LowtherCastle
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Frankly, this is really hard. I'd like to see someone else test something out, under the new circumstances, because I haven't seen anyone demanding explorers come up with any realistic tests.
SGOTM 14 - One Short Straw
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Mitchum
Deity
It's easier to focus on one thing, but to strive for an early GLH/'MIds, fast research to Math, REX, developed cities, spawn busting and exploring units is a challenge. Something has to be sacrificed at the expense of the others. Do we need to prioritize what we want from the list above and focus our testing to achieve those items in that priority order?EDIT: Dhoom gave his order. Does it look right:
1. If it is possible, ensure that our area gets fully-spawn busted
2. Complete The Great Lighthouse
3. Get an exploring Work Boat out
4. Complete The Pyramids
5. Get a second exploring Work Boat out
As a general principle, what sort of tile improvements will we be building, across our empire?:
Improve resources (obviously)
Mines?
Farms?
Cottage the capital?
Roads?
What order of priority do we give to the last four?
The easiest way to get an extra explorer is to grow Gems to size 4, whip a worker, and put the 18 hammers of overflow into an archer.
Improve resources (obviously)
Mines?
Farms?
Cottage the capital?
Roads?
What order of priority do we give to the last four?
The easiest way to get an extra explorer is to grow Gems to size 4, whip a worker, and put the 18 hammers of overflow into an archer.
Mitchum
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Dhoomstriker
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Pig City as City #3?
Okay, here are two thoughts that I have...
1. Settle Pig City on the southern GFor Silk, 1N of the GPig, and aim to build The Great Lighthouse in one of Gem City or Pig City. I'm trying something along these lines now.
2. Settle Pig City on the GFor 1S of the GPig. This City will have no chance of building The Great Lighthouse but will allow us to be able to eventually work the 2 western Grassland Hills squares. A later City can settle to use the Fish, Flood Plain, Oasis, and the Hills squares to the north of there... if the Fish gets used in another City, then said City can still be a decent filler City, due to all of the Rivers. In this scenario Pig City takes over the duty of working the GGem Mine. That way, Gem City can focus on building The Great Lighthouse.
In either scenario, Gem City's Work Boat gets used to either:
a) help in spawn-busting
OR
b) exploring
I know that we'd be tempted to go exploring, but I think that I'd rather let it wrap around our area to the north-east, for the purposes of:
i. seeing if we can sail around our continent or not
ii. spawn-bust for land Barbs in that area
iii. connect-up our missing Trade Routes that we probably won't get for a while by settling Pig City as our 3rd city
After that, the Work Boat could get used for Stone City or else exploring, but probably Stone City.
In either of these scenarios:
i. We do not need to settle Marble City and as of Turn 50, our Warrior down there can move to the north to spawn-bust, since Washington's Cultural Borders will fully spawn-bust the SE for us, even without a settled Marble City
ii. We don't really need to build a PHRiv Mine for Washington and could beeline to the GPig square, since there will be no Marble City stealing our GCorn Farm. Dude, we can't rely on the hope of popping a Resource by Mining one Hills square--you need roughly 90% of the Hills within your Cultural Borders to have Mines on them to actually have a reasonable chance of popping a Resource. That Mine might be useful for building a Library, so we could Mine it anyway... but... I'd rather Mine it a bit later and use the Worker that is about to be built in Washington to Mine it if we really think that we'll want to work it.
I don't know how feasible it will be to build The Great Lighthouse in Pig City settled on the Silk, but here are a couple of points:
-> GPig = 6 Food, while Marble City's GCorn = 5 Food
-> We have 1 PHills square and 2 GHills For squares, while Marble City has the Desert Marble River square (PHills + 1 Commerce) and 1 GHills For River square (GHills + 1 Commerce).
-> Unlike settling Marble City, we aren't going to get +2 Commerce upon learning Sailing, due to no Trade Route connection without Roads, which does suck a bit
-> The two Grassland Hills squares have Forests on them. This point is bad because we'd have to Chop them pre-Math and it would take longer to Chop and Mine them than to Mine Hills in Marble City. This point is good because we essentially get two pre-Math Forest Chops for free, so the extra Worker turns actually give us something. Plus, it take 1 more turn to build a Mine on a Desert Hills square compared to a Grassland Hills square, although this point is very minor.
