SGOTM 15 - Unusual Suspects

[Trystero]

Yes. Yes, it will. Thank you.

 

[neilmeister]

Then let me do this

I deserve it.

 

[Trystero]

Ok, now you are just mocking me.

Off to bed, I have to get up for work in 6 hours.

 

[neilmeister]

Well, maybe a little

 

[Xcalibrator]

Good decision to stop when you did, Trys. Lots of decisions to make. It's nice that we didn't settle Bollywood on top of the copper; now if we could only mine it and hook it up.

Notes for the next player: We should use ^S to note the bear prowling to the north, and also mark the partially improved tiles (1/4 mine by Bolly, 1/5 farm by Delhi---are those correct?).

First thoughts and/or repeating what's already been said:

• We need 2 or 3 more warriors to fogbust and deal with the southern barb (who I suspect will not hesitate to enter our borders). Ideally this would give Bolly enough time to grow before continuing the settler. If we're lucky, the Japanese archer will kill the southern barb for us, but we should send one of our eastern warriors back west.
• Pick the next city site. Gems is fairly close and has lots of food from pigs, but will require substantial roading to connect it. Gold/deer will be connected by river but will grow more slowly and there's a bear up there. We could also go south for the marble and fish, but I'd probably go with gems.
• Research Wheel next to connect cities and copper for axes. Archery requires Hunting first and will be useless when we connect the copper.
• I hate to lose the hammers and commerce from Delhi's gold tile by whipping the monument. Maybe chop and send those hammers to a FW after the monument, then whip the rest of the FW--the city will recover its population faster if we wait to whip and the whip will be better timed with the no-growth FW build. We need more workers for roading, chopping, and lots of other stuff.
• Until we neutralize the southern barb it might be better to have the Bolly worker start a chop to his east.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

I think Trystero is planning to continue playing his turnset, and only uploaded an interim save.

I think gems is the best city spot by a big margin. Roads won't take that long to build.

Agree we should not whip in Delhi. I didn't realize we were considering that. A chop or manual build is much better.

Note that we have a warrior on the same tile as the Bollywood worker. I suggest sending it south to defend against the barbarian warrior.

 

[Trystero]

I will try to update the spreadsheet and a test save tonight so we can explore options.

We should probably dot map again, since all the land that is immediately available to us has been revealed.

I think chopping the monument in Delhi sounds good. And I like Chris' idea for sending the worker south near the copper to chop. It is far enough away from the barb, that we could retreat easily.

I wouldn't mind playing a few more turns (but another PPP seems in order). How about I play until The Wheel is in (~7 turns)?

Edit: Anyone know how Islam went so early? Judaism hasn't even been founded yet, so GP bulbing seems unlikely. Was one of our opponents given an additional starting tech?

 

[SteelHorse]

Mostly agree with Xcal.

Priorities from my perspective would be:
1. Getting Copper mined and hooked up with a road - with barb archers appearing having a couple of well placed axes collecting XP for HE enabling is a good way to go.
2. City 3 - 1N of Gems. Pasture pigs, then mine gems. 2 pop whip in Bolly for the settler when available.
3. Warriors for barb defense until copper hooked up.
4. More workers.

I think we need to bring the eastern worker west for #1 and #2. Monument should finish in two turns after growth onto gold - correct? Can whip down to pop 2 any future growth in Delhi for now.

Lotus should head west to help defend against barb with his woodsman skills. Guru should barricade himself in Delhi and say some prayers for good RNG outcomes.

Wheel next for #1.

Hurts to lose the warriors. C'est la vie. I favor healing in place unless there is imminent danger.

 

[Deckhand]

Mostly agree w SteelHorse. Thanks for identifying location of gems city. Other posts just said by gems, if they said where, I didn't notice.
Do we have time to chop that forest before the settler arrives? If worker starts his turn next to the tile, and discovers a barb on the pigs or W of gems, then he can safely retreat. (or is that a hill?) If he is there working, then he will spawnbust those locations. Are the few hammers from tile outside our borders and 4 tiles from city worth it?

Agree wheel. Agree by gems/pigs. Agree dotmap and PPP; and Trystero continues.

Think barbs will enter our borders if they see a worker but otherwise will stay out. Maybe someone can check. If I'm right, then don't put a worker where he can be seen.

We could spawnbust the north with only 3 warriors. Unfortunately: - would have to handle barb archer et al first, - Hammy is WHEOOHRN, - we don't have 3 warriors (to spare). Axes for Heroic Epic is a good alternative.
I think we want to build warriors until copper is hooked up, then axes and workers.

Chris, why do you think we have more time for Oracle? If all are Toku? But XCal looked up his wonder probability and it wasn't that low.

@HKJJ, 'grats on getting a life.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

Aggressive AI don't prioritize wonders.

 

[Deckhand]

Aggressive AI don't prioritize wonders.

