SGOTM 15 - Unusual Suspects

We have 126 gold in the bank. All out research would get Paper in about 6 turns or so. Selling CoL for 40 may shave a turn off. UoS (550 hammers) in the Capital (22 base * 2 = 44) would take about 13 turns. Maybe a whip at the end to shave a couple of turns.

Liz and Hatty can research Paper now. Hatty is at war not likely researching Paper. Liz is a risk. Already has Guilds. Could be headed to Lib.

Do we feel UoS is all or nothing now?
 
SteelHorse said:
We have 126 gold in the bank. All out research would get Paper in about 6 turns or so. Selling CoL for 40 may shave a turn off. UoS (550 hammers) in the Capital (22 base * 2 = 44) would take about 13 turns. Maybe a whip at the end to shave a couple of turns.

Liz and Hatty can research Paper now. Hatty is at war not likely researching Paper. Liz is a risk. Already has Guilds. Could be headed to Lib.

Do we feel UoS is all or nothing now?
Click to expand...

I'd argue strongly it is. If we fail to get Sankore, then teching must be done by economy (or slowing growth to run specialists), and we don't have much of one. We can do without Spiral. We need Sankore if we hope to simply keep up in tech.
 
SteelHorse said:
We have 126 gold in the bank. All out research would get Paper in about 6 turns or so. Selling CoL for 40 may shave a turn off. UoS (550 hammers) in the Capital (22 base * 2 = 44) would take about 13 turns. Maybe a whip at the end to shave a couple of turns.
Click to expand...

Pillaging around Tokyo (we have 3 turns to turn it into a barren wasteland before it comes out of revolt--but leave enough food for it to grow for whipping) will give more gold. UofS can be built in 9 (possibly 8) turns without whipping. Hammer factor is 2.75 (not 2) from stone, Bureau, and OrgRel -->60 hpt. Try to have a big overflow from the preceding build go into the first turn. Running a priest instead of a cottage would give us an extra 3hpt but may not be worth it. With a maximized overflow of 58 plus 8 turns of 60hpt (total 538), running a priest for 4 turns would get us UofS in 8 turns.

As vra said, we're running out of time. And nobody's replied to my delay suggestion in the Maintenance thread, so I don't think we can expect an extension. As you've seen from my obsessive MM ;), I'd like to have a more detailed PPP, but under the circumstances I'm willing to let SH play until completion of UofS and do whatever he thinks best given our input so far. SH, can you play tonight? If so, how do you all feel about posting some final comments and giving a green light?
 
I'm fine with SH playing without a detailed PPP. Provisional Green from me as long he doesn't let the power go to his head. ;)
 
Greeen. And oh SteelHorse...

Spoiler :
Nothing personal, but come back speaking Classical Arabic in a cap and gown or.....wellll.... - No pressure :mischief:
 
Sorry, was away for the weekend. Glad to hear that the Tokus are fighting each other.

I agree that UoS is critical, and we are running out of time. Green from me.

edit - I'm unlikely to be able to play another turn set before the deadline, calendar is too crazy.
 
Some reminders/suggestions for SH:
  • Build research to get Paper quickly.
  • Build UofS ASAP. (Use overflow, maybe run priests.)
  • Run specs when/if that improves our research rate.
  • Pillage Tokyo before it comes out of revolt.
  • Whip Islamic missionary in Tokyo, infect other city--do not give away Tokyo until we have a successful infection--maybe send it to a religionless city to be sure.
  • Infect Tokyo with Hinduism. Do not give it away until infected.
  • Spread Hinduism to our other cities.
  • Build spies to explore.
  • Use the power of the AP.
  • Run artists in Kyoto and Varanasi til borders pop.
  • Granary/Moai in Varanasi.
  • Trade deer for Shaka's 6 gpt--are both our 2 deer hooked up? Review existing trades/gifts.
  • Sell CoL to Shaka for gold, or even gift it to improve relations.
  • Try to get open borders/trade routes with somebody. (Yeah, it'll take awhile.)
  • Chop forests for temples, etc. (Chop hammers are saved when building research.)
  • We could use some more spears/cats to defend Vijay. And/or shift more units up there.
  • Have standby settler and H missionary.
  • Build another worker? (Build settler/worker in city that would exceed its happy cap by growth.)
  • Do not use our GG yet.
  • Trade for techs if possible--remember, no tech brokering, so they can't spread what we give them.
 
It's getting a bit late to hear from kcd and others, but I think we have a strong enough quorum to give a team GREEN. SH, if you're out there, you may play through the completion of the University of Sankore. Play with wisdom and luck!
 
I am a bit uncomfy without a PPP. I know time is limited but I am taking a hard look now and will get a PPP out tonight and can play tomorrow night.


PPP Draft - Race to Sankore

Objective: Research Paper at quickest rate then build Saankore in Bolly. Switching from specialist to mines after Paper in 5 turns.

Get Cash ideas:
1. Sell CoL for Shaka for 40 gold
2. ? Sell Theo for 120 to Hatty ? No word on this so I am going to hold off.
3. ? Shaka will give 6 gpt for the deer. This leaves up w/o deer but only Bolly is at health Cap. Is this worth it? (2nd deer we are getting 7gpt from Gandhi) Moving forward with this as 6gpt is worth more than 1f imho.
4. Pillage Tokyo villages.
5. Others as they become available and are reasonable.