-> We'd only have 1 post-Math Forest to Chop (unless we didn't Chop both GHills For squares) within our Cultural Borders but would have two Forests to Chop within our fat cross--darned if you do, darned if you don't, but perhaps the extra Food can justify us whipping a Monument?
Anyway, out of those two options, I'm trying the one that I like a tiny bit less (the settling on the Silk option). I am intrigued by the idea of building The Great Lighthouse in Gem City and using Pig City to work the Gem in its place, so that Gem City can focus on the PWheat, GFor Deer, and Mines squares.
Okay, here are two thoughts that I have...
1. Settle Pig City on the southern GFor Silk, 1N of the GPig, and aim to build The Great Lighthouse in one of Gem City or Pig City. I'm trying something along these lines now.
2. Settle Pig City on the GFor 1S of the GPig. This City will have no chance of building The Great Lighthouse but will allow us to be able to eventually work the 2 western Grassland Hills squares. A later City can settle to use the Fish, Flood Plain, Oasis, and the Hills squares to the north of there... if the Fish gets used in another City, then said City can still be a decent filler City, due to all of the Rivers. In this scenario Pig City takes over the duty of working the GGem Mine. That way, Gem City can focus on building The Great Lighthouse.
In either scenario, Gem City's Work Boat gets used to either:
a) help in spawn-busting
OR
b) exploring
I know that we'd be tempted to go exploring, but I think that I'd rather let it wrap around our area to the north-east, for the purposes of:
i. seeing if we can sail around our continent or not
ii. spawn-bust for land Barbs in that area
iii. connect-up our missing Trade Routes that we probably won't get for a while by settling Pig City as our 3rd city
After that, the Work Boat could get used for Stone City or else exploring, but probably Stone City.
In either of these scenarios:
i. We do not need to settle Marble City and as of Turn 50, our Warrior down there can move to the north to spawn-bust, since Washington's Cultural Borders will fully spawn-bust the SE for us, even without a settled Marble City
ii. We don't really need to build a PHRiv Mine for Washington and could beeline to the GPig square, since there will be no Marble City stealing our GCorn Farm. Dude, we can't rely on the hope of popping a Resource by Mining one Hills square--you need roughly 90% of the Hills within your Cultural Borders to have Mines on them to actually have a reasonable chance of popping a Resource. That Mine might be useful for building a Library, so we could Mine it anyway... but... I'd rather Mine it a bit later and use the Worker that is about to be built in Washington to Mine it if we really think that we'll want to work it.
I don't know how feasible it will be to build The Great Lighthouse in Pig City settled on the Silk, but here are a couple of points:
-> GPig = 6 Food, while Marble City's GCorn = 5 Food
-> We have 1 PHills square and 2 GHills For squares, while Marble City has the Desert Marble River square (PHills + 1 Commerce) and 1 GHills For River square (GHills + 1 Commerce).
-> Unlike settling Marble City, we aren't going to get +2 Commerce upon learning Sailing, due to no Trade Route connection without Roads, which does suck a bit
-> The two Grassland Hills squares have Forests on them. This point is bad because we'd have to Chop them pre-Math and it would take longer to Chop and Mine them than to Mine Hills in Marble City. This point is good because we essentially get two pre-Math Forest Chops for free, so the extra Worker turns actually give us something. Plus, it take 1 more turn to build a Mine on a Desert Hills square compared to a Grassland Hills square, although this point is very minor.
-> We'd only have 1 post-Math Forest to Chop (unless we didn't Chop both GHills For squares) within our Cultural Borders but would have two Forests to Chop within our fat cross--darned if you do, darned if you don't, but perhaps the extra Food can justify us whipping a Monument?
Anyway, out of those two options, I'm trying the one that I like a tiny bit less (the settling on the Silk option). I am intrigued by the idea of building The Great Lighthouse in Gem City and using Pig City to work the Gem in its place, so that Gem City can focus on the PWheat, GFor Deer, and Mines squares.
LowtherCastle
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This is a clever idea.
That gems tile is truly a PITA for building the GLH there.
Dhoomstriker
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Oooooohhhh, well this info is neat: Sailing connects up Washington to Pig City with the advent of Sailing, due to that already-revealed River that our Sheep is on.
So, we still get two Cities with Trade Routes to each other like we would by settling Marble City. Maybe Pig City as #3 isn't going to be as Commerce-poor as I thought that it might be.
EDIT: Just to clarify, this Trade Route connection to Washington applies to either Pig City location.
