SGOTM 15 - Kakumeika

[Manco Capac]

Sounds like a plan. It's just we wouldn't have enough info on the deer site for testing after my turnset.

Good point about testing early. Until the settler comes, the need for testing may not be that useful. And the settler comes around the time the borders pop once more.

I look at the member order for play time and mabraham comes second. Perhaps he may swap with Wastin (if he agrees of course) for getting the third turnset, thus he may test under his own turnset when the first settler comes out the capital simultaneously to the second border pop.

 

[Manco Capac]

I look again the paths I proposed and if someone is really worry to know nothing about the deer location before T24-25, then the first path allows us via the hills to uncover some southern tiles to the deer.
Still, I have a penchant for the second path. But it will need some refinements because it consumes some extra turns...

 

[bcool]

Depending on hills either green path Tachy proposing could reveal about as much as the blue path could around the deer site in addition to a few more tiles to the east. Tachy makes a good point that because of the hills/peaks in the capitals 2nd border pop we will see the red x area with added vision thoses hills/peaks will provide. The border pop will happen T23 or T24. Which will be before the 1st settler is built. 10 turns for a worker then at least 8 turns for 2 warriors, then 15? turns for a settler. So the deer site will be revealed before we have to decide to settle it by the 2nd border pop.

I'm fine with the blue path or either of the green paths and trusts WW to make effective use of hills and defensive terrain as he sees fit.

 

[Manco Capac]

I'm fine with the blue path or either of the green paths and trusts WW to make effective use of hills and defensive terrain as he sees fit.

I agree with this: by the time whether blue or green paths are better, animals will come out and following strictly an ideal path leads to jeopardize the warrior's survival.
I think there even is a third path (which consumes 1 more turns instead of two), but here's what I propose to Walter_Wolf: make a stopping point around T6 to see which path is better according to the terrain.

In addition, we shall not unfog any purple-crossed tiles in the first attachment because the peaks will take care of it.

 

[Walter_Wolf]

I don't have time atm.
Do we have to test peak unfogging before I start?

 

[bcool]

no we don't

 

[Manco Capac]

Test done.

DanF5771

 

[Walter_Wolf]

Ready

Got it

playing

T1 - T4 eventless.

T5 a friendly face:

Spoiler :

T7 gmphrrr BFC strategy layer item added by mistake. sorry

T8 map:

Spoiler :

A fearsome lion:

Spoiler :

I can move to the hill T9 and risk but reveal much land

avoided the "fight"

Another "strategic move"?

Spoiler :

Do I escape again or face one of them?

 

[Manco Capac]

Map? ^__^ Waters...
What is strategy layer item?

WW, did Toku have full espionage on you? If not, then he knows the existence of others AI's. For example, for the first turn, if he directs all 4 :EP: onto you, then he barely knows the existence of others. Even being buddist, worst foes take time to recover from hatred via religion.
BUT, there is still a possibility of modified diplo from the start like "Past events brought our people together stuff".

Toku is SE! We might lose that sweet spot.

 

[Walter_Wolf]

toku is at 15/12 espionage with me. Interpret that for me please

 

[Manco Capac]

toku is at 15/12 espionage with me. Interpret that for me please

IIRC, you have automatically put three turns of 4 EP onto him while M.Toku seems to have put more via the slider it seems. Looks like he doesn't know the existence of others. That might be an occasion of worker stealing, perhaps. But the worker isn't ready for sure. We will have to wait more turns before being trained.

Rectification: Toku met you and put 4 EP on you on IBT4-5. IBT5-6: more 4 EP. IBT6-7: additional 4 EP. T7-8: another shot of 3 EP onto you. A grand total of 15 EP plus another EP on another individual. No slider after all...
Did Toku encounter you at the beginning of T5? Looks like Toku met someone else with his other scout IBT7-8.

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I wonder if going for the forest behind the river is an interesting choice. He has good defense and after some healing, if the other lion approaches, the river protects the warrior even more. What do you think bcool? We may raise an easy woodsman II for worker farming or better exploration.