Civics - no change until Paper (for specialists in Bolly), then switch to Slavery to get 4-5 missionaries, 2 Settlers, temples, 2 spies,

Research: As needed to get Paper in 5 then 0.

Hindu Infecting Priority: Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka + new cities

Bolly (During Paper - 46.2bpt) - 4 Sci Spec, Corn, Farm, 1 mine, rest villages, etc.

Bolly (During Sankore - 66hpt) - Hammer Bonus 50% Cap, 100% Stone, 25% Hindu = 175%. Work 3 Mines, Copper, Corn, Farm, and as many priest without scarificing a pop. Whip as many as needed to get Sanore at end.

All other cities to Research until Paper.

Post Paper:
Vijay - Whip Temple, Whip Monastery
Bombay - Finish Temple, Whip Monastery (mine iron)
Delhi - Finish worker(before Paper), Research(during paper), whip Missionary (infect Kyoto), Monastery
Pata - Finish Temple, Whip Missionary, Monastery
Drona - Build Missionary, Build 2 Settlers (1 - for Hammy, and 2 - Fish City in South for islam and hindu eventually gift to Toku?), Build 2 Spies
Osaka - Whip Granery, Get Hindu, Whip Temple, Whip Missionary
Kyoto - After border pop, reassign artist, Whip Temple, Whip CH
Tokyo - Whip Islamic Missionaries until infection succeeds.
Varansi - Run artist for border pop (during paper) after Whip Granary into Moai, Whip LH into Moai, Chop into Moai

Troops: All southern to Kyoto (after pillaging Tokyo) and all northern to Vijay.

City Gift to Hammy: Settle NNW of Vijay wheat infect and gift. Consensus to hold off which I will do. But I do disagree as it gets us a diplo point and an AP voting member that we MIGHT be able to open border with through a resolution.

Options for Hatty and Toku.
Tokyo - gift to Toku and let Hatty take or gift to Hatty for diplo bonus? Once we get the infection the Toku gift is probably best. May not be enough for him to get him to switch and it will be short-lived as Hatty will take. Thoughts? Will play this one by ear.

Pause: Anything goes amiss.
Stop: Sankore
 
SH - Good PPP. green

Consider:
build monasteries before temples? hmmn, monasteries are a 2 pop whip and temples 1 pop? - guess temple first gets hammers sooner

found southern fish city before gift city? hmmn, maybe need to build gift city while we can? we can infect a captured city, but what is chance of capturing one from Ham?

Xcal - I certainly enjoyed (and concurred with) your time extension suggestion. Perhaps our calling Gold intimidated the others. Or they are doing so badly that more time won't help them.
And 'grats on your diety win.
 
SteelHorse said:
Options for Hatty and Toku.
Tokyo - gift to Toku and let Hatty take or gift to Hatty for diplo bonus? Once we get the infection the Toku gift is probably best. May not be enough for him to get him to switch and it will be short-lived as Hatty will take. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I know I advocated the Toku gift earlier, but this seems like a judgement call depending on the circumstances. Do whatever seems most beneficial at the time you are ready to gift.

The plan gets a "Go!" from me. Good luck.
 
Trystero said:
I know I advocated the Toku gift earlier, but this seems like a judgement call depending on the circumstances. Do whatever seems most beneficial at the time you are ready to gift.

The plan gets a "Go!" from me. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Mke sure Toku is not Hatty's worst enemy if you are gifting Tokyo to Toku. If that is the case, then its better just to gift it straight to Hatty. Toku's votes won't mean much... in fact, he'd make a great AP opponent. But Hatty we'd like to make less belligerent, I think -- but since its a Toku personality, you need Friendly for that to happen, so its not a big deal.

RL made me unable to check in the last couple days. :( The PPP is GREEN.

And to (hopefully) clear up a couple misconceptions... GM cannot enter closed borders afaik, and Islam was founded like turn 24 or something, so somebody has had DR for a long time now.
 
Green. I'd vote to gift Tokyo directly to Hatty since we can always gift a city to Toku and know he'll take it because AIs always accept a city, even if it doesn't connect to their existing territory, once they're down to 3 (or maybe 2?) cities. (And we have some open land N of Oska/E of Drona where we could squeeze in a crap city.) It's implicit in the PPP, but don't forget "Pillage around Tokyo" and "Whip Islamic missionary." I'd also vote to take Shaka's 6gpt for the deer. We have 2 deer--where's the other one going? Either it's not connected yet or we're giving/trading it to somebody else, so it could be cancelled if necessary.

My one significant reservation is about settling/gifting an infected city to Hammy. First, I'd like to see if there's a good choke point city site up there (in the unexplored pass to Shaka) and maybe grab that ASAP. Second, settling and gifting a city to Hammy implies that we've given up on attacking him and securing a better defensive position, which I think may be a mistake. Can we hold off on this decision until the next turnset, or should we decide now?

Edit: Duh, I now see SH's statement: "Tokyo - Whip Islamic Missionaries until infection succeeds." But don't forgot to pillage. ;)
 
PPP has been updated. Will play in approx an hour. Going to get some dinner first - hate racing for Sankore on an empty stomach. Last chance for input.
 
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