So, we still get two Cities with Trade Routes to each other like we would by settling Marble City. Maybe Pig City as #3 isn't going to be as Commerce-poor as I thought that it might be.
EDIT: Just to clarify, this Trade Route connection to Washington applies to either Pig City location.
Mitchum
Deity
I think with settling Pigs as our next city, the WB currently being built in Gems City should go exploring. Once we settle Pigs, we'll be able to scout / spawn bust the north with our warrior that is currently spawn busting the pigs area.
Wouldn't it be great to have 3 +2
trade routes in all of our coastal cities? We should have ~4 when we complete the GLH, which would make our coastal TR income go from 4*3*1 = 12 to 4*3*2 = 24. In addition, the TR income would go up in the capital as well.
Add to that the fact that we'd be able to meet new AI for trading options, confirm the map type and scout part of the spoke for resources earlier and early scouting seems to be a no-brainer. But, I could be brainless just like Scarecrow...
"If I only had a brain..."
Wouldn't it be great to have 3 +2
trade routes in all of our coastal cities? We should have ~4 when we complete the GLH, which would make our coastal TR income go from 4*3*1 = 12 to 4*3*2 = 24. In addition, the TR income would go up in the capital as well.Add to that the fact that we'd be able to meet new AI for trading options, confirm the map type and scout part of the spoke for resources earlier and early scouting seems to be a no-brainer. But, I could be brainless just like Scarecrow...
"If I only had a brain..."
I already gave you a summary of what I had tested prior to Mitchum's set. There was a bit of a sacrifice to Pig city settling and development, as I had to reduce maintenance to get Math on the 1040 BC schedule. Your last save is better in overall development for this reason, though you're behind on the fifth settler. Mitchum's TS so far is too much of a deviation from my previous testing, and I simply don't have any more time to test this week.
My main problem with ZPV's tests all along has been the same - it looks like a wasteland. I'm ok with that if it gives a significantly faster wonder, but it didn't (your Stone test was the fastest before this TS). Otherwise, I believe in mining a river hill before I chop. If we are in a position now where no alternative could compete on GLH date, however, I'm happy to just follow the Marble plan, since GLH is priority #1 for me by a mile and it would be good for our sanity to just finish this stage of the game.
Edit: xpost
Mitchum
Deity
Securing the GLH is my top priority as well. There seems to be some renewed energy around testing the settling of Pigs next. We haven't tested this variant yet as most of our early testing didn't know about this city location. I would prefer a day or two to test this option out before continuing down our current path of GLH in Marble.
Dhoomstriker
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Okay, look:
So, we seem to feel that we can't perform exploration, right?
Well, let's just finish the Work Boat in Gem City and have it explore to the south.
Pig City can get a GPig up soon enough and it can either take over the duty or working the Gem or it can try to build The Great Lighthouse itself (I am slowly working on the second possibility now, but I work slowly--I prefer to "win small steps" at a time rather than playing through over and over the whole thing all at once).
If we go with the Pig City on Silk and tries to build The Great Lighthouse approach, then we can build a Work Boat right away, instead of a partial Library. That Work Boat can either be Chopped from one of the GHFors or can be whipped when we are at Size 2 but are about to grow to Size 3. Either way, the overflow Hammers would get captured in a Lighthouse.
By exploring with our Work Boat instead of netting it at a non-existent Marble City, we can leverage the fact that we beelined Writing + Sailing. Well, we can if we find a neighbour that is willing to Open Borders with us. If not, then we can at least work on mapping out their lands until we reach a Coastal Cultural Border block.
Given that the AIs that we have met will Open Borders with us, we can either head to the south and hope that we find AIs down there that are willing to Open Borders or we can head around to the NE and hope that the Coastal path around our land area that exists in our test map also exists in the real game. Or we could do both... head south but then double-back if an AI in the south won't Open Borders with us.
Given that we won't be settling Marble City, we can pillage all of the Forests down there and start Chopping them immediately for Washington; non-existent Marble City can go Forestless, hahaha. Actually, that's one point that I'm not clear on... roughly how many Forests do we feel comfortable Chopping pre-Math? A bunch of them? All of them that aren't being used for a Wonder?
EDIT: I cross-posted but it sounds like I'm saying the same thing as Mitchum.
So, we seem to feel that we can't perform exploration, right?
Well, let's just finish the Work Boat in Gem City and have it explore to the south.
