SGOTM 16 - Fifth Element

Bspollux: it is probably best if you ask questions in this thread first and go to the maintenance thread if you can't get a satisfactory answer from us.

As far as your timetable question goes : the statement that the game starts on the 21st refers only to when the saves are available. We will continue these discussions for a week or more before any one actually makes any moves in the real game.
 
Initial Warrior move:
Either N or SW. These are the points that will reveal the most usefull parts of the map. If N shows some even moderately intresting field in the north we should move the settler SE so that we have the choice to settle there on T1 or NE of that, on T1 as well. Plus it reveals the southern forrest. At least its possible theres something growing or living there.

Roster / playing order: I'm away from late Sept 22nd till early 23rd it seems, dont plan me in there.
 
the statement that the game starts on the 21st refers only to when the saves are available. We will continue these discussions for a week or more before any one actually makes any moves in the real game.

WTH? From my point of view it seems like a must to save time now so that we got it later on when we need it! The warrior-move question should be answered before the save comes available. Everyone who has the slightest intrest in this game has had more then enough time to think about it and state his opinion. The one executing the move should be here waiting for the save, load it, move the warrior and upload the new infor for us all to see within like 5 mins from the start.

Wheres the problem?
 
WTH? From my point of view it seems like a must to save time now so that we got it later on when we need it! The warrior-move question should be answered before the save comes available. Everyone who has the slightest intrest in this game has had more then enough time to think about it and state his opinion. The one executing the move should be here waiting for the save, load it, move the warrior and upload the new infor for us all to see within like 5 mins from the start.

Wheres the problem?
The first few moves are the most important of the game. A wrong decision now could cost us 20 turns of development, whereas a sloppy rushed turnset at the end could cost us maybe 5 turns at the very worst.
edit: if you look at all the teams at 1000BC, you'll already know who the winner will be.
 
All: We need to focus some time on discussing the opening warrior move. Once that is done we will have a better idea of what to do with our Settler. We don't have to nail down our total strategy but we need to continue the discussion of VCs and wonder whoring.
The two options are north(ish) and SW.
The purpose of the first move is to look for something which could possibly change our minds, based on the initial screenshot, of where to settle. If no such information is possible (or very likely), then we want to move our warrior in the direction of general exploration.

My instinct is that a corn-fish capital just isn't suitable for this game - it doesn't have many production or commerce tiles that we'll need in the midgame, and isn't noticably fast-starting because the WB will take a long time to build - and that moving blindly into the forest doesn't represent a better gamble on resources than SIP (especially since this is a mapmaker-influenced map).

That means I ask, what do I have to find, not to want to SIP?
Food/hills north of the fish? Maybe. It depends just what we see. A big food resource and a hill might do it.

Something to the south? Very unlikely - we're running into the lack-of-production problem again.

So the question is, is 1N (or 1NE) likely enough to find us some goodies, to delay our further exploration? (since our borders will otherwise explore that area for us.)
It would require a food resource on one particular square (NNE) to be outside a SIP BFC, and also a hill further north. That doesn't look very likely, so I now move on to "where do we want our warrior to be, after we settle?"

Simply put, south and west.

BTW, 5thElement is really good at building all kinds of wonders whether they help us win or not.

:lol:
 
Construction? :lol:

Sorry. I should know by now that not everyone has English as their first language. A white elephant is an idiom that means something very expensive, often impressive to look at, and quite useless.
 
The first few moves are the most important of the game. A wrong decision now could cost us 20 turns of development, whereas a sloppy rushed turnset at the end could cost us maybe 5 turns at the very worst.
edit: if you look at all the teams at 1000BC, you'll already know who the winner will be.

Couldn't have said it better myself. We have 4months to finish and better to rush at the end than at the beginning.
 
Sorry. I should know by now that not everyone has English as their first language. A white elephant is an idiom that means something very expensive, often impressive to look at, and quite useless.

It's true that English is not my first language, but I did understand what you meant. I was just trying to make a joke :blush:

On topic:
I really like ZPV's arguments. We know that we have an FP in the initial position (WWS of settler), so SIP is not THAT bad. I also think that there will be at least one more resource in the BFC if we SIP, but that is pure speculation.
Anyway, throwing away a decent bureau capital for a mediocre city is a bad idea IMO. The start might be a bit slower, true - question is how many turns is the difference.
If we decide to move 1SE, we need to balance out the later costs of moving the capital, and the commerce loss of not working early cottages. We would also have 1 more tech to research (fishing). Sadly I don't have time to run tests until the weekend, but I am eagerly waiting for unclethrill's results on settling 1SE. The only thing that will help in this decision is if we can compare the two sites.

With the information currently available, my instinct is to SIP and move the warrior SW. If there is something to the north, we will grab it with the fish city, and the fish city could turn out to be a settler/worker pump, while the cap could grow its cottages.
 
No matter what we should move the warrior first and decide where to settle afterwards. And That is why I want us to decide that one lousy warrior move now. We will have additional info before we have to decide if we want to SIP. And that Info could very well make your whole discussion invalid.

You cant be serious that the decission to move the warrior north or southwest is worth one aditional week of our time, after you had a month allready to reflect on that!
 
