ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
You can find all the possible city center and terrain combinations in the Comprehensive Guide to Terrain, Improvements, Resources, and City Placement.
-
We created a new subforum for the Civ7 reviews, please check them here!
SGOTM 15 - Unusual Suspects
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Thanks for the tip on the guide. I think I read that a while ago but its probably worth a refresher. I think we'll want the AP even if we go Dom, just to prevent the AP resident from hurting our war efforts with resolutions.
Note, the ONLY way we'll ever be able to be AP resident is if it is built in the Hindu religion, or we capture it. It is unlikely another civ will adopt hindu to build the AP, so figure on build it or capture it. So the religion condition is going to affect all the victory conditions.
And don't downplay the importance of your contribution, H
JJ. 
Experience tends to make us think along the same lines. We need to be challenged with ideas outside our comfort-zone to find what works best here. 
High King J.J.
Prince
In other words, my usefulness is directly proportional to my inexperience, impractical preferences and obsessive tendenciesAnd don't downplay the importance of your contribution, H
Based on that I must be our greatest asset.Maybe none should take me too seriously.
It goes against my national and personal tendencies to claim personal credit when it can be avoided. In this case it goes against common sense too.
SteelHorse
Deity
EDIT: Oops - just remembered we have to stay in the religion - so kcd statement is correct. So ignore the bit below about flipping to Christianity.
I've played a couple of test games. I am not sure the above statement is true. Here is an article on a Diety AP victory. It advocates building it in a lightly spread religion. To do this one could bulb or Sling into Theology and build in Christianity.
http://http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=317892
"When you are 5 turns away from completing the AP, change to the least spread religion you have, that no-one is running. Complete the AP in this religion."
The idea would be to spread Hindu to as many as possible for shared religion bonuses, flip to Christianity while building AP, flip back to Hindu after, spam Christian missionaries to our cities first, then to the rest of the world. Need to keep track of the 75% limit. Need to get at least one AI to friendly that is not the #2 Christianity. (saving a lot of forests in the chosen city for chopping AP is a good idea).
Note: I haven't tested this approach. But the test map is a good one for that.
Here are some observations from the test game I played.
The no tech brokering seems to give a big advantage to humans. Taking the less traveled tech path allows the human many more trade possibilities than the AI which tend toward similar techs.
The hard part in the games I tried was getting folks to Friendly to vote. To get there I had to have same religion, fair tech trades, favorite civic, and war against same enemy.
The big question will be can we spread Christianity w/o needing Astro and converting AI (if they are overseas) using caravels. Early exploration, as always, will be a big help.
Having a target enemy w/o the Hindu and AP religion for shared war bonus dogpile once the AP is built is a good idea. They need to be wiped out though for victory vote (or gifted a city with AP religion at the end).
I suggest everyone take a try with the test game. For those, that haven't tried an AP victory (like me) it was very entertaining. If I can get a victory using the approach above, I will post.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
I'm a big fan of obsessive tendencies. Welcome to the team.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
I created a second test game and worldbuilder file - named Unusual2 and test2. In this test, every opponent has Mysticism at the beginning of the game.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
Which way to move the warrior? I vote NE.
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
I thought there was some sentiment in favor of settling on stone and building Stonehenge, for a very quick Great Prophet shrine and fast border pops.
Trystero
Deity
I'm inclined to agree with this. I think early hammers could be put to better use than SH. With the extra AIs, we could get boxed in if we don't expand quickly enough (depends on the map, obviously). In that case, we'd be better off settling on marble, and getting a GPro from The Oracle, when we've possibly spread Hinduisim around a bit.
But again it needs testing. I'm giving a presentation on Thursday morning,so I'll have more time at the end of the week.