Pig City can get a GPig up soon enough and it can either take over the duty or working the Gem or it can try to build The Great Lighthouse itself (I am slowly working on the second possibility now, but I work slowly--I prefer to "win small steps" at a time rather than playing through over and over the whole thing all at once).
If we go with the Pig City on Silk and tries to build The Great Lighthouse approach, then we can build a Work Boat right away, instead of a partial Library. That Work Boat can either be Chopped from one of the GHFors or can be whipped when we are at Size 2 but are about to grow to Size 3. Either way, the overflow Hammers would get captured in a Lighthouse.
By exploring with our Work Boat instead of netting it at a non-existent Marble City, we can leverage the fact that we beelined Writing + Sailing. Well, we can if we find a neighbour that is willing to Open Borders with us. If not, then we can at least work on mapping out their lands until we reach a Coastal Cultural Border block.
Given that the AIs that we have met will Open Borders with us, we can either head to the south and hope that we find AIs down there that are willing to Open Borders or we can head around to the NE and hope that the Coastal path around our land area that exists in our test map also exists in the real game. Or we could do both... head south but then double-back if an AI in the south won't Open Borders with us.
Given that we won't be settling Marble City, we can pillage all of the Forests down there and start Chopping them immediately for Washington; non-existent Marble City can go Forestless, hahaha. Actually, that's one point that I'm not clear on... roughly how many Forests do we feel comfortable Chopping pre-Math? A bunch of them? All of them that aren't being used for a Wonder?
EDIT: I cross-posted but it sounds like I'm saying the same thing as Mitchum.
We'd still need a Road, though, or an explored and actually-existing coastal route around the north-east part of our land area, before we could get multiple Foreign Trade Routes, otherwise we'd just get 1 Foreign Trade Route (Gem City) initially... that is, if we can get Open Borders.Wouldn't it be great to have 3 +2
shyuhe
Deity
I (finally) have some time to test so I will try some pigs runs tonight. I think we should try to have round up the testing by late tomorrow though so that Mitchum can continue play this weekend.
This is an example of where we fundamentally disagree.
I believe in liquidating our forests and getting those hammers working for us quickly, ahead of mining a hill we're going to work for 10 of the next 30 turns.
We'll live either way :/
LowtherCastle
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1. I think we should strongly consider saving the Pigs-North site (where our warrior is fortified) for our fifth city, if we settle Pigs 3rd and stone 4th. This northern site will access the ivory, but more important it can produce 21 raw-h per turn. It can be our Heroic Epic city. It can also produce sea vessels, being coastal. It's also on the correct side of our landmass. It's our best production city and we should develop it asap for our future campaigns.
2. I agree with both bbp and ZPV: we should take advantage of our chops, but we should also improve our tiles, especially resource and hills. Compare my save with ZPV's, for example. My Gems has 2 4h mines at 1000BC. So without any worker attention it produces 12hpt at pop5, easily cranking out exploring wbs or archers. Washington also has a couple mines ready for exploitation.
It's one thing to have 6 wkrs, it's another thing to work unimproved tiles while waiting for them to improve your hills.
2. I agree with both bbp and ZPV: we should take advantage of our chops, but we should also improve our tiles, especially resource and hills. Compare my save with ZPV's, for example. My Gems has 2 4h mines at 1000BC. So without any worker attention it produces 12hpt at pop5, easily cranking out exploring wbs or archers. Washington also has a couple mines ready for exploitation.
It's one thing to have 6 wkrs, it's another thing to work unimproved tiles while waiting for them to improve your hills.
Mitchum
Deity
I did a quick test with Pigs City going one south of the pig tile and "stealing" the gems from Gems City, which is no longer appropriately named... 
I built the GLH in Gems in 1000 BC per the game log. A bit late, but I'm sure I could have done better with proper worker management. Pigs already has a library, I've explored south almost around the entire landmass of the AI there and the WB built in Pigs explored around the north of our continent (if feasible in our game). It could net the seafood in Stone or continue exploring.
BTW, I did open borders with one AI, giving me three +2 trade routes...
EDIT: This time with attachment.
I built the GLH in Gems in 1000 BC per the game log. A bit late, but I'm sure I could have done better with proper worker management. Pigs already has a library, I've explored south almost around the entire landmass of the AI there and the WB built in Pigs explored around the north of our continent (if feasible in our game). It could net the seafood in Stone or continue exploring.BTW, I did open borders with one AI, giving me three +2
trade routes...EDIT: This time with attachment.
