons are for the lowest Jason-scoring finish, win or lose, but you have to try to win!
  
  
  
  
  
• All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.
  
• Have fun, and be nice to each other

 

[eldar]

I'm here. I'll think about things when it's not so early.

 

[DWetzel]

I'm here. I'll think about things when it's not so early.

This covers it for me too.

 

[I. Larkin]

I am in.
And I am "up".

What the rest of roster? Any prefernces?

Never managed that big team yet.

Will write more soon.

 

[I. Larkin]

Ignas:

Since there are 25 AI's land will be grabbed very fast. Maybe barracks instead of a granary is better? We could produce a veteran unit and still a settler every 8 turns. But still it's early to talk, first 10 scout moves will reveal position we are in, how crowded our island is
Game starts on the 18th. I will show up 2-3 days later.

I.La:

My plan is Curragh, warrior, Settler, warrior or Granary. If they close there is no time to 40 Sci Barracks, just wall off warriors to block them.
If they are far Granary is handy.
Or may be skeep Curragh?

Ignas:

build order looks good, curraghs are essential, I think we need at least 2 of them to get contacts ASAP (2nd curragh could be built a bit later in the second town if it's on coast).
What about research? Writing at max to try get the slingshot? Slingshot is doable, but very hard to get with so many AI's. Aztecs very like Writng->philo route route.

 

[I. Larkin]

Research at Writing->Phylo at max.
Preferably no Tech trade before.
At fuull speed research Phylo come at 48-55 turn. It is essential to trade IBT to get Monarchy or Construction. If this will not worrk just Lit or MMaking.
Who fill comfortable to care about this?
Proposed Roster:
I. Larkin
eldar
Nerovats
Ignas
DWetzel
Othniel
Lantzelot

 

[nerovats]

The clambs and irriagted cow will we make a 4 turner, leaving the wheat for other city. We've got lot of commerce so tech speed should be ok. This many ai will surly mean we can trade for every tech later if we get a monopoly on something. I would not get lit if we get philo first. AI will neglect and it should give us a monopoly even when research ourselves after, better to have another one which is harder to get. Probably don't need a wonder.

An extra worker in the build order will let us chop three forrests for granary. Might be better then settler first. Say curagh, warrior, worker, granary, settlers. Worker will Irrigate+road the cow then start chop ivory forrest. 6 turns to grow and get first curagh, 4 turns for warrior 3 for worker. That turn chop complete and go into granary. Then both workers chop. (first worker roads the ivory first). Send scout north to hill, then cirkel clockwise to get immediate surrounds to get dotmap.

Do we have chance of CoL->Philo, ai won't have much room so it might, as we are commerce and food rich. I never seem to play DG though, so am not sure.

For roster I'd change Ignas and DWetzel, player level in your suggestion is D,E,D,D,E,E so think we sould even that out.

 

[I. Larkin]

Trade via big picture is hard exersise and need some experience. With Phylo sling you do it twise one by one. At my preliminary calculs it is may be Turn 48. But may be later.
But turns before also may important...
Proposed Roster:(v2).
I. Larkin
DWetzel
eldar
Nerovats
Ignas
Othniel
Lantzelot

 

[eldar]

Clams will only give us 2f in Despo w/o Harbor so we will need the Wheat+Cow to start with.

Otherwise I like nerovat's plan for a 2nd worker to get the granary quicker.

 

[Othniel]

Reporting in. Thanks for adding me to the roster, Ivan.

I'm comfortable at Deity too, so I don't know if you want to mix up the nerovats--ignas--me order. Though it probably won't matter too much and I don't personally care.

If the scout finds another +4fpt spot, I might favor going for the settler before granary. On a tight island especially, getting another high food city early can payoff. But if the only food bonuses are what we see know, the quick granary idea can work.

I know that nerovats' sequence was a preliminary thing, but I don't think it will work exactly. I did a quick and dirty, and incomplete, spreadsheet (attached at bottom) and I think his sequence would get the first chop too fast. Unless I'm mistaken, our city center only gets 1spt and so we won't produce the curragh until turn 8. If we use this sequence, as an alternative, I propose we send the first worker to road the plains ivory before sending him to a chop spot.

Either way, I'd like to see some spreadsheets on early granary vs. early settler. Of course we should wait until we see a little more land from the scout before running the sheets.

 

[eldar]

I'll be working up a sheet at some point over the w/e, maybe tonight if it's quiet after dinner (no baseball game on TV tonight!).

On research I'd be inclined to go Writing->Philo and see what we can trade for.