Xcalibrator
Ultraviolet Catastrophe
I kind of lean toward settling on the stone rather than the marble because of Stonehenge (and possibly Great Wall). But either way, we can finish building two warriors and then start a fast worker just as we reach pop2. We would get Polytheism on T13 that way, and Agriculture on T21, two turns after the FW finishes; I had him start a mine while waiting for Agri to start the corn farm, which worked out pretty well. (Yeah, nothing profound, but it's something to compare against. 
)
)
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
If we build Great Wall, would a Great Spy help us with conversions and other diplomacy on the route to the Apostolic Palace?
AAA
Warlord
Hello and checking in.
And reading all the posts.
Hopefully having something coherent to say soon
And reading all the posts.
Hopefully having something coherent to say soon
AAA
Warlord
The temple that he grew up living next to, has accepted him to join them, but the voyage home is a long and treacherous one. He is of course caught at sea by vikings. They sack and burn the ship, leaving everyone for dead. After days or perhaps weeks at sea, praying to Shiva , Gandhi is washed up in a strange, hostile land.
Dazed, in darkness he stumbles inland, following a river, falling asleep on a river beach. You are playing Gandhi of the Indians.
This says to me a lot of water, and I would guess that neilmeister has designed the scenario to make it virtually impossible to get an AP win without Astro. He might have left a Dom win without Astro possible just to be fun
.
Does anyone have experience playing a neilmeister scenario, it would be very useful to have a look in his brain
. Does he like to really change the map round? Does he set traps for the reckless?
I have NO EXPERIENCE playing SGOTM, does it favor cautious play or aggressive/reckless play? In Gauntlet or Hall of Fame play caution is death, but of course you can try 30 starts until your recklessness pays off.
My suspicion is that the game will turn on teching and whacking and that the normal AP winning concerns won't be paramount.
Do we know what sort of style of play we want to favor, are we going for broke or do we prefer caution?
I like the marble to settle on, although I always prefer a start with money
Dazed, in darkness he stumbles inland, following a river, falling asleep on a river beach. You are playing Gandhi of the Indians.
This says to me a lot of water, and I would guess that neilmeister has designed the scenario to make it virtually impossible to get an AP win without Astro. He might have left a Dom win without Astro possible just to be fun
.Does anyone have experience playing a neilmeister scenario, it would be very useful to have a look in his brain
. Does he like to really change the map round? Does he set traps for the reckless?I have NO EXPERIENCE playing SGOTM, does it favor cautious play or aggressive/reckless play? In Gauntlet or Hall of Fame play caution is death, but of course you can try 30 starts until your recklessness pays off
. My suspicion is that the game will turn on teching and whacking and that the normal AP winning concerns won't be paramount.
Do we know what sort of style of play we want to favor, are we going for broke or do we prefer caution?
I like the marble to settle on, although I always prefer a start with money
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
I would rather lose by taking chances than finish in the middle of the pack by playing conservatively. Note that "win" means getting a medal. SGOTM if nothing else rewards first good strategy and second great micro.
Hey, half the team's online right now! I had a post get lost due to internet issue. kcd can relate.
My point was, we will have culture from religion, so Stonehenge Monuments are less valuable.
Which wonders do we want most? Stonehenge, Great Wall, Oracle, Pyramids, others?
What about our neighbors? Will we be able to go into wonder mode?
We won't know anything about our neighbors when we decidde between stone and marble for settling. Is earlier stone (presumably for a wonder) more important than a better city?
My point was, we will have culture from religion, so Stonehenge Monuments are less valuable.
Which wonders do we want most? Stonehenge, Great Wall, Oracle, Pyramids, others?
What about our neighbors? Will we be able to go into wonder mode?
We won't know anything about our neighbors when we decidde between stone and marble for settling. Is earlier stone (presumably for a wonder) more important than a better city?
LOL, thanks kcd
Has everyone seen the original? It's a classic.
===
EDIT: hmmn, what's the connection between xkcd and kcd_swede?
ChrisShaffer
Board gamer
This is a huge issue if the map isn't huge. We have too many AI in the game...
