SGOTM 14 - Unusual Suspects

[Yamps]

Why not one to the left on the plains? Since we need a border pop, that would give us both the crab and the clam to whip. Of course, the tradeoff is that you can't share the cows with capitol and you can't use either seafood untuil the border pop. Hmm... maybe the hill is better since its more useful immediately, and this is about speed. I'll have a look at the save and see if I notice anything to comment on.

yeah, 1W is better. But I'm guessing we'll settle near marble first anyway.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

Mine the hill and settle on the flat?

 

[Yamps]

OK... yeah there is no doubt that the site 1S of marble will also work. Fog-gazing shows that it is diagonal to a mountain tile on Asokas border, and one border pop would do it. The advantage here is that you get the marble city up at the same time. Am I correct thinking it won't even need a road because of the river reaching capitols culture border?

The quarry won't need a road because it's adjacent to the river. The connection to the capital won't go using the river (corn needs road), but we'll have Sailing to reach NY.

One other thing... we should concentrate espionage now. Either we want to see what Asoka/Ragnar are teching, or we want to see demographics for the other team. Just make up our minds which is more useful.

Asoka/Ragnar imo, to see how far are they from Feudalism.

Mine the hill and settle on the flat?

We have to chose between marble and clam/crab spot what to settle first. Clam/crab actually looks better. Are we building any marble wonders soon? If we go with clam/crab, we'll probably chop the forest for a monument first.

Looking forward to your pre play plans!

 

[Xcalibrator]

What Yamps said.

Will the revelations of our exploring archers affect our decision on whether the Boston settler goes to the copper or clams/crab culture-bridge site? It's going to be quite awhile before we get Iron Working, and maybe we don't have any iron--I'd like to make sure we get the copper. Elephants are great, but spears are a good counter--we need axes. Copper also leaves open the (slim?) hope of the Colossus. Speaking of Wonders, does anyone have a feel for the ToA and Oracle dates? Do we have any hope for the Great Lighthouse?

General suggestion that Chris no doubt knows: chop out settlers so we minimize the number of turns spent building them (and stagnating in growth).

 

[ChrisShaffer]

Oracle has already been built.

 

[Deckhand]

Oracle has already been built.

What he said ^.

Here's when:

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1200 BC to 825 BC:

Turn 70, 1200 BC: The Oracle has been built in a far away land!

 

[ChrisShaffer]

A preliminary plan, needs work and testing.

Sign open borders with Witches of the North

Research: 0% until Washington library completed -> 100% -> binary. Sailing -> construction -> horseback riding

Representation + slavery when two settlers are moving

Washington: granary (chop) -> library (chop) -> aqueduct (evenually Hanging Gardens)

New York: finish settler -> library -> worker

Boston: finish settler (chop) -> worker (chop) -> settler (chop) -> library

Philadelphia finish archer -> worker -> library

Atlanta finish workboat -> library

New cities: 1S silver, 1S marble, 1SW copper

Worker 1: road incense -> road hill -> pasture pigs -> road pigs

Worker 2: chops for Boston

Worker 3: finish irrigating rice -> chops for Washington

Worker 4: chops for Washington -> quarry marble

We do not have enough workers!

 

[Xcalibrator]

Uh, yeah, I know the Oracle was built. As was the ToA (T76). I was wondering if those (and the Great Wall and Stonehenge) were earlier than usual for an Emperor game, so that it might guide us in deciding whether or not (and how hard) to try for various wonders, such as the Great Lighthouse, Colossus, and Hanging Gardens.

Speaking of Wonder timing, since the Oracle is gone, do we really need the marble site before the southern clams/crab (for cultural bridge)? Surely we can settle somewhere near the marble before we need it for any marble-Wonder attempts (Great Lib?). I hate to waste the grass hill S of the marble by settling on it just so we can get a cultural bridge. Settling there also means the city can't work Washington's corn or the crabs to get started.

The Hanging Gardens would be nice to have, but do we want it in Wash? Will we have enough forests left to chop it quickly? Can we get it faster in NY? And again (we need a broken record smilie), what about finishing off Sailing if it would give us trade routes with the AI?

 

[ChrisShaffer]

I don't see any AI that will give us trade routes yet. If we do see them, it's easy to get Sailing in two turns with 100% research.

Building Hanging Gardens in New York makes sense. I suppose it would be better to build the culture bridge in crab/clam and wait until later for marble.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

Revised plan with Neil's suggestions.