Good point. My impression is that Toku (and Hammygawa as well) seems to prioritize the Great Wall. Maybe that goes with being protective.

 

[Trystero]

I've tried updating Xcalibrator's test game. All the unit moves should reflect the current situation. Our research beakers are off again, so The Wheel only takes 6 turns instead of 7. This might be because we've met more civs in the test game than in the real one, and are getting a discount from AI who have already researched The Wheel.

I will take a stab at some planning tomorrow.

 

[Xcalibrator]

Busy today so few comments. The forest N of the gems, where we want to settle, will give us 8 hammers. If the barb pillages our corn and FP farms (5 and 7 worker turns, respectively) we're going to be hurting on FWs.

Once Delhi grows (next turn, I think), we get the gold mine which will cut the time for Wheel to 5 turns.

Interesting idea to bring the Delhi worker back west to help with the copper (and maybe restore the farms). But then we couldn't chop forests by Delhi, slowing the FW after the monument is done. It needs a bit of MM study, which is hard because we don't know how much trouble the barb is going to be. My inclination is to do things that we know will be useful (and not affected by what the barb does) until we have two warriors on the scene, as opposed to moving workers around hoping that the barb won't interfere and waste the worker's time.

Note that the Great Wall was already been built by Hammy on T33 T43.

 

[kcd_swede]

What are the minimum pre-req's for Divine Rights? Sombody out there has THAT. I don't think "choose religions" is an option in this game, so DR was teched or bulbed. Do not abslove Neil of the "evil" moniker just yet.

IN a way, I guess that's good for US because teams that went (or go) BW > AH are way ahead of us at this stage. Tough AI will mitigate that as AH first will take some time to catch up to BW first.

Don't worry too much about the dead warriors at this point... Unusual Suspects has a graveyard full of them by now.

I agree with Steelhorse (and by default with Deckhand) in general on the way to proceed.

Sorry... been workin' 80hrs per week (and they are watching me) so I can't post as much as you are all used to.

Good job Trys!
Thanks for keeping things under control Xcal, doing a good job as captain!
Great dedication from Chris who almost didn't even join us this time.

As for strategy...
Talk it out, team.


Go Giants!

 

[ChrisShaffer]

If the barb pillages our corn and FP farms (5 and 7 worker turns, respectively) we're going to be hurting on FWs.

I hope we'd be able to send two warriors to kill the barbarian, rather than letting it pillage our resources. I think it would be worth delaying the gems settler to get a warrior out for this purpose.

Interesting idea to bring the Delhi worker back west to help with the copper (and maybe restore the farms). But then we couldn't chop forests by Delhi, slowing the FW after the monument is done.

I'd rather chop in Delhi.

as opposed to moving workers around hoping that the barb won't interfere and waste the worker's time.

I'd think we'll be using those improvements soon enough, but I take your point. Chopping a forest north of Bollywood would probably be more profitable than playing tag with the barbarian. It also avoids the problem of the barbarian seeing the worker and chasing it.

Note that the Great Wall was already been built by Hammy on T33.

Yup, Trystero and I both mentioned that this would increase the barbarian pressure on us from the north.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

Looked at map images again.

I concur that 1N of gems is optimal third city site. I also agree that the Bollywood worker should move 1E or 1NE and chop trees. The Delhi worker should also chop.

I think the Bollywood warrior should move south to protect the farms and Bolluwood should switch to building a warrior, which it can complete in two turns.

 

[AAA]

I think that plan to move forward is a good one, it will very much improve our tech rate and I'm always for that. Nice job everyone for mapping it out

In terms of Islam being founded, my suspicion is that Neil simply gave one of the AIs an Islamic missionary then stuck it on one of those tiny islands he is so famous for. Then the AI simply pops Islam as soon as it can fetch him. There is probably more missionaries out there to make a cultural win even harder.

I'm beginning to think Neil wants us to win a time victory .

The worker steal might still be an option, some AIs will not take an archer out of there cities until they have three or more, no matter how good the combat odds are. The question is, is Toku one of those AIs .

 

[Trystero]

The spreadsheet has been updated to the current situation.

So the rough plan is: research The Wheel. Switch to a warrior in Bollywood, then finish the settler. Worker #2 moves 1E and chops into the settler(?). Settler to 1N of gems. Do we finish the chop, or move the worker to the copper if the barb leaves? Whip the settler in that case?

Send the Bollywood warrior south to watch the barb warrior, and recall one of the warriors from Delhi to help with any other incursions.

No whipping the monument in Delhi. Worker #1 will chop in Delhi. Chop will go into a Fast Worker after the monument.

Edit: Divine Right requires Monarchy and Theology.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

Finish the chop, then mine copper, do not whip the settler (imho)

Pause condition if we lose another warrior.

Looks great to me, green light.

 

[Deckhand]

Don't forget to rename Delhi. Maybe in memory of our lost warriors? Did they have names?