SGOTM 14 - klarius
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Northern Pike
Deity
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Good work against Arabia, and I'm glad to see you sent units into Russia too. 
The Babylonians are down to two cities, and apparently still losing ground. We may have to make peace with them and gift them a refuge city soon. Our anti-Bab alliance with the Russians has reached the twenty-turn mark.
Klarius
Elephantium
Northern Pike
Overseer
Rat--already played
Great Beyond--UP
Vind
The Babylonians are down to two cities, and apparently still losing ground. We may have to make peace with them and gift them a refuge city soon. Our anti-Bab alliance with the Russians has reached the twenty-turn mark.
Klarius
Elephantium
Northern Pike
Overseer
Rat--already played
Great Beyond--UP
Vind
TheOverseer714
Overseer
10 cavalry used correctly can go a long way toward taking Russia down. We can have our useful land to ourselves and our retired enemies very soon. With Babylon on the ropes, our Russian war may save them. As soon as we declare, that alliance is gone and we can make peace. Then they can be sent to the tundra. Since we have trades with Russia, won't that kill our trade rep too? I guess we better get as many gpt trades done before declaring. We probably won't have a problem now that we can begin serious wars with our Cavalry.
Northern Pike
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If we go to war with the Russians now it won't end any payments from us to them, only from them to us, so it won't affect our reputation in that regard.
ThERat
Deity
I think we better get a proper fleet going soon.
Another issue, do we continue research until astronomy? Or do we stop here alltogether to cashrsuh whatever is needed?
Another issue, do we continue research until astronomy? Or do we stop here alltogether to cashrsuh whatever is needed?
TheOverseer714
Overseer
Better boats is nice.
greatbeyond
King
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I've read through the last comments and will take a day or 2 to build a plan. Let me hear your suggestions.
Northern Pike
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Normally this would be a very difficult call. But as the Portuguese we need Astronomy for Carracks and our GA.
Well, we could wait, if somebody gets theology. But that can be pretty long. So I would rather steam to astronomy now and quit research then for good.
For diplomacy:
I would renegotiate with Russia, as we are not quite ready. But I would also add every alliance possible in the peace-alliance (for gpt).
I would also make now every alliance possible with other people for gpt. Then sell techs like crazy for gpt. If we give up our reputation in the next few turns (that's the idea, if Russia remains stubborn), we can do select peace treaties also to reap in large amounts of gpt. That should then carry us to astronomy where we can go then 100% gold (in golden age
).
Exception on alliances is Zulu, which is an alternate target until Russia. If we can do w/o reputation hit we will still do and Zulu is available for DoW in 3 turns.
Gift the retiremnet homes away already (Russia-Zulu). No use to defend them against Arabia (which we would have to do otherwise).
I will look a bit more in the evening and post a bit more about diplomacy and the mess (MM).
For diplomacy:
I would renegotiate with Russia, as we are not quite ready. But I would also add every alliance possible in the peace-alliance (for gpt).
I would also make now every alliance possible with other people for gpt. Then sell techs like crazy for gpt. If we give up our reputation in the next few turns (that's the idea, if Russia remains stubborn), we can do select peace treaties also to reap in large amounts of gpt. That should then carry us to astronomy where we can go then 100% gold (in golden age
). Exception on alliances is Zulu, which is an alternate target until Russia. If we can do w/o reputation hit we will still do and Zulu is available for DoW in 3 turns.
Gift the retiremnet homes away already (Russia-Zulu). No use to defend them against Arabia (which we would have to do otherwise).
I will look a bit more in the evening and post a bit more about diplomacy and the mess (MM
).Let's talk a bit about MM 
.
First a definition:
Short-rushing is rushing a cheaper build than one wants to build then switch back to the originally intended build and let it complete.
As an example:
Lisbon at 25sh. Cannot go to 27sh currently so no natural 3-turn cavs.
Build cavs in 3 turns by:
Lagos is at 16sh currently, in principle perfect for cav in 5. But it has surplus food and can soon work other tiles (and the mountain should also be mined at some time).
At 17sh (which means additional sh can be given to other cities) decent sequence is:
Guimares is too small. Merge in the 3 workers building a mine SE as soon as they have finished. Configure for 18sh then to complete the cav. Further cavs can be built a 17sh as noted for Lagos.
Leiria should grow to 6. Don't work the hill until then, but stay at +2 food. When it's 6 work 2 hills at +0 food.
Coimbra:
Short-rush via cav to build aqueduct in 3 with +2 food.
Faro:
Stay away from the steenkin' iron. We will now pay for an aqueduct long before we need it.