Sign open borders with Witches of the North

Research: 0% until Washington library completed -> 100% -> binary (get Sailing if trade routes available)

Research: Sailing -> construction -> horseback riding

Representation + slavery when two settlers are moving

All cities run scientists where possible/practical

Washington: granary (chop) -> library (chop) -> monument for happy

New York: finish settler -> library -> worker -> aqueduct for Hanging Gardens

Boston: finish settler (chop) -> worker (chop) -> settler (chop) -> library

Philadelphia finish archer -> worker -> library

Atlanta finish workboat -> library

New cities: 1S silver, clam/crab, 1SW copper

Silver: worker (chop) -> monument -> workboat

Clam/crab: monument (chop) -> workboat

Copper: founded after turnset

Worker 1: road incense -> road hill -> pasture pigs -> road pigs

Worker 2: chops for Boston

Worker 3: finish irrigating rice -> chop & pasture pigs for silver

Worker 4: chops for Washington -> chop for clam/crab

We do not have enough workers!

 

[Yamps]

No time for me to check anything in detail right now so just a few comments:

Are we sure that we don't want granaries before libraries? I also suggest using the whip to tackle the lack of workers. 2 pop whips for granaries would be useful, after that we'll gain about 2 hammers for 1 food. We could then whip libraries as well. General whipping method: wait till the last turn that enables a 2 pop whip, to reduce the growth back time. (Granaries are an exception from this, we'll want them immediately. Work boats as well most likely.)

@Xcal

Yes, wonders are going quickly, it feels more like an Immortal game.

 

[Deckhand]

I agree with amended CS plan as revised by yamps.
I usually 1 pop granaries in new cities. Our older cities can 2 pop whip them as suggested. The new ones should whip them as soon as possible (1 pop). i.e. I want the granary before the city reaches size 4. The smaller the city is when whipped, the more hammers per food.

It feels like immortal, because we are playing against Teams.
Maybe harder than immortal?
At Immortal, I usually run out of time or get discouraged and stop. We won't let that happen this time.

 

[neilmeister]

Revised plan with Neil's suggestions....

Am I a part of the team now, or is there another Neil hiding under a avatar.

Though, I can recommend myself, I have some excellent ideas about how to find and beat the wizard.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

Er, whoops, make that Xc's suggestions.

Are we suddenly going to be whip happy here? I didn't think that was our plan...

 

[Deckhand]

I don't know about libraries. You want to grow to have the population to use them.
But I think granaries are worth whipping. The faster growth will quickly pay back the whipped population.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

But I think granaries are worth whipping. The faster growth will quickly pay back the whipped population.

Really? I tend to think that's only true for expansionist leaders.

 

[kcd_swede]

There are no civics switches in the plan yet, so talk of whipping is premature, until you decide we want Repr/Slavery. That's probably when we'rre going to be hiring specialists... so the whip will only be advantageous in a few selected cities at a few selected times.
---

I have had one idea here... if we get the marble and do not need it before we build the GLib/HG, then we could gift it away to Asoka (or someone else). Can cancel and get it back any time after 10 turns. This would help us build +diplo to open borders (though it would take about 20 turns iirc, though 10 turns here and 10 turns there are cumulative). We could then scout the land before invasion, which would be very useful. In addition, it would likely divert the AI into building stuff like the ToA for us, instead of military units and settlers for crap cities to raze which slows us down. Just some food for thought. This assumes that we are on a conquest mission rather than a wonder-whoring rampage.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

What KCD said. Our civics switch will be to representation when Washington has built its library. Slavery will actually cost us 2gpt civic maintenance - and later perhaps more. Maybe we don't even want to include slavery in our revolution?

Is there any chance the AI will build the Great Library or the Mausoleum of Maussollos if we gift them marble?

 

[kcd_swede]

What KCD said. Our civics switch will be to representation when Washington has built its library. Slavery will actually cost us 2gpt civic maintenance - and later perhaps more. Maybe we don't even want to include slavery in our revolution?

Is there any chance the AI will build the Great Library or the Mausoleum of Maussollos if we gift them marble?

There's a chance the AI build those even if we don't gift the marble. But I believe the chance that the marble wonders get built by an AI who has marble is greater. Better if they go to a close neighbor than someone far away. But once we can and want to have a specific wonder (and GLib has great synergy with Pyramids) its time to cancel the gift and build it ourselves to be sure. Note, we could do the same with stone... two gifts accrues diplo points twice as fast as one. We only need those resources when we are building something, and we should be able to plan those builds more than 10t in advance.

 

[Deckhand]

Representation + slavery when two settlers are moving ...

Edit, does this mean we will never switch if we build them one at at time? Probably identify which 2 settlers since 3 are in the plan.

There are no civics switches in the plan yet, ...

Won't both settlers be built in Chris's turn set?

But will they both be moving at same time? And I agree, we don't need Rep until we have libraries. Yamps wants to whip those.

Nice idea about gifting the stone, marble.
Any downside to gifting stone now?