SGOTM 16 - Fifth Element

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

Now SIP
(chopping like mad)

Warrior - worker - warrior - worker - Stonehenge(48) - worker - settler - Oracle(63) -Library(64) -Settler(68)

Pottery - Myth- mining - bronze - meditation - priest - writing - Code of laws (free) - whatever

First great person: Turn 75 (with scientists points from Library it leads to 80%GP 20%GS)

It would give us (most likely) the confuzianism shrine by turn 75 as well as two worker, two settlers and the library before turn 70. The forrests would fall, most of them, but the capital would provide quite a nice commercial output with all the rivers and the shrine.

The two settlers could each be accompanied by a worker and be developed nicely, given theres just some usefull land around.

I think the comment I recall was about the need for Stonehenge. Other than that, I think CoL is a good sling. I'm more of a "worker first" guy, but having that warrior out scouting isn't a bad idea, so long as we keep him on hills and in forests.

 

[Shaandore]

No reason to postpone research: better start with a well thought and shared plan.

The reason that we can get multipliers on those beakers is a good reason itself IMO.
But if we don't postpone, at least let me SIP so we can see our cap's BFC. If there is a commerce or food resorce (there are 6 invisible tiles in BFC that could have a resource) then it completely changes our plans. (And I still think that it is likely that we have something to go with that dry corn.) It would be better to know for certain now on t0 than running 2/3 of our tests with the wrong setup.

On Page3 I posted two tests, one of them was this very simple CoL via Oracle thing:

Spoiler :

Now SIP
(chopping like mad)

Warrior - worker - warrior - worker - Stonehenge(48) - worker - settler - Oracle(63) -Library(64) -Settler(68)

Pottery - Myth- mining - bronze - meditation - priest - writing - Code of laws (free) - whatever

First great person: Turn 75 (with scientists points from Library it leads to 80%GP 20%GS)

It would give us (most likely) the confuzianism shrine by turn 75 as well as two worker, two settlers and the library before turn 70. The forrests would fall, most of them, but the capital would provide quite a nice commercial output with all the rivers and the shrine.

The two settlers could each be accompanied by a worker and be developed nicely, given theres just some usefull land around.

Last time I posted this it didnt get any attention. If you think this start is useless please give me a short explanation why, else I'll end with suggesting things that you hate all over again.

Great tests. Don't get disheartened so easily! This will be a long game probably with heated discussions. You have to understand that forum communication is far from perfect. If you feel lack of attention, or insulted by someone's post, count to 10 first, because it is very likely that the origin of the problem is our method of communication itself.

On topic: I wonder how much better we could do with worker first and no stonehenge. I guess t60-t61 would be possible, which is pretty safe.

@ZPV: Monarchy is a really good idea. I have always been wondering why people don't choose it as oracle freebie. I understand that it costs less, but in most cases it is more useful than MC. If we don't have happy resources around, then I could definitely stand behind that.

 

[BLubmuz]

@ Shaan: if we are agreed on SIP i don't see any reason to not SIP, start any research and any build, post a screenie and restart the discussion from there.

@ Pollux: no, any test and any possible path is interesting. I've seen many posts - and many good ideas - about the opening and the grand strategy, but i abstained to comment on those matters for the same reason you're complaining. It's not that your idea did not deserved a comment, it's that it was buried by 2 or 3 pages of posts. I promised to myself to re-read all the posts on those arguments and comment, but i was busy. I promise i will summarize all the ideas in 24 hours.

 

[BSPollux]

T
On topic: I wonder how much better we could do with worker first and no stonehenge. I guess t60-t61 would be possible, which is pretty safe.

I built stonehenge because I had nothing else to build. Instead of that there would have been warriors or barracks or granary, workers or settlers would have denied growth, library was not yet possible.

So no, leaving out stonehenge would not get us to oracle any quicker. If you want to do that, get us extra commerce to speed up research. So IF you think theres something in the BFC we dont see yet, then you think this will be done quicker

@Blubmuz: no worries Im not yet complaining, that might have sounded worse then intended. Im just a little unsure here right now.

 

[Shaandore]

I'm quite busy today but I could just settle without ending the turn (so do as Blubmuz suggested) tonight at about ten o'clock GMT+2. So if somebody has strong arguments against SIP, don't hesitate to post them until then.

Blubmuz, unclethrill, ZPV, Mastiff of Ar, BSPollux and myself we seem to agree on SIP if I'm reading the posts right.

Meow, are you around?
any news about Folket?
It is bad news if we are already down to 6 posters.

 

[BSPollux]

I am no fan of SIP but I gave up fighting it because people seemed to agree against it and I wanted to be productive.

 

[ZPV]

The main reason I didn't comment on that was that testing didn't seem necessary to tell whether or not a CoL slingshot was possible.