Oporto:
I don't try anymore to communicate the theory of settler factories. Grow it to 7 in 6 turns (and I mean 6) building galleys from now on. One could share already one wheat with Faro every 2 turns (not working any 1 food tiles), but that maybe asking too much. Once it's 7 give the one wheat permanently to Faro.
All the small cities: GROW. Max food tiles.
No cannon builds, please. You can upgrade the stuff we have and future captured slave cats/trebs. If you don't know what to build in coastal city make it a galley.
Diplomacy (how I would do it, other team members can have other opinions):
First set research to 0 for now so we have enough play material.
Russia:
Renegotiate peace alliance deal. Remove her gpt. Keep Babs and RoP. Add allinces against Ottomans, Arabs, Celts and maybe somebody else (a few gpt can be given also). Idea is to give her another ~5 turns to break. If she doesn't we shoot our reputation then and RoP rape her.
Shaka: No action currently. Let the current teraty run out.
The following is thought w/o peace reneg.
Get as much as you can back means you have to change their offer by hand. They will give around 20% more than their initial offer.
And I mean to sell only the techs I mention at first. After the whole round one can look if one can get additional money, but don't sell cheap (<~35gpt).
Sumeria:
Greeks, Aztecs, Chinese for 29gpt.
Get as much gold and gpt as you can back. Should be well over 60gpt and all cash.
Egypt:
Celts, France, Chinese, Greece for 138 gpt.
Get as much gold as you can back for invention and guns.
Persia:
Romans and Aztecs for 89 gpt (not Arabs or Babs).
Gold back for guns and chivalry.
Germany:
Arabs, French, Chinese, Indians, Greeks for 146gpt.
Gold bakc for chemistry.
Mongols:
Arabs, French for 118 gpt.
Money back for invention chivalry.
Korea:
India, France, China, Japan for 84 gpt.
Back for chemistry.
Hittites:
Rome for 51gpt.
Engineering, chivalry.
Now a round of looking if anybody has still a major amount of gold to give.
Science back to 100%.
Military:
Finish the Arabian campaign. Prepare attack on Russia (Moscow to fall on the first turn). If Russia doesn't declare within 3 turns, one could think of doing a little Zulu before. But latest in 5-7 turns I would attack Russia anyway, killing our reputation.
Gift tundra cities already to Russia and Zulu. It's too late once at war. Also with the very tight build up there, it's necessary to give them some time to build some spears.
Retreat from Uskudar. No need to further accumulate WW.
Another small note: There are some French sneaking up on Damaskus - kill
.First a definition:
Short-rushing is rushing a cheaper build than one wants to build then switch back to the originally intended build and let it complete.
As an example:
Lisbon at 25sh. Cannot go to 27sh currently so no natural 3-turn cavs.
Build cavs in 3 turns by:
- Build for 1 turn
- Change to settler and rush the missing 5sh for 20g
- Change back to cav
- Complete the cav in 2 turns
Lagos is at 16sh currently, in principle perfect for cav in 5. But it has surplus food and can soon work other tiles (and the mountain should also be mined at some time).
At 17sh (which means additional sh can be given to other cities) decent sequence is:
- short rush via settler after first turn
- complete cav in 3 more turns
Guimares is too small. Merge in the 3 workers building a mine SE as soon as they have finished. Configure for 18sh then to complete the cav. Further cavs can be built a 17sh as noted for Lagos.
Leiria should grow to 6. Don't work the hill until then, but stay at +2 food. When it's 6 work 2 hills at +0 food.
Coimbra:
Short-rush via cav to build aqueduct in 3 with +2 food.
Faro:
Stay away from the steenkin' iron. We will now pay for an aqueduct long before we need it.
Oporto:
I don't try anymore to communicate the theory of settler factories. Grow it to 7 in 6 turns (and I mean 6) building galleys from now on. One could share already one wheat with Faro every 2 turns (not working any 1 food tiles), but that maybe asking too much. Once it's 7 give the one wheat permanently to Faro.
All the small cities: GROW. Max food tiles.
No cannon builds, please. You can upgrade the stuff we have and future captured slave cats/trebs. If you don't know what to build in coastal city make it a galley.
Diplomacy (how I would do it
, other team members can have other opinions):First set research to 0 for now so we have enough play material.
Russia:
Renegotiate peace alliance deal. Remove her gpt. Keep Babs and RoP. Add allinces against Ottomans, Arabs, Celts and maybe somebody else (a few gpt can be given also). Idea is to give her another ~5 turns to break. If she doesn't we shoot our reputation then and RoP rape her.
Shaka: No action currently. Let the current teraty run out.
