it's our spending against them - their spending against us.
In particular, if we are outspending him, he'll increase his weight against us.
SGOTM 15 - One Short Straw
- Thread starter AlanH
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it's our spending against them - their spending against us.
In particular, if we are outspending him, he'll increase his weight against us.
LowtherCastle
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Toku's AttitudeVal for us is -4 and for Hammy>=5. WIth others, Toku's likely to be positive with Buddhism. Toku's spent 4 less than us on him. Assuming his spending difference with others is close to zero, I get:
4/8 - (-4) - 5 - 5 - ... so the value is negative. I suppose that means TOku's under no pressure to use the espionage slider to lift it up past 5eppt.
As for the changes in TOku's and Hammy's assignments, I guess that could be meeeting other AIs or just having an arms race with each other?
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Okay I found the formula for the percentage of overall EP spending:
(2*Toku'sTotalEPs + OurTotalEPS)/(Toku'sTotalEPs + 2*OurTotalEPS) which gives 107% for a 5:4 ratio and 114% for a 6:4 ratio.
4/8 - (-4) - 5 - 5 - ... so the value is negative. I suppose that means TOku's under no pressure to use the espionage slider to lift it up past 5eppt.
As for the changes in TOku's and Hammy's assignments, I guess that could be meeeting other AIs or just having an arms race with each other?
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Okay I found the formula for the percentage of overall EP spending:
(2*Toku'sTotalEPs + OurTotalEPS)/(Toku'sTotalEPs + 2*OurTotalEPS) which gives 107% for a 5:4 ratio and 114% for a 6:4 ratio.
Toku and Hammy have not spent any EP against each other.
I'm at a loss to explain how it got to 4ept for Hammy - anything less can be explained by him meeting AIs.
That was my bad explanation though - you only sum the positive espionage weights,
so there's ~4 from us, 0 from Hamm., and who knows from his other contacts. Still, that gets put through some harsh multipliers in Toku's case, so he probably won't spend commerce on espionage soon.
btw: there's something wrong about my explanation, since Hammi continues to spend on us, but not on Toku.
Mitchum
Deity
I couldn't figure out how to un-meet the AI, so I started over. 
Attached are the 4000 BC save and the WB file. I didn't try to fog gaze, so a lot the the land outside our view is not correct, especially "outside" the donut to our west and south. I checked it twice, but there is bound to be an error or twenty somewhere...
Rather than play it forward moving each AI in turn so that I can control their builds and research path, I'm going to bed.
My eyes are starting to bug out anyway. I hope that someone is able to play this forward to our current turn.
I'm beginning to think that Neil made Domination/Conquest very difficult if not impossible with the mountainous donut hole surrounded by a canal and the mountains to the south... He could have even put an AI in the middle of the donut hole...
Attached are the 4000 BC save and the WB file. I didn't try to fog gaze, so a lot the the land outside our view is not correct, especially "outside" the donut to our west and south. I checked it twice, but there is bound to be an error or twenty somewhere...
Rather than play it forward moving each AI in turn so that I can control their builds and research path, I'm going to bed.
My eyes are starting to bug out anyway. I hope that someone is able to play this forward to our current turn.I'm beginning to think that Neil made Domination/Conquest very difficult if not impossible with the mountainous donut hole surrounded by a canal and the mountains to the south... He could have even put an AI in the middle of the donut hole...
Dhoomstriker
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Hmmm, I wonder... could an Apostolic Palace victory be impossible... except if it's a Buddhist one?I'm beginning to think that Neil made Domination/Conquest very difficult if not impossible with the mountainous donut hole surrounded by a canal and the mountains to the south... He could have even put an AI in the middle of the donut hole...
I mean, could it actually end up turning out to our advantage to let an AI build a Buddhist AP?
Or, if that happened, would the Diplo be so tough as to not be worth it relative to the number of the Hammers that the AIs will get?
Let's say that for the sake of argument, 1 AI is not reachable and that Domination + Conquest are pretty ridiculous to achieve.
What does that leave us with? Probably Conquest or Cultural.