On your particular moves, these are the changes I'd make:
We want our first great person to be a GS to build an Academy. That puts a premium on fast Writing, and also because libraries are just so powerful.
There are very few situations where you want to go warrior-worker. Worker first is stronger because you get your resources improved sooner.
Stonehenge is not worth very much to us: it costs a lot of hammers to give us free monuments in our cities, but our borders already pop free because we are creative. We certainly need to be building something more useful, to justify chopping most of our forests before Mathematics.

 

[ZPV]

@ZPV: Monarchy is a really good idea. I have always been wondering why people don't choose it as oracle freebie. I understand that it costs less, but in most cases it is more useful than MC. If we don't have happy resources around, then I could definitely stand behind that.

The main reason is that the AI will trade Monarchy at a monopoly.

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

@ Shan & Pollux - I'm no big fan of SIP. It seems more like a lack of other viable options. It's obvious from the warrior there isn't anything south of us, and we've talked over fish like we're at a sushi bar. It's more of a SIP > Fish City argument.

@ Pollux - If we have BW early enough, barracks is a good option to keep the warriors alive against barbs. SH is okay for the CP points, but I wouldn't chop to get it.

 

[Shaandore]

I am no fan of SIP but I gave up fighting it because people seemed to agree against it and I wanted to be productive.

@ Shan & Pollux - I'm no big fan of SIP. It seems more like a lack of other viable options. It's obvious from the warrior there isn't anything south of us, and we've talked over fish like we're at a sushi bar. It's more of a SIP > Fish City argument.

@ Pollux - If we have BW early enough, barracks is a good option to keep the warriors alive against barbs. SH is okay for the CP points, but I wouldn't chop to get it.

It is not a super capital from what we can see right now, but the question is if you agree that we should SIP. I just don't want to move too soon or against team consensus. What I'm waiting for is a "green light" from one or two of you guys

 

[ZPV]

One more thing: it looks like a barb city has already been founded, since the domination population threshold is 25% rather than 100%.
The width of the health bar of our warrior indicates that the barb unit is very powerful - something like a Mech Infantry or Modern Armour. Regardless, it'll be easy to kill with fighters and cruise missiles (on carriers and submarines if need be).

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

I also wonder what our other two members might think, so I hope they come around. ZPV gave a good argument on why not to move for the fish, he seems to know game mechanics well, and if not fish, why are we moving?

It may be a crappy reason to SIP, but unless we're going to wander around searching, it seems to be the most logical choice.

MF

 

[unclethrill]

Green light from me for SIP. And as far as research, I have never known you could delay but it seems to be the logical choice if we can do it without penalty. I say SIP, if something super special is visible then stop to show the team otherwise, get the screenies of demographics on t1 and post all of that and we can go from there.

 

[Shaandore]

I will play in a minute.

 

[unclethrill]

I will play in a minute.

Good Luck! Make us all PROUD!!

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

Good Luck! Make us all PROUD!!

You can do it!

 

[Shaandore]

Only bad news.

NOTHING in BFC. Crappy land all around.

The worst of all: I did as unclethrill said, so I ended the turn to be able to post the demogarphics screenshots from t1. What I forgot was that the first build will get hammers in it by doing that. So I put 5 hammers into a worker. I'm very sorry. I didn't intend to move against team consensus. That is what I get for not waiting for enough green lights and not posting a clear PPP.

I saved and quitted before I do something stupid, but I need to find my courage to open the save and take the demographics screenshot. Until then, here are the screenshots from t0.

I'm sorry that I couldn't make you proud

 

[Shaandore]

Just the screenshot and the save.

Edit: I'm a in a bad mood now and feel quite tired, and I won't have time to update the test game until very late tomorrow. So if somebody has the time until then, please do it.

 

[BSPollux]

Am I the only one who thinks this smells funny?
The capital is way to bad to be true.
This has to be intentional, possibly the funny thing with this game is that every city is better then our capital? Anti-Paris?

I'd like you to change your scouting plan and get that warrior west quicker by avoiding the step southeast. I'd realy like to know if we see floodplains surrounded by hills there. Maybe we want to build a settler asap and kickstart the REX? (worker-warrior-warrior-settler maybe?)

Just an idea, because there must be a reason for that crappy capital

Edit:
It would fit the leader as well: a ton of important buildings are cheaper plus culture bonus. A REX approach leading to many medium-sized citys might actualy be the master-plan here. Its just intuition, but what do you think?

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

@ Shan - Don't kick yourself on the worker... I prefer him first.

@ Pollux - Yeah, that's really bad. But with two unforested hills, maybe there's bronze and/or iron? Perhaps we find some horses, too. There must be some reward for not going for the fish... I might even go worker > warrior > settler to get the REX going.