The following is thought w/o peace reneg.
Get as much as you can back means you have to change their offer by hand. They will give around 20% more than their initial offer.
And I mean to sell only the techs I mention at first. After the whole round one can look if one can get additional money, but don't sell cheap (<~35gpt).
Sumeria:
Greeks, Aztecs, Chinese for 29gpt.
Get as much gold and gpt as you can back. Should be well over 60gpt and all cash.
Egypt:
Celts, France, Chinese, Greece for 138 gpt.
Get as much gold as you can back for invention and guns.
Persia:
Romans and Aztecs for 89 gpt (not Arabs or Babs).
Gold back for guns and chivalry.
Germany:
Arabs, French, Chinese, Indians, Greeks for 146gpt.
Gold bakc for chemistry.
Mongols:
Arabs, French for 118 gpt.
Money back for invention chivalry.
Korea:
India, France, China, Japan for 84 gpt.
Back for chemistry.
Hittites:
Rome for 51gpt.
Engineering, chivalry.
Now a round of looking if anybody has still a major amount of gold to give.
Science back to 100%.
Military:
Finish the Arabian campaign. Prepare attack on Russia (Moscow to fall on the first turn). If Russia doesn't declare within 3 turns, one could think of doing a little Zulu before. But latest in 5-7 turns I would attack Russia anyway, killing our reputation.
Gift tundra cities already to Russia and Zulu. It's too late once at war. Also with the very tight build up there, it's necessary to give them some time to build some spears.
Retreat from Uskudar. No need to further accumulate WW.
Another small note: There are some French sneaking up on Damaskus - kill
greatbeyond
King
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- Jan 7, 2002
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- 989
Some good ideas. I'll pull them together tomorrow.
I'm itching to give it ago, probably will play monday or tuesday, pending out of the turnset and ensuing discussion.greatbeyond
King
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I'll be playing tonight (Saturday). I'll be taking it slow to make sure I get everything right. The path seems clear. Finish the Arabs to one isolated city, same with Zulus, set Russia up.
That is a nice detailed analysis Klarius.
Units - more Cavalry, some Galleys
Any plans for a Great Leader? I prefer an Army of Cavalry at this point, as it is unstoppable by anything but Riflemen, who are a long ways away.
That is a nice detailed analysis Klarius.
Units - more Cavalry, some Galleys
Any plans for a Great Leader? I prefer an Army of Cavalry at this point, as it is unstoppable by anything but Riflemen, who are a long ways away.
ThERat
Deity
The problem with armies is that we can't bring them to other Island as we have no transport capacity. Even carracks will be limited to 3 units, meaning an army filled with 2 units.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
But are there any Islands big enough to justify leaving an Army on? I'd say if we build an army, it can be about 25% of our home defense force. If we are invading with Galleys, just send individual Cavalries.
Northern Pike
Deity
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- 6,673
I'd say form an army, put only two cav units in it, and use it very carefully.
greatbeyond
King
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- 989
Well I wasn't lucky enough to get a MGL, so the Army will wait.
Everything pretty much went according to plan, except two bonehead moves. The first was gifting the Russians a city with an Arabian Archer standing next to it. I didn't even think to check if they were at war. As expected, the next turn the Archer razed it. If only I had reversed the cities I gave Russia and Zulu. The second was near the end of a turn I accidently hit the space bar before I was done MM. As it turns out it wasn't critical, but it was still stupid.
The Russians, Ottomans, and Arabs are all confined to one city. The Russians eliminated the Babylonian's before we could declare war. We may have to do something about the Ottomans as their culture may crowd out the others. We are sitting on a lot of cash and gpt, I did cash rush a little bit, but the next player will have a lot of decisions to make.
Here is a log I kept:
The Save:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm14/Klarius_SG014_AD0090_01.SAV
Everything pretty much went according to plan, except two bonehead moves. The first was gifting the Russians a city with an Arabian Archer standing next to it. I didn't even think to check if they were at war. As expected, the next turn the Archer razed it. If only I had reversed the cities I gave Russia and Zulu. The second was near the end of a turn I accidently hit the space bar before I was done MM. As it turns out it wasn't critical, but it was still stupid.
The Russians, Ottomans, and Arabs are all confined to one city. The Russians eliminated the Babylonian's before we could declare war. We may have to do something about the Ottomans as their culture may crowd out the others. We are sitting on a lot of cash and gpt, I did cash rush a little bit, but the next player will have a lot of decisions to make.
Here is a log I kept:
Spoiler :
The Save:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm14/Klarius_SG014_AD0090_01.SAV