Dhoomstriker
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1N of GPig
Okay, I clearly need to work on a good balance between production and Science.
By 1000 BC, I was able to get 9 Workers but not Math and therefore The Great Lighthouse was far from being completed in Pig City that did not get the Gem in its fat cross.
Actually, seeing as how I was building: a Work Boat, a Monument, a Lighthouse, and The Great Lighthouse there, plus starting the City from Size 1, it's probably not (at least according to the way that I was playing it) as feasible as I had hoped. If we want to make that location work, it might be better to just skip the Work Boat and possibly use a Work Boat built in far-away Gem City to net the Clam? I.e. Focus more of the City's Hammers on a Lighthouse ASAP.
Hunting comes at a nice time if you research it just after Sailing but all that it really does is focus more on production in favour of Science (9 Workers and no Math), while Mysticism (which I was also teching) won't be needed if we build The Great Lighthouse elsewhere and probably won't even be needed regardless, although it's possible that it might be a worthwhile investment.
So, okay, yup, I admit that I blew it, but I think that I'll try with the GPig City stealing the Gem instead. That way, there isn't a rush to get Worker 2 over to the GPig square itself, as the City can begin by working the Gem and will only need to work the GPig once it is Pastured, so we can probably finish the PHRiv Mine first in the capital.
Also, I'm staying away from grabbing Foreign Trade Routes, in case we can't get them easily in the real game.
Anyway, those are just my random ramblings.
1S of GPig
If we set the Science Slider to 50% for one turn before settling the City 1S of GPig, we'll avoid a Flask to rounding errors and will get Sailing 1 turn after the Work Boat in Gem City is completed. I haven't looked into bonus Flasks, but it is feasible that if we play around for the couple of turns with the Science Slider, since our fractional Flasks and Gold across our first 2 Cities adds up to whole numbers, we might even be able to do slightly better.
Also, on the turn that we settle this 1S of GPig City, we can steal the GGem, since the PWheat just gets improved for "Gem" City. In so doing, I'm thinking that the Worker by our capital will just finish off the PHRiv Mine and then will Chop a Forest, while the newly-built Worker can probably move 1NW onto the PHFor, Chop it, then head to Pasture the GPig. Since we'll want to work minimally the GGem and GPig in Pig City, we might as well start on a Warrior in Pig City.
Okay, so what I'm doing is going: Sailing at 50% for one turn then 100% until we complete it -> 0% Science on MASONRY -> once the Library is built, 100% Science on Masonry -> The Wheel
1S Pig City has stolen the GGem ever since it was founded.
Worker 1: Farm the PWheat, Mine the PH SW of Gem City, Mine the PH W of Gem City (maybe it's better to do something else because then I'm stuck what to do next while I wait for The Wheel)
Worker 2: Mines the PHRiv -> NE of Washington Chop -> E of Washington Chop -> 3E of Washington Chop (the order of Chops could be different, though)
Worker 3: NW PHFor -> Chops that PHFor -> Moves to the GPig -> Pastures the GPig
I'm not sure what to do when the GPig gets pastured... we're at a weird spot... 1S Pig City could grow in 1 turn by working the GPig if we don't work the GGem. However, Gem City, which just 2-pop whipped, can grow in exactly 4 turns by working the PWheat and GFor Deer, but would take 5 turns to grow if we were to work the GGem isntead of the GFor Deer for 1 turn... so... grow faster and less Science or more Science and have one of the Cities grow slower... I'm not sure, but I think that we want to work the GGem.
Also, what's really nice is that with this Chopping pattern, we can complete a Warrior and a Library in the capital after the current Worker build, thanks to the Chops and thanks to switching into Slavery for a turn, meaning that we can be at Size 6 with an empty Foodbox and can hire 2 Scientists and start building Workers without having collected excess Food that will just go to waste and while also having a City defender in time.
If we build Library -> Warrior, then the Warrior completes too late, because we have enough Hammers but not enough to complete both build items, thanks to one 20-Hammer Chop coming on the last turn of building the Library, if you get what I mean, since a Warrior costs 15 Hammers... the total number of Hammers is right, but unless you build that Warrior first, then it takes 2 turns to complete Library -> Warrior, which is messy cuz you get 1 turn of Unhappiness at Size 6 for no reason and also collect some Food in our Foodbox at Size 6 for no reason.