In that case, I'd probably rather target a militaristic victory approach and, if we eventually switch to Cultural, we can gift away Cities after whipping them dry for Missionary-building purposes as well as Gold from City-capturing purposes as well as messing up the AIs' building of Wonders as well as capturing their Wonders (like The Pyramids).
That way, if a non-Buddhist Apostolic Palace Victory does turn out to be possible, we'll be in good shape to try and get it.
So, where does that leave us? Still going for a Catapult beeline.
LowtherCastle
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This Server is Too Busy crap is extremely annoying. SHould we switch back to the quick topic until it stabilizes?
LowtherCastle
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ZPV, how do you know that Toku and Hammy haven't spent any EP on each other?
I know its a bit late, but Dhoom is correct. For next time.....
Open the WB file in notepad, and remove the blue lines:
BeginTeam
TeamID=1
...
ContactWithTeam=1
ContactWithTeam=2
RevealMap=0
EndTeam
BeginTeam
TeamID=2
...
ContactWithTeam=1
ContactWithTeam=2
RevealMap=0
EndTeam
LowtherCastle
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I fear I have a bit of bad news. As far as I can tell, Mitchum made both of his test maps without the latest mod (...019). I don't think that's what we want. Does anyone know how to alter that? I sure don't.
Copy the WB file Mitchum provided into your Saves/Worldbuilder directory, start Civ4, select 'Single', then 'Play a scenario' and you can open the WB file with whatever mod you like.
I have done this, and attached the resulting save. Enjoy
I have done this, and attached the resulting save. Enjoy
On the F4 Glance screen, mousing over the Hammy-Toku relation shows that their EP is at 0/0.
LowtherCastle
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Okay guys, I'm going to do some work on Mitch's test save.
LowtherCastle
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ZPV, not sure I was clear on this. Hammy has continued to produce 5eppt (107%). What changed was how much he assigned to us. So clearly he's assigning them to someone else. Same with Toku. At least one other AI each. Since AIs they meet haven't met us, those AIs have to assign their eppt to someone. My guess is Hammy sent out a wb and is meeting AIs faster than Toku. Or, I suppose it's possible Hammy is in an arms race with 1 AI and that's why it changes on consecutive turns, if that actually happens. That would be interesting to observe via debug mode. But it strikes me as unlikely since he's not spending more on espionage.
I realize he's just assigning less and less to us. I just can't explain why he'd assign 4eppt to us in particular (whereas I could theoretically explain the other values).
However, it must be due to meeting new rivals that he doesn't particularly like.
LowtherCastle
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Okay, here's how I understand the epsionage weights, LEt me know if this jibes with your understanding.
Spoiler :
LowtherCastle
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Here's a revised version of Mitchum's test save.
LowtherCastle
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Another detail on the test save: AIs don't have the 10h bonus. That, btw, would explain Toku's late worker. How do we correct this?
I bet you're right - the pre-founded capital cities wouldn't have gotten a 10h bonus.
Mitchum
Deity
What 10H bonus?
Out of curiosity, what did you change in the test game?
Neil, thanks for the help. I started the game with the correct HOF mod, so I'm not sure why it wasn't in the test save...
EDIT: And do you want me to play it forward to the end of my turnset? I noticed that you pre-moved the settler and warrior...
Out of curiosity, what did you change in the test game?
Neil, thanks for the help. I started the game with the correct HOF mod, so I'm not sure why it wasn't in the test save...
EDIT: And do you want me to play it forward to the end of my turnset? I noticed that you pre-moved the settler and warrior...
LowtherCastle
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On emporer level AIs start with 10h in their initial city build. In the test game I added the mountain tiles and changed Toku's pigs to grass and sheep to grass hill. I moved our units for no good reason. I did Tokus'a dn Hammy's turns in debug (I think).
If we're going to leave the AIs with no hammers to start with, then you could go ahead and play your turns, but Toku should then start with a worker and not the archer.
Hammy doesn't do Pottery after Sailing, I don't think, but either AH or BW and it's incomplete. But that's part of my turnset.
If we're going to leave the AIs with no hammers to start with, then you could go ahead and play your turns, but Toku should then start with a worker and not the archer.
Hammy doesn't do Pottery after Sailing, I don't think, but either AH or BW and it's incomplete. But that's part of my turnset.