 

[Renata]

AutomatedTeller is joining you as an "official" lurker.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

lurker's comment:
hey guys - I can't play (I'm not terribly reliable with SG's), but I told ivan I'd lurk.

With these settings, start and no other seafaring civs, I think the Philo slingshot is very doable.

You've got 2 luxes, lots of food, start with alpha AND pottery and will get lots of contacts.

And none of the other civs tend to beeline philo (or at least, do so AND start with alpha).

 

[nerovats]

Let's at least start on max on writing, will take something like 40 turns anyway, then decide CoL or philo.
Can test my calculations later today.

 

[I. Larkin]

Download save and setlle on spot. Nothing special. I am traveling today night, but may play now, if no objection. I think there is no reason for early chop and Granary. Eldar knows why. Most flexible Curragh, Warrior, Settler.
Who is next eldar or GWetzel?

 

[DWetzel]

Up to you all. I can go either way. I'm pretty good on the domestic front (tech trades, city management), less so on warfare.

 

[I. Larkin]

Up to you all. I can go either way. I'm pretty good on the domestic front (tech trades, city management), less so on warfare.

OK, lets assume v2 Roster.
I. Larkin
DWetzel
eldar
Nerovats
Ignas
Othniel
Lantzelot
I am playing now , as everybody agreed irr Cow and Curragh. (7 -8) turns
But what next? If no good reason appear I will put screens and stop for today, and continue tomorrow after discussion.

 

[I. Larkin]

I put it inside for more sensible discussion.
Basic question
1)shall we Trade or not? Or next turn?
2) What woker will do next? (I prefer road plain Ivory and irrigate Wheat next)
3) is warrior OK?
(We have contact with Am, Otto, Arabia, and Zulu(?) border visible.
In discussion we may refer to CivAssist coordinate system. (Black and white figures).

 

[DWetzel]

Whee, it's sure crowded. Which is not unexpected.

I'd say it makes sense to hit that dark green border (at 40/34) next turn. That's gotta be either Japan or Zulu. If it's Japan, they'll have Wheel, and we can pull some interesting trades out of that. If it's Zulu (and that's my first guess), that will at least make WC cheaper. Either way, they won't have Alphabet, which is a plus.

Right now we could get CB+BW+30g from Ottomans, and almost certainly parlay that into Masonry from America. However, Arabia won't even give WC for Alphabet--either they are researching Alpha or they know a bunch of people with it--almost certainly the former.

I'd be inclined to trade next turn once we know the dark green identity--that should bring down the costs of the other techs even more.



On the worker front, I think road plains ivory is obvious. After that, is it worth it to road and *gulp* mine the wine hill? That's a very pretty 2/2/2 that also keeps the lux down for max research since we're going that route.

If we aren't chopping the granary, I almost wonder if we should spew a settler out very quickly (i.e. after this warrior), and then chop another settler. We're going to be VERY short on space early on, that much is obvious; the granary is nice but a 4-turn settler factory does us no good if we don't have anywhere to put more than two cities.

 

[eldar]

I'm not sure I'd want to waste 12 worker turns [mining the Wines] this early just to get an extra shield - unless we really, really, need it? I would say no, not with 3 BGs in the eventual radius. Road it, sure - it will get +1 commerce from that even in Despo - but otherwise leave it be.

Have we decided if we are going for SoZ or not? Maths is likely to fall quickly after Writing becomes known, and if our Ivory is not a monopoly SoZ will go in the Pyramids/Oracle cascade (usually around 1000BC?) So if we want SoZ, we need a prebuild, and for that we need Masonry.

On spewing an early settler - what is there NE & SW of Lisbon? If there's +4fpt there then I'd go settler, otherwise the best we have is +3fpt (wheat @ 30/30) and that would mean a city at CxxxC when we could (possibly) get 2 at CxxC along the river to the SE. Can we get a new Scout out after the Warrior - which I think we DO need for defense as much as for MP? Then the chop can go to a granary or a settler, whichever we eventually decide on.

[Edit]
What to do with the worker - I think the best thing to do to delay the chop so it goes to something >10 shields is to road the Ivory first, then go chop the Ivory forest. I'm more inclined to a 2nd Scout than a 2nd Worker now, we have quite a bit of land to explore. 3 BGs+Wines will be enough shields for now and we can steadily get them improved, and of course both our food bonuses have shields too.

[Edit2]
On trade, again - well I'd certainly wait 'til we meet the dark borders Civ first before trading. Hopefully they will have WC too and we can use Alpha to trade for the whole first tier except Wheel. Unless they're Japan, not knowing Masonry yet... so yeah definitely wait 'til we know them first.