ANYWAY... I suggest that you take a look at the saved game. I haven't played it out (I prefer taking small steps and improving as I go rather than playing things out quickly) so if someone who is good at playing it out quickly can pick it up from here, we'll see if we can speed up The Great Lighthouse thanks to Pig City stealing the GGem. I'm thinking at least one more Warrior in Pig City, if not a few more and possibly a Work Boat, while the capital focuses on Workers that Chop out more Workers that Chop out more Workers just in time to Chop out the Stone City Settler, while Gem City focuses on The Great Lighthouse after immediately whipping a Lighthouse there.
Probably work the GGem for 3 more turns in Pig City, but it's hard to say, because while we get more Commerce, we could just grow in 1 turn by working the just-now-improved GPig and then could work both squares for 2 turns... ahhh, see, I get stuck on these dumb little decisions, which is why it takes me so long to play out a long game.
Okay, I clearly need to work on a good balance between production and Science.
By 1000 BC, I was able to get 9 Workers but not Math and therefore The Great Lighthouse was far from being completed in Pig City that did not get the Gem in its fat cross.
Actually, seeing as how I was building: a Work Boat, a Monument, a Lighthouse, and The Great Lighthouse there, plus starting the City from Size 1, it's probably not (at least according to the way that I was playing it) as feasible as I had hoped. If we want to make that location work, it might be better to just skip the Work Boat and possibly use a Work Boat built in far-away Gem City to net the Clam? I.e. Focus more of the City's Hammers on a Lighthouse ASAP.
Hunting comes at a nice time if you research it just after Sailing but all that it really does is focus more on production in favour of Science (9 Workers and no Math), while Mysticism (which I was also teching) won't be needed if we build The Great Lighthouse elsewhere and probably won't even be needed regardless, although it's possible that it might be a worthwhile investment.
So, okay, yup, I admit that I blew it, but I think that I'll try with the GPig City stealing the Gem instead. That way, there isn't a rush to get Worker 2 over to the GPig square itself, as the City can begin by working the Gem and will only need to work the GPig once it is Pastured, so we can probably finish the PHRiv Mine first in the capital.
Also, I'm staying away from grabbing Foreign Trade Routes, in case we can't get them easily in the real game.
Anyway, those are just my random ramblings.
1S of GPig
If we set the Science Slider to 50% for one turn before settling the City 1S of GPig, we'll avoid a Flask to rounding errors and will get Sailing 1 turn after the Work Boat in Gem City is completed. I haven't looked into bonus Flasks, but it is feasible that if we play around for the couple of turns with the Science Slider, since our fractional Flasks and Gold across our first 2 Cities adds up to whole numbers, we might even be able to do slightly better.
Also, on the turn that we settle this 1S of GPig City, we can steal the GGem, since the PWheat just gets improved for "Gem" City. In so doing, I'm thinking that the Worker by our capital will just finish off the PHRiv Mine and then will Chop a Forest, while the newly-built Worker can probably move 1NW onto the PHFor, Chop it, then head to Pasture the GPig. Since we'll want to work minimally the GGem and GPig in Pig City, we might as well start on a Warrior in Pig City.
Okay, so what I'm doing is going: Sailing at 50% for one turn then 100% until we complete it -> 0% Science on MASONRY -> once the Library is built, 100% Science on Masonry -> The Wheel
1S Pig City has stolen the GGem ever since it was founded.
Worker 1: Farm the PWheat, Mine the PH SW of Gem City, Mine the PH W of Gem City (maybe it's better to do something else because then I'm stuck what to do next while I wait for The Wheel)
Worker 2: Mines the PHRiv -> NE of Washington Chop -> E of Washington Chop -> 3E of Washington Chop (the order of Chops could be different, though)
Worker 3: NW PHFor -> Chops that PHFor -> Moves to the GPig -> Pastures the GPig
I'm not sure what to do when the GPig gets pastured... we're at a weird spot... 1S Pig City could grow in 1 turn by working the GPig if we don't work the GGem. However, Gem City, which just 2-pop whipped, can grow in exactly 4 turns by working the PWheat and GFor Deer, but would take 5 turns to grow if we were to work the GGem isntead of the GFor Deer for 1 turn... so... grow faster and less Science or more Science and have one of the Cities grow slower... I'm not sure, but I think that we want to work the GGem.