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Where's the unrestricted leaders aspect: Toku of the Japanese...?

 

[bcool]

I would go NW again with the warrior and meet the lion to the warrior's west in battle, but that will be in the next turn set.

 

[Walter_Wolf]

I'll leave that decision to mabraham. If I moved 1N1W, we would see most of the deer site BFC, but it's the beginning of the next player's turnset anyway, so I don't wan't to afford this guy Toto's faith .

EDIT: for the record, both lions are at full health.

 

[Manco Capac]

I would go NW again with the warrior and meet the lion to the warrior's west in battle, but that will be in the next turn set.

Sweet.

I think the odds are around 95-97 % of defense. I can't believe we will be unlucky once again .

I'll leave that decision to mabraham.

The unlucky guy...uh oh...

 

[Walter_Wolf]

GOTM server upload info:

Spoiler :

Thank you, Walter_Wolf. Your entry has been recorded and your upload is complete.

You may confirm that your submission is in the system by checking the submission list.

Here are the new details we have recorded.
Reference number: 11482
Game: C-IV SGOTM 15
Your team: Kakumeika
Your name: Walter_Wolf
Date submitted: 2012-01-31
Software Version: BtS 3.19
Game date: 3600BC
Player race: India
Firaxis score: 31
Session time played (hh:mm:ss): 01:05:05
Total time played (hh:mm:ss): 01:45:12
Game status: Incomplete
Submitted save: Gandhi_3600-BC_Jan-31-2012_23-21-53.CivBeyondSwordSave
Renamed file: Kakumeika_SG015_BC3600_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

Right click the Renamed File link above to copy it.
You can then paste it into your team post as the download link for the next player.


Here is your Session Turn Log from 3960 BC to 3600 BC:

Turn 1, 3960 BC: Delhi has been founded.

Turn 5, 3800 BC: The borders of Delhi have expanded!

You may wish to copy it to Notepad for reference when you write your turn set post. It includes any entries you added with the in-game Chat facility

And autolog info:

Spoiler :

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 0/500 (4000 BC) [26-Jan-2012 17:28:40]
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 1/500 (3960 BC) [31-Jan-2012 22:15:59]
Delhi founded
Delhi begins: Fast Worker (10 turns)
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 2/500 (3920 BC) [31-Jan-2012 22:17:21]
Research begun: Polytheism (13 Turns)
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 3/500 (3880 BC) [31-Jan-2012 22:19:39]
Research begun: Polytheism (12 Turns)
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 4/500 (3840 BC) [31-Jan-2012 22:23:47]
Research begun: Polytheism (11 Turns)
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 5/500 (3800 BC) [31-Jan-2012 22:25:42]
Research begun: Polytheism (10 Turns)
Player contact made: Tokugawa of Japan
100% Research: 9 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

After End Turn:
Delhi's borders expand

Turn 6/500 (3760 BC) [31-Jan-2012 22:31:13]
100% Research: 10 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 7/500 (3720 BC) [31-Jan-2012 22:36:42]
100% Research: 10 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 8/500 (3680 BC) [31-Jan-2012 22:40:37]
100% Research: 10 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

Turn 9/500 (3640 BC) [31-Jan-2012 22:57:37]
100% Research: 10 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: 0 per turn, 0 in the bank

It wasn't a very eventfull turnset, so I haven't got much to report, but I took a ton of screenshots and will put them in the mentioned service for you to download. I need some time to prepare that.

 

[Manco Capac]

IIRC, you have automatically put three turns of 4 EP onto him while M.Toku seems to have put more via the slider it seems. Looks like he doesn't know the existence of others. That might be an occasion of worker stealing, perhaps. But the worker isn't ready for sure. We will have to wait more turns before being trained.

Rectification: Toku met you and put 4 EP on you on IBT4-5. IBT5-6: more 4 EP. IBT6-7: additional 4 EP. T7-8: another shot of 3 EP onto you. A grand total of 15 EP plus another EP on another individual. No slider after all...
Did Toku encounter you at the beginning of T5? Looks like Toku met someone else with his other scout IBT7-8.