I agree that the move SW is the better move but there is no reason to get too ansy about moving the game along. We have plenty of time. With that said, once we have the save in hand, our resident fog-gazer , Shaandore, should take a close look and report back anything that looks helpful in the decision. Again we have plenty of time so lets not rush the opening.
 
For anyone with little or no SGOTM experience, be aware that if you open the save and accidentally move something or do something, it is done and we as a team have to live with it. AlanH's recommendation is that unless you are the active player, then don't even open the save. This is a bit extreme but if you are not 1000% sure that you won't make a mistake then best to go with that recommendation.
AlanH also has issues with test games as they often make people think they are in the test game and they are really in the actual save. I tried to make the test game as noticeable as possible but please do be careful! There are no do-overs here.
 
There is no guarantee that my fog gazing is good, but I will definitely take a look and ctrl+arrow+zoom around. Can we do camera flying?

@BSPollux
I have no SGOTM experience, but recent SGOTM threads show that the problem comes when everybody has RL things to do, and the game stops, the active player gets no response, etc. The best way to go around this is to save 15 minutes every day to look at the forum even when you are super tired, your cat is dying and your children are shouting, etc., to keep the discussion and the game going, and also to not to get into a situation where you drop the line and need to read 10 pages to get back into the game. The early game enthusiasm usually lasts at least until t50 :)

@all: It would be a good idea to pause the save as soon as we load it. It is the pause button on the keyboard IIRC?!
 
I believe the camera flying is not allowed.
 
@all: It would be a good idea to pause the save as soon as we load it. It is the pause button on the keyboard IIRC?!

It is the pause button, but I'm not a believer in pausing the game - it leads to moves being queued up when you don't expect them, and they happen right away when you unpause. Of course, if it's team policy to pause before uploading, I'll bow to that.
 
In general we stay away from the pause button as a team.
 
I'm not sure I've ever paused a game... I don't even have a pause button!

I'd probably send the warrior SW, but he'd have to find something real special to move that way. Not sure why having a high food city is a bad idea, but if everyone is sold on the SIP, at least we're out of the gate quick. I would like to run a few tests this weekend (maybe some tonight) before we move or settle, though.
 
I'm here!
Alright, things start to be warm.
I updated the first page, but for now the roster is just a list of the team members in strict alphabetical order.

Some recommendation: please read trhe rules carefully, our team rules and the game rules, linked in the same post. Before to post any question in the Maintenance thread, please ask here. This is my 15th SG and i think i can answer to any question about rules.

@BSPollux
Spoiler :
BTW, BSPollux (pollux from now on) IMHO you was too picky in your answer to AlanH: while it's true that a date it's not the same all around the world, Alan's answer was clear. Pleae don't forget that CFC is an American site, thus the dates must be intended as any of their time zones. In any case, UTC -6 is the 21st in all the world, except maybe the Pacific.


Some more on the team: unless i'm blind, i noticed that Folket did not posted here. Tomorrow i'll send a PM to AlanH asking to contact him, maybe he does not know what to do.

Now, we need a volunteer for the first TS: 21 turns, where he has mostly to move the warrior and hit enter. FYI, the opening turn is turn 0, thus he will actually play 21 turns. The save to be posted (uploaded to the CFC server) has to be on turn 20.

Later on the game. I noticed many good ideas and a nice discussion here, but i abstained to comment. I'd like to have more infos (at least about the land) before to start to seriously think to a plan.

For now, i think that the best move for the warrior is 1N. If there were hills South, we can see them. The land is flat there. Definitely settle on coast and move the Capital once we have a good city inland or anywhere else. that site is terrible. The options are... let's wait to see what the warrior see :)
 
So ran a new test. I choose to settle 2E instead of 2E1S because there were more land tile and it still got the hill and the fish.

So Research:

Fishing(why settle next to fish and not get this) > Pottery>Writing>Alpha (57) >Poly>Priest>CoL

Capital Build:
Worker (16)>WB(30)>warrior>Lib>settler>Warrior>Worker>Archer>Oracle(Lost on T70)

T19 - Warrior killed by a lion

Trades: Myst, Mining, Hunting, AH, Archery

Bottom Line: Lost Oracle on T70 with 9 turns left


I don't think that we can plan on anything after T65-67 for the oracle. I think we can trim Currency to meet that goal but it will be tight and we will have to forgo any distractions in the race there.

My initial thoughts are SIP unless warrior reveals something. Research directly to Alpha. Hope and pray we can trade to backfill most everything. Try to get BW in somewhere to chop the oracle (maybe) and steal IW by T90. That would be my optimal path so far.
 
@BLubmuz
Spoiler :
I'm not sure if you got what I was aiming for, but discussing it any further makes no sense, so lets forget about it. But: the link in your signoff about the new banned exploid doesnt work for me. shows a 'not found' msg in the forum.


One Question about the team rules: What is 'ppp'?
 
@BLubmuz
Spoiler :
I'm not sure if you got what I was aiming for, but discussing it any further makes no sense, so lets forget about it. But: the link in your signoff about the new banned exploid doesnt work for me. shows a 'not found' msg in the forum.


One Question about the team rules: What is 'ppp'?

Pre-Play Plan
 
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