Also, what's really nice is that with this Chopping pattern, we can complete a Warrior and a Library in the capital after the current Worker build, thanks to the Chops and thanks to switching into Slavery for a turn, meaning that we can be at Size 6 with an empty Foodbox and can hire 2 Scientists and start building Workers without having collected excess Food that will just go to waste and while also having a City defender in time.
If we build Library -> Warrior, then the Warrior completes too late, because we have enough Hammers but not enough to complete both build items, thanks to one 20-Hammer Chop coming on the last turn of building the Library, if you get what I mean, since a Warrior costs 15 Hammers... the total number of Hammers is right, but unless you build that Warrior first, then it takes 2 turns to complete Library -> Warrior, which is messy cuz you get 1 turn of Unhappiness at Size 6 for no reason and also collect some Food in our Foodbox at Size 6 for no reason.
ANYWAY... I suggest that you take a look at the saved game. I haven't played it out (I prefer taking small steps and improving as I go rather than playing things out quickly) so if someone who is good at playing it out quickly can pick it up from here, we'll see if we can speed up The Great Lighthouse thanks to Pig City stealing the GGem. I'm thinking at least one more Warrior in Pig City, if not a few more and possibly a Work Boat, while the capital focuses on Workers that Chop out more Workers that Chop out more Workers just in time to Chop out the Stone City Settler, while Gem City focuses on The Great Lighthouse after immediately whipping a Lighthouse there.
Probably work the GGem for 3 more turns in Pig City, but it's hard to say, because while we get more Commerce, we could just grow in 1 turn by working the just-now-improved GPig and then could work both squares for 2 turns... ahhh, see, I get stuck on these dumb little decisions, which is why it takes me so long to play out a long game.
I've had a go at Pigs-1S. I'm not sure yet.
It's definitely a little slower in terms of tech - it works pigs, etc, instead of crabs and river tiles.
It probably also needs early Hunting.
I need to avoid the temptation to build the Gems mines right away so I can leave the city to rot. It slows down our expansion massively.
It's definitely a little slower in terms of tech - it works pigs, etc, instead of crabs and river tiles.
It probably also needs early Hunting.
I need to avoid the temptation to build the Gems mines right away so I can leave the city to rot. It slows down our expansion massively.
LowtherCastle
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- May 18, 2005
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Accidentally discovered something pretty cool. I was a beaker short of completing Sailing on 1880BC because I had gone 0% slider instead of Dhoom's 50%. Decided to switch to slavery anyway and go back later and try 50%. Hit <enter> and lo and behold, in the middle of my revolt, the first thing that happened was that I completed Sailing!
I can get Pigs-1S to work now.
After improving the wheat, the worker goes up to pasture the pigs, so two workers can stay at washington for a little longer.
Then the pig worker moves back, accompanied by a washington worker, to camp the deer and mine the hills. With a camp on that deer, we can juggle the wheat tile between the two cities, and pig city really becomes productive.
I would have gotten maths t72-73 and GLH t73-74, except for the first time I've seen it in testing, it was BIFAL 1240BC. I'll repost with a test where that doesn't happen
After improving the wheat, the worker goes up to pasture the pigs, so two workers can stay at washington for a little longer.
Then the pig worker moves back, accompanied by a washington worker, to camp the deer and mine the hills. With a camp on that deer, we can juggle the wheat tile between the two cities, and pig city really becomes productive.
I would have gotten maths t72-73 and GLH t73-74, except for the first time I've seen it in testing, it was BIFAL 1240BC. I'll repost with a test where that doesn't happen
LowtherCastle
Deity
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- May 18, 2005
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- 23,756
Pigs-1S
I pretty much follwed Dhoom's plan. GLH on 1080/1040BC. Pyramids will be done 925/900BC. I definitely like this strategy better than Marble.
6 workers.
Pigs-NE settler not close to done which should be improved upon.
Math was completed 1120BC iirc, so research isn't the hang-up.
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If we can include early hunting a la ZPV above, that's even better obviously.
I pretty much follwed Dhoom's plan. GLH on 1080/1040BC. Pyramids will be done 925/900BC. I definitely like this strategy better than Marble.
6 workers.
Pigs-NE settler not close to done which should be improved upon.
Math was completed 1120BC iirc, so research isn't the hang-up.
-------------------
If we can include early hunting a la ZPV above, that's even better obviously.
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