Okay, I looked the map again and I deduce you made contact with Toku first. Then the higher slider is the only explanation for a 15 EP in three turns. Perhaps, Toku have made no other contacts.

 

[Walter_Wolf]

This should be the Demographic screen T0 - T10 .

Terrain screenshots

and the other stuff

Please tell me if it works

 

[mabraham]

Thanks WW, looks great.

Attached is an additional one that has information of high importance - we can see Toku's culture to the SE, so the race for the gold-corn site is on!

Observations from screenshots:

• Toku is putting 5EPs/turn on us
• The Mahabodi city is landlocked (rival best land went to 21000 T1)
• Every AI started with GNP at least 3 higher than us, which I can't completely rationalize from them having Buddhism. They can't all be creative...
• One non-Mahabodi AI has only 6 land tiles in its capital's inner ring.
• T3 creative non-Mahabodi AIs popped borders. They gained 21000 land points total. Assuming a land tile is worth 1000 points, and observing that a full land BFC would gain 12 land tiles, it seems most likely that there are two creative leaders and that they gained 21 tiles between them, but three creative leaders gaining only about 7 each is possible.
• T4 non-creative non-Mahabodi AIs popped borders. They gained 49 land tiles, so either six non-creative leaders gained about 8 tiles each, or five non-creative leaders gained about 10 tiles each. Either way, there's a fair few of coastal AIs. The worst has only 13 land tiles.
• T5 Mahabodi popped again, but only gained 8 tiles, so it must be near coast. Apparently Mahabodi settled a new city, actually.
• T6 We popped and are ranked 5th on land. In case of ties, the Demographics screen gives you the lowest rank, not the highest (i.e. with 29 21 21 21 21 the 21s are 5th). Since only the Mahabodi can have more land than us, four other AIs are landlocked like us. So if one of those landlocked AIs is creative, the coastal creative has 18, and the other coastal three have around 16 each. If none of those landlocked AIs is creative, then we have something like three coastal creatives on about 16, and a coastal non-creative on 18.
• T10 Mahabodi popped again.

 

[mabraham]

I tested the results of leaving the warrior to bunker down and take two combats. I had to do that with us having the lion and barbs having the warrior. AIs get a 40% bonus to animal combat, unlike our 10%, so I had to remove the forest and add C1 and C2 to the barb warriors to get the same combat odds as we would face. In 20 trials, the pair of lions killed the warrior 4 four times. So I think we must move the warrior somewhere.

 

[mabraham]

That corn-sheep-gold site with lots of river grassland looks mighty mighty tasty. It looks like we can also settle 1N1E of deer and pick up at least a grassland cow, and if the gems has something with it, that'll be awesome also.

If we tech Wheel->Ag while building two warriors next, then we have time to finish three mines and put roads 1S1E of Delhi, on deer, 1S1E of deer and on gold to sync with a T31 settler completion, so we could settle 1S of sheep on T33 with a trade route in place (need to test for sure). We'd need a warrior or two lurking to secure the route and site, but there's still a spare warrior heading west. We build a second worker in the capital to improve the farms and then we look around at whether we want Masonry wonders or settlers for gems and/or deer sites. The worst case scenario is that Toku beats us there and we fall back on 1N1E of deer.

Alternatively, teching Ag->Wheel (done T30 I think) gets the capital farm up much earlier which gets the settler built a turn or two earlier, which partially compensates for the longer travel time to settle (the settler heads south-east to get partly around the hill country by using the tile 1S of gold). We get Wheel in time to put down the two roads that are necessary for trade routes (1E of deer and 1N of gold - note we're exploiting the fact that Hinduism pops the border out to the deer on around T24). The city can plant T34 after the last road completes. The worker can start the second city's corn farm T35. We still have trade routes before settling, we're one turn later settling and our road structure is not as nice, but we have the capital's corn farm up and are not locked into a second worker absolutely immediately. I'm pretty sure we'll need two warrior escorts to